PLXTO

In the 21st century, anti-Zionism means anti-Semitism

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Every time franky lie and slander me I will display his anti semitic and terror apologist postings


franky likes to lie about my post how about showing terbites his posts where you cite sources link to terrorists and known anti-semites and defend anti-semitic hate crimes against jews
What was it you said earlier on this very same page?


dude quit repeating yourself it is annoying and only shows you have nothing to say


What does it mean when someone keeps repeating themselves in an argument?

Lance Appolonaire

they are parroting memorized talking points and its the only thing they have to offer.
they don’t know the topic well so they can’t come up with anything independently, only regurgitate what they’ve memorized from others.
stop the discussion… they aren’t prepared and its a waste of your time
Meanwhile, Netanyahu just announced that his government's primary goal is more settler colonization of what could have been Palestine.

Netanyahu gov’t says West Bank settlement expansion top priority
Israel’s incoming far-right government made the announcement a day before it is set to be sworn into office.


What do you think Palestinians should do in the face of their land being stolen from them by force by an occupying army ruling them through apartheid?
What do you think it means when Netanyahu says this is an 'exclusive Jewish right'?
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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The UN investigated and says the protests were civilian and legit.
...
And a small number of the people were violent, throwing firebombs or shooting at border police. Those people were legitimate targets (even though you deny that militant Palestinians actually exist).
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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I assume, since you posted this, you must agree with his assessment, that Israel is headed towards self destruction caused by their own policies.
...
Yes, if Israel continues down the path the far right wants, it will be self-destructive just like the Palestinian and Arab leadership have generally been.


Sadly all you want to do is quote mine things that sound good but miss the entire point of his writing. Of course you're happy to point out his criticism of the current government of Israel while completely ignoring that in his view, Israel is becoming more like Arab countries like the one he was born in. His criticism of Israel's current leaders is a desire to have them improve, not using the fact that Israel is moving towards what Hamas and the PA are (which you never criticize) as a reason to delegitimize Israel's existence.

The Palestinians’ inability to act ethically has hurt their own cause more than it has hurt Israel, and the new Israeli direction is likely to hurt Israel more than it will hurt the Palestinians. The Palestinians have long needed to be told this, but any warnings to this effect have fallen on deaf ears. Now the upcoming Israeli government is equally ignoring warnings, even when the warnings come from Israelis themselves.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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When Palestinians target civilians its terrorism.
When settlers are armed and backed by the IDF they are no longer civilians, as noted by the UN.
...
More of your terror supporting trash that flies directly in the face of your beloved Amnesty.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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And a small number of the people were violent, throwing firebombs or shooting at border police. Those people were legitimate targets (even though you deny that militant Palestinians actually exist).
The UN says that Israel was not justified to use lethal force or live fire on civilian protesters who were behind a prison wall.
Israel intentionally targeted and shot thousands of civilians, crippling them for life with illegal butterfly bullets.

That was terrorism, targeting civilians for political purpose.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yes, if Israel continues down the path the far right wants, it will be self-destructive just like the Palestinian and Arab leadership have generally been.
The Palestinian leadership is not in power, they are under military occupation.
But I agree, Israel is on a self destructive path.
Lets hope BDS and international pressure gives us a peaceful resolution with full rights for all.

Netanyahu just declared full on apartheid, settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing to be official policy.

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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More of your terror supporting trash that flies directly in the face of your beloved Amnesty.
I fully support Amnesty taking all of their reports on Israelis and Palestinians to the ICC for investigation.
Will you support both sides being held to the law equally?
Of course not.

Amnesty also notes that settler attacks are state backed.
There were over 1000 settler terrorist attacks in 2022.

You do back Amnesty reports, don't you?

Military incursions, closures, state-backed settler attacks, home demolitions, and destruction of property are all manifestations of Israel’s apartheid system

Heba Morayef, Regional Director for the Middle East and North Africa

 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
at Tel Aviv Airport a jewish woman and a muslim woman praying on the same carpet







Israel has maintained government-sponsored sharia courts since that nation's founding, despite the fact that Israel considers itself the Jewish state and it has continuously been locked in a state of war with many of its Arab neighbors. Israel's Islamic courts are descended from the Ottoman Empire's millet system, in which each religious community lived by its own rules. So, today, when a Muslim couple gets married in Israel, the marriage must be performed according to binding Muslim religious law, and, similarly, when a Jewish couple is married, Jewish religious law applies.



Israeli family law is in the hands of the religious courts, and has been so since the creation of the country. Everyone has heard of the travesty that is the rabbinical court system, but few people realize that there is also a publicly-funded Sharia court system: some 19% of the population of Israel is Muslim, and naturally they are not expected to have rabbis marry and divorce them. There are eight Sharia courts in Israel: in Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa, Be’er Sheva, Nazareth, Acre, Taybeh, and Baka Al Garabiya.

Why does Israel maintain such courts? Because family law is mostly out of the reach of the civil courts. You can’t have a civil marriage in Israel. You can’t even have a civil divorce, even assuming you were married elsewhere. Why not? Because in a civil court, the government will have to acknowledge “miscegenation”, marriages between Jews and non-Jews. Most Jew are opposed to that, sometimes violently – the 50 rabbis who yesterday demanded that Jews will refrain from renting apartments to non-Jews based their demand, inter alia, on the fear of “miscegenation” – yet nobody wanted a Nuremberg-like laws. That would be hard to explain away. The result was the empowerment of the religious courts, who preceded Israel, by the young state. Since religious courts would not permit intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews, and would demand conversion, and since wishing to marry a Jew would automatically disqualify a gentile from conversion to Judaism, this seemed like a neat solution.




Since the establishment of the State, the Sharia courts have been under the responsibility of the Ministry of Religious Affairs until they were transferred to the purview of the Ministry of Justice on February 21st 2001.
The Sharia courts have existed since the Ottoman Empire, when they served as the court of the state.
The British Mandate left the legal situation that preceded it subject to the changes it introduced, and thus the Sharia courts remained in place, but their powers were limited to matters of personal status of Muslims only.


The powers of the Sharia courts
The powers of the Sharia courts were determined in the Proclamation of the King and his Council for the Land of Israel for 1922 – 1947, in accordance with the Procedure of the Muslim Religious Courts Law for the year 1333 H., as follows:

Matters pertaining to marriage – proof of marriage, marriage permit, marriage confirmation, wedding gift and dowry.
Matters pertaining to divorce – proof of divorce, arbitration, separation and annulment of marriage.
Alimony – wife, son, father and grandfather.
Guardianship and legal competency.
Child support – visitation and hospitality procedures.
Genealogy of minors – paternity.
Management of assets of missing and incompetent persons.
Obedience – domestic peace.
Waqf – endowments.
Prevention of domestic violence – the Prevention of Domestic Violence Law, 5751 – 1991.
Conversion to Islam – the Religious Group (Conversion) Ordinance.
Financial relations between spouses - the Financial Relations Between Spouses Law.

 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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The Palestinian leadership is not in power,...
Except in Gaza and parts of the West bank.

But whatever you have to say to infantilize Palestinians and justify terrorism.


p.s. You should be excited with the talk Netanyahu will annex the West Bank. You'll get what you want with Palestinians forced to become Israeli.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Voting For: China, Russia, Iran, North Korea
Voting Against: Canada, Germany, UK, Australia.

Good to know what side you're on.



With all the shit going on in the world, it shows a clear bias to investigate systemic discrimination in Israel.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,549
22,170
113

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,549
22,170
113
Voting For: China, Russia, Iran, North Korea
Voting Against: Canada, Germany, UK, Australia.

Good to know what side you're on.



With all the shit going on in the world, it shows a clear bias to investigate systemic discrimination in Israel.
Yes, with all the shit going on in the world this is not only still going on but getting worse, with more killings, more colonization and a more extreme government.

The liberal party is wrong on this issue, the greens and ndp stand on the right side.

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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More of the same as the new year starts.



 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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The UN says ...
The people hired by the human rights abusers council because of their pre-stated bias may have said that and it's amusing that you're happy to swallow their propaganda.

And thanks for posting that screenshot of the UN vote.
Voting For: China, Russia, Iran, North Korea
Voting Against: Canada, Germany, UK, Australia.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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p.s. Your 'news' stories are pathetic.

First off, what exactly is "Christian Land"? I thought you were all for equal rights but now you're saying that there are places that can only belong to Christians. Especially funny that your own article says the land was leased to the JNF for 99 years and the specific property mentioned has had extensive legal oversight about the validity of the ownership by a Jewish group.

And then you go on with your racist crap about Jews visiting Al Aqsa/Temple Mount as coordinated by the Islamic WAQF is an invasion. You are parroting extremist Islamic talking points just to ratchet up violence.

Everything you post shows quite clearly you have zero interest in equal rights.
 

Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
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Zionism cannot produce a just peace. Only external pressure can end the Israeli apartheid.

I grew up in a Zionist household, spent 12 years in a Zionist youth movement, lived for four years in Israel, and have friends and family who served in the Israeli Defense Forces. When that is your world, it’s hard to see apartheid as it’s happening in front of you.

I grew up in France, in a Jewish community where unconditional love and support for Israel were the norm. The term Zionism, the movement for the establishment and support of a Jewish state in present-day Palestine, wasn’t even used because that’s all we knew. Jews had been nearly wiped out by pogroms and repeated holocausts, and a Jewish state was the only way to keep us safe. Antisemitism wasn’t just a fact of history; we all experienced it in our daily lives.

Zionism is rooted in trauma and fear. It’s about survival and love for the Jewish people. But like any other ethnic nationalism, Zionism establishes a hierarchy: It’s about prioritizing our safety and well-being, even at the expense of others. It relies on an alternate historical narrative that justifies the occupation and rationalizes the status quo. And it cannot produce a just peace on its own.

The Israeli occupation of the West Bank is, by every definition, apartheid: two legal systems for two ethnic groups. If a Jew and an Arab commit the exact same crime in the West Bank, the Jew will face a civil court; the Arab, a military court. But most Israelis can’t fathom this as unjust. They fight the term “apartheid” because they genuinely believe that the discrimination is legitimate and a matter of self-defense.

My Jewish community was fed a historical narrative divorced from reality: That Palestine was a largely uninhabited piece of desert before we settled it. That during what we call Israel’s War of Independence, Palestinians were not expelled by Jewish militias but instead willingly left their homes to make room for Arab armies to “push all the Jews into the sea, dead or alive.” That Arab leaders were never interested in compromising, turning down peace offers from Israel and the United States one after the other. The list goes on.

Those assertions have long been debunked — for example, by a former Israeli prime minister recounting his rolein expelling Palestinians during the 1948 war, and by historians showing that most of the land in Palestine was cultivated by Arab farmers before Zionist migration. But when your entire world buys into that narrative — friends and family, the media you consume, the organizations you join and, if you grow up in Israel, your educational system — that is your reality. It’s a false one, disconnected from historical facts, but it is yours.

Compounding this alternate reality are more than a hundred years of conflict that have dehumanized Palestinians in the eyes of Israeli Jews. When the IDF bombs Gaza and kills large numbers of civilians, including children, Israelis think that Palestinians should blame themselves: because they didn’t accept past peace offers, because they tolerate armed groups in their midst, because they “teach their children to hate Jews.” We tell ourselves that at the end of the day, Israel is merely defending itself and that there is simply no alternative.

The same thought process justifies the Gaza blockade, the military checkpoints in the West Bank, the separation wall and the bulldozing of homes in Palestinian communities. Palestinians’ pain is either fake or self-inflicted; it is not as real as ours.

Of course, some Israelis reject these narratives and actively campaign for Palestinian liberation. But those make up a minority. The average Israeli doesn’t contend with what it means to live out an occupation on a daily basis: having to submit to foreign troops at checkpoints, requiring a permit for any and all matters from a government that doesn’t represent you, knowing that soldiers can invade your home or seize your property with no accountability.

The only thing that can bring about Palestinian liberation is if the cost of the occupation begins to outweigh its benefits to Israel. That would require, as it did for other apartheids and occupations, massive external pressure. In South Africa, international sanctions, an arms embargo and a global boycott forced the collapse of the racist regime. The brutal occupation of East Timor by Indonesia was ended by a global solidarity movement and international pressure. In the American South, it was legislation and Supreme Court decisions that imposed equal rights and ended the racial segregation of Jim Crow.

In all those cases, the dominant group was so entrenched in its own historical narrative and so disconnected from the humanity of their “enemies” that only outside coercion could move them to a just solution. This is true of Israel as well.

To end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, that coercion could take the form of consumer boycott of Israeli goods, corporate boycotts of Israeli technology, and sanctions by Israel’s main trade partners and political supporters, the United States and the European Union.

An apartheid state will not willingly change itself. Outside measures are the only ones that can meaningfully push Israel toward ending the occupation.
 
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