MLB Playoffs

[Toronto Passions]

A friend of mine told me a little while ago about the disparity between measuring the velocity of the ball coming out of the hand and crossing the plate. And of course what is being sold to us as the absolute truth of what we are being informed on how hard a pitcher throws.

Long before there was Nolan Ryan there was Bob Feller. https://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/57040/tbt-how-fast-was-bob-fellers-fastball

I’m going to read that article. I’ve skimmed through it just now, it looks great. I know about the Bob Feller motorcycle thing where they used to try to time pitches with a motorcycle zipping by to get an estimate of how hard he threw. “Ummmm that looks to be about 100” lol.

I remember in the 1990 NLCS and W.S. I developed a real fascination with Rob Dibble from the Reds. I have never seen anything like that. He was hitting 101mph with regularity, and his catcher would take off his mitt and shake his hand in complete painful agony after every fastball and between pitches. And I remember watching him go back to the dugout after an inning, and really observing his hand and the pain it’s just endured.

Rob Dibble was a complete jackass, but whatever the F that was, was a real 101. I have never seen that type of reaction from a catcher. Not quite like that.

Philip

 

[The Oracle]

I’m going to read that article. I’ve skimmed through it just now, it looks great. I know about the Bob Feller motorcycle thing where they used to try to time pitches with a motorcycle zipping by to get an estimate of how hard he threw. “Ummmm that looks to be about 100” lol.

I remember in the 1990 NLCS and W.S. I developed a real fascination with Rob Dibble from the Reds. I have never seen anything like that. He was hitting 101mph with regularity, and his catcher would take off his mitt and shake his hand in complete painful agony after every fastball and between pitches. And I remember watching him go back to the dugout after an inning, and really observing his hand and the pain it’s just endured.

Rob Dibble was a complete jackass, but whatever the F that was, was a real 101. I have never seen that type of reaction from a catcher. Not quite like that.

Philip

Lou Pinella wasn't a big fan of Dibble if I remember correctly.

 

[bemeup]

I’m going to read that article. I’ve skimmed through it just now, it looks great. I know about the Bob Feller motorcycle thing where they used to try to time pitches with a motorcycle zipping by to get an estimate of how hard he threw. “Ummmm that looks to be about 100” lol.

I remember in the 1990 NLCS and W.S. I developed a real fascination with Rob Dibble from the Reds. I have never seen anything like that. He was hitting 101mph with regularity, and his catcher would take off his mitt and shake his hand in complete painful agony after every fastball and between pitches. And I remember watching him go back to the dugout after an inning, and really observing his hand and the pain it’s just endured.

Rob Dibble was a complete jackass, but whatever the F that was, was a real 101. I have never seen that type of reaction from a catcher. Not quite like that.

Philip

Dibble gave his catcher’s sore hands and gave his manager, Lou Piniella, a chapped ass.

 

[Toronto Passions]

lol that brawl looked like a Monday Night Raw backstage fight. There's an interesting documentary on YouTube telling the story of the Nasty Boys and 1990 Reds. Paul O'neil really talks about Dibble and how heavy his ball was I believe I recall.

Rob Dibble was a super unorthodox high leg kick, steroid raging meathead. But man that guy could bring it.

Philip

 

[tml]

I love it. You study this the way I study pitching mechanics and velocity. Goddamn guns are juiced. No more speed of crossing the plate (classic ray gun). Now it’s the speed of when it leaves the hand. The 1990s and before, I truly believe the readings were 6 to 8 miles per hour less than what they are doing today. Today’s 97 mph, was 90 in 1990. This means in 1986 when Roger Clemens was being gunned at 98 mph, today that same fast ball would’ve been anywhere from 104 to 106. I truly believe that. In the Guinness Book, how it used to say (not sure what it says now) Nolan Ryan was the record holder 100.7 i think it was…. that same fastball could’ve been anywhere from 106 to 108 today. Mark Wholers at 96 in 96, would’ve been well over 100 today.

etc etc etc

Hell even Vida Blue and a young Bob Welsh threw absolute gasoline. OK just ignore me lol once I get started on this, I can go on forever. I was a pitcher when I was younger that never quite got my mechanics in order. But I know what was working and when and why it was working.

Philip

Finally, I come across someone who shares my opinion on modern day "radar guns". For years I've been saying this to my nephew(who was a decent pitcher) and just got blank looks from him. Another pitcher that comes to mind is Dwight Gooden.

 

[tml]

I prefer yesteryear.......

Wow!!!! This film must be as valuable as his baseball card. I wonder if the colour is original or artificial.

 

[Toronto Passions]

The story of the 1990 Reds.

Philip

 

[Toronto Passions]

Finally, I come across someone who shares my opinion on modern day "radar guns". For years I've been saying this to my nephew(who was a decent pitcher) and just got blank looks from him. Another pitcher that comes to mind is Dwight Gooden.

I'm totally with you on that. Oh my god a 1985 Dr K, would have been throwing 104 today at least. It's probably the same tools that are used to record the speed, but the display is different on what is captured. I think it was right around 1995 or 1996, Bluejay telecasts were showing a trajectory recapture of pitches thrown, and it was a slow motion trajectory recapture from when it left the pitchers hand, right to when it would cross the plate. It would usually lose between 6 to 8 mph velocity by the time it reached the plate. lol I feel like I've talked about this very same thing in this very form a few times over the years.


What's that old expression? Chicks dig the long ball? Well TV networks love velocity as well. If a higher numbers exists from the time it leaves the pitchers hand, then that would be what they show. Just like 20 years later, digital photography has everyone forgetting about film, and the depth and the warm textures. Or the big sounding depth of the way analogue music is mixed, as opposed to digital. Just the same, people forget about the way pitching velocity was measured.


Philip

 

[tml]

I'm totally with you on that. Oh my god a 1985 Dr K, would have been throwing 104 today at least. It's probably the same tools that are used to record the speed, but the display is different on what is captured. I think it was right around 1995 or 1996, Bluejay telecasts were showing a trajectory recapture of pitches thrown, and it was a slow motion trajectory recapture from when it left the pitchers hand, right to when it would cross the plate. It would usually lose between 6 to 8 mph velocity by the time it reached the plate. lol I feel like I've talked about this very same thing in this very form a few times over the years.


What's that old expression? Chicks dig the long ball? Well TV networks love velocity as well. If a higher numbers exists from the time it leaves the pitchers hand, then that would be what they show. Just like 20 years later, digital photography has everyone forgetting about film, and the depth and the warm textures. Or the big sounding depth of the way analogue music is mixed, as opposed to digital. Just the same, people forget about the way pitching velocity was measured.


Philip

I know this is off topic, but it addresses a point you made in your post.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-new...tage-cameras-in-developing-trend-150890053734

 

[Toronto Passions]

I know this is off topic, but it addresses a point you made in your post.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-new...tage-cameras-in-developing-trend-150890053734

Cool. I remember in early 2000s there
were die hard film photographers very adamant about the usage of film over digital. Same thing with music producers. I know a number of people involved in music. Adamant about the usage of an analogue board for mixing, as opposed to digital.

lol I couldn’t throw strikes more often than not…never had much of a curve ball, by the age of 18 hitters were just sitting on my one pitch pony show and timing me up. My mechanics were confused and all over the place most of the time. Sometimes by mistake, I discovered the source of true pitching power by accident. I’d find it and not be able to find it again. I understood how to generate torque way too late in life. But when I was 16, I was gunned in the mid 80s on a few occasions. This was in the 90s. How excited am I to know that today I’d be “throwing in the 90s.” Lmao.

Philip

 

[tml]

Cool. I remember in early 2000s there
were die hard film photographers very adamant about the usage of film over digital. Same thing with music producers. I know a number of people involved in music. Adamant about the usage of an analogue board for mixing, as opposed to digital.

lol I couldn’t throw strikes more often than not…never had much of a curve ball, by the age of 18 hitters were just sitting on my one pitch pony show and timing me up. My mechanics were confused and all over the place most of the time. Sometimes by mistake, I discovered the source of true pitching power by accident. I’d find it and not be able to find it again. I understood how to generate torque way too late in life. But when I was 16, I was gunned in the mid 80s on a few occasions. This was in the 90s. How excited am I to know that today I’d be “throwing in the 90s.” Lmao.

Philip

Sounds like you needed a good coach.

 

[Darts]

Stay away from radar guns.

The untimely death of Gary Carter and what we can learn from what happened to the “kid” « TheFullertonInformer.com

Health risks for police using radar guns? – The Morning Call (mcall.com)

 

[Toronto Passions]

Sounds like you needed a good coach.

Amateur baseball coaching sucked in the 90s. Canadian amateur coaching in the 90s was horrendous. Nobody could explain properly the way your legs stretch your hips, to create torque, to give you arm speed. Absolutely nobody had the comprehension of this. Let alone be able to explain. Anyone who played baseball at that time can attest to the big coaching words being “drop and drive.” That is a complete contradiction and does absolutely nothing to create arm speed. All that accomplishes is getting your arm to fall behind. Nothing working in unison. Coil and uncoil is a way better way of explaining what it supposed to happen.

omg okay enough….proper baseball coaching etiquette, and a little of my bitterness has hijacked this thread. Lol.

Philip

 

[ETH]

I love it. You study this the way I study pitching mechanics and velocity. Goddamn guns are juiced. No more speed of crossing the plate (classic ray gun). Now it’s the speed of when it leaves the hand. The 1990s and before, I truly believe the readings were 6 to 8 miles per hour less than what they are doing today. Today’s 97 mph, was 90 in 1990. This means in 1986 when Roger Clemens was being gunned at 98 mph, today that same fast ball would’ve been anywhere from 104 to 106. I truly believe that. In the Guinness Book, how it used to say (not sure what it says now) Nolan Ryan was the record holder 100.7 i think it was…. that same fastball could’ve been anywhere from 106 to 108 today. Mark Wholers at 96 in 96, would’ve been well over 100 today.

etc etc etc

Hell even Vida Blue and a young Bob Welsh threw absolute gasoline. OK just ignore me lol once I get started on this, I can go on forever. I was a pitcher when I was younger that never quite got my mechanics in order. But I know what was working and when and why it was working.

Philip

Yah, but hitters as mediocre as Rajai Davis have hit 100mph pitches for home runs (or mid 90s pitches going by 90s radar guns... if true, ofc). Happened in game 7 of the 2016 WS.

What matters now more than velocity is spin rate, with Bauer blowing the lid off the most recent form of cheating, with teams creating their own chemistry labs in order to make the stickiest illegal substances that'll get the RPMs into un-hittable territory.

 

[Toronto Passions]

What matters now more than velocity is spin rate, with Bauer blowing the lid off the most recent form of cheating, with teams creating their own chemistry labs in order to make the stickiest illegal substances that'll get the RPMs into un-hittable territory.

Have you ever seen Gerrit Cole pitching highlights before this scandal broke loose? His ball used to dance around like a cartoon. Giving “rising fastball” a new meaning. Never mind un-hittable….. His slider was unthinkable.

Philip

 

[princekwekua]

For the first time since 1950, there will be no African American in the fall classic. No Say Hey Kid Willie Mays, Mr. October Reggie Jackson, Mr. November Derek Jeter, Wizard of Oz Ozzie Smith, "We are family" Willie Stargell and Dave Parker, Joe Morgan, The Doc Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry. Bob Gibson. African American youth going into short career football and largely deserting baseball. Sad to see.

 

[ETH]

For the first time since 1950, there will be no African American in the fall classic. No Say Hey Kid Willie Mays, Mr. October Reggie Jackson, Mr. November Derek Jeter, Wizard of Oz Ozzie Smith, "We are family" Willie Stargell and Dave Parker, Joe Morgan, The Doc Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry. Bob Gibson. African American youth going into short career football and largely deserting baseball. Sad to see.

Ugh, what about Michael Brantley, 2nd gen African-American baseball player… there may be others as well

plus overall there’re still loads of black players, they’re just all from South America now lol

 

[ETH]

Have you ever seen Gerrit Cole pitching highlights before this scandal broke loose? His ball used to dance around like a cartoon. Giving “rising fastball” a new meaning. Never mind un-hittable….. His slider was unthinkable.

Philip

The press conference where they asked him about this was epic lol

 

[Darts]

African American youth going into short career football and largely deserting baseball.

Also basketball.

 

[princekwekua]

How did MLB get to point where no African American players on a World Series roster isn't a surprise to many?

MLB teams once did the work of developing young players in their system. Not long after Curt Flood won the right of free agency for players and contracts began to rise, things started to change.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

Every baseball team has an academy in the Dominican Republic and the players they develop are not subject to the draft: they remain the property of the team. This is why there are so many players from the Dominican Republic in MLB.

The way to get to the big leagues in the US is now mostly through college where most blacks from poorer high schools dont qualify academically to enter. Now I know why American blacks are declining on MLB rosters.