The Democratic Science Fiction Agenda Thread

[Dutch Oven]

There's a real pattern emerging in the Democratic Party agenda, and it is that their positions are now often mirroring the plots and themes of classic science fiction movies and novels.

Some quick examples:

1. The campaign to eat bugs. Is this foreshadowing the classic film Soylent Green (that was one of the steps towards eating humans - see the novel the film was based on - Make Room, Make Room by Harry Harrison). Maybe the Democrats meant to title their core agenda as The Soylent Green New Deal?

2. The push for abortion up to the date of birth. In Logan's Run, you could live until you were 30. Is this an even bolder move, limiting life to the age of 0?

The plot lines that allude to 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World are too numerous to even mention.

I encourage other TERBites to add to this list.

Are the Democrats stealing their policy from dystopian science fiction?

Let's hear from the science fiction fans out there!

 

[JohnLarue]

There's a real pattern emerging in the Democratic Party agenda, and it is that their positions are now often mirroring the plots and themes of classic science fiction movies and novels.

Some quick examples:

1. The campaign to eat bugs. Is this foreshadowing the classic film Soylent Green (that was one of the steps towards eating humans - see the novel the film was based on - Make Room, Make Room by Harry Harrison). Maybe the Democrats meant to title their core agenda as The Soylent Green New Deal?

2. The push for abortion up to the date of birth. In Logan's Run, you could live until you were 30. Is this an even bolder move, limiting life to the age of 0?

The plot lines that allude to 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World are too numerous to even mention.

I encourage other TERBites to add to this list.

Are the Democrats stealing their policy from dystopian science fiction?

Let's hear from the science fiction fans out there!

expecting to displace Fossil Fuels with Wind & Solar is most certainly fiction
AGW is science fiction & its not based on real; science

 

[HungSowel]

Dutch thinks electricity is obsolete, Dutch also thinks that it is better to burn all the available carbon quickly so humans are forced to live in space.

 

[squeezer]

Lie to their simpleton base with far-fetched nonsense and bullshit
Old white men think they know what is best for women and their fetus
Punish veterans because they were embarrassed by Schumer and Manchin
Claims to have won the 2020 Election

Oh, sorry, I thought we were bringing up Republic Science Fiction, bullshit and nonsense.

 

[silentkisser]

There's a real pattern emerging in the Democratic Party agenda, and it is that their positions are now often mirroring the plots and themes of classic science fiction movies and novels.

Some quick examples:

1. The campaign to eat bugs. Is this foreshadowing the classic film Soylent Green (that was one of the steps towards eating humans - see the novel the film was based on - Make Room, Make Room by Harry Harrison). Maybe the Democrats meant to title their core agenda as The Soylent Green New Deal?

2. The push for abortion up to the date of birth. In Logan's Run, you could live until you were 30. Is this an even bolder move, limiting life to the age of 0?

The plot lines that allude to 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World are too numerous to even mention.

I encourage other TERBites to add to this list.

Are the Democrats stealing their policy from dystopian science fiction?

Let's hear from the science fiction fans out there!

As opposed to the GOP embracing history, like Italy in 1922, or Germany in 1933....

But, for works of pure fiction, I think basically everything you've said there is fiction....or you've been hitting the wacky tobaccy a little too hard. The campaign to eat bugs is not a Democrat thing. Yes, some might want that, but it isn't something the party is pushing.

As for late-term abortions....again, who the fuck is asking for this? The answer? Nobody. Now, there are occasionally medically necessary reasons to do a late-term abortion, usually because the fetus is either dead or not viable. Maybe we can say that the GOP is looking to embrace another work of fiction - The Handsmaid's Tale, with forced births and women being just baby machines....

The funny thing here is, these are all right-wing conspiracies. THE LEFT DON'T WANT YOU TO EAT HAMBURGERS!!! Sounds like a Tucker Carlson headline. Or to a sane person, a fever dream. To a Fox viewer? A real and present danger....

 

[kherg007]

Yes, these are hallucinations about some real things.
Many cultures eat insects. Insect products exist in food now. They are often an efficient formula of protein. In Singapore a company is growing actual chicken meat from actual chicken cells. Tastes like...chicken LOL. What if this becomes the norm? Sounds OK by me.
Wind and solar is supplementing the grid right now. Is it the only solution? No. But why not research renewable sources of energy? Maybe you'll discover how to store it so that it can be.
What happens in fox world is a kernel of truth is then distorted beyond its various nuances and then it takes on this cartoon version life and slung about all their networks and mocked. Exhibit A: no where does the green new deal say air travel will be banned. But opponents cite that all the time. Now, it could be inferred air travel might need to change. A kernel of truth. But not calling for banning air travel.

 

[JohnLarue]

]Many cultures eat insects. Insect products exist in food now. They are often an efficient formula of protein. In Singapore a company is growing actual chicken meat from actual chicken cells. Tastes like...chicken LOL. What if this becomes the norm? Sounds OK by me.

The issue is the loonie left will want to make it the norm & FORCE others to accept it via restricting the supply of real chicken

Wind and solar is supplementing the grid right now

What maybe 5-8% of total energy demand ?
Wind & solar have to have running FF generation backup as grid stability require a minimum frequency for when the wind does not blow & when the sun does not shine

Running FF generation as a back up !
A switch over from Wind / Solar to the back up must be instantaneous, so therefore the FF plant has to be burning
Therefore CO2 still produced

All wind and solar are doing is making electricity more expensive

. Is it the only solution?

Wind and solar are not a solution, they are a money pit

But why not research renewable sources of energy?

Billions have been spent on research into Wind & Solar over decades
even more on battery tech research (since 1800)

Now W & S projects are money pits for the taxpayer & electricity is getting priced out of reach for some

it so that it can be.

Not going to happen

What happens in fox world is a kernel of truth is then distorted beyond its various nuances and then it takes on this cartoon version life and slung about all their networks and mocked

.

you mean like your fantasy world of renewables replacing FF?

Exhibit A: no where does the green new deal say air travel will be banned. But opponents cite that all the time. Now, it could be inferred air travel might need to change. A kernel of truth. But not calling for banning air travel.

no it did not ban air travel
rather it called for the replacement of airplanes with high-speed trains, charging stations “everywhere'

again the lunatics plan would be to make air travel prohibitively expensive for the majority of the population
i,e, control other peoples behaviour

 

[kherg007]

I'll agree forcing people to eat insect is bad. But I'm aware of no one doing that.
I am aware of real meat grown in real factories that is less cruel and more energy efficient 15 years ago the idea was mocked. But research dollars are paying off.
The cost of alternate energy is way down. Due to research. China outpacing USA w solar. Will dominate the market. Canada subsidizes fossil fuels at a rate higher than renewables:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/oil-change-subsidies-1.6228679

I think it is clear carbon/fossil will be death over the long haul (through pollution, climate change, and/or propping up evil regimes like Russia and the saudis). I'm in favour of all alternate sources research, not just solar or wind, but hydrogen, fusion, etc etc. To stop funding research means the Chinese will develop all this and will make sure the west gets crushed by their dominance. It's how they roll.

 

[JohnLarue]

I'll agree forcing people to eat insect is bad. But I'm aware of no one doing that.

What part of ' "via restricting the supply" is confusing you ?

I am aware of real meat grown in real factories that is less cruel and more energy efficient 15 years ago the idea was mocked.

Real meat is grow by living animals , not in a factory

But research dollars are paying off.

if you call synthetic meat an achievement

less cruel

a value judgement of yours you feel should be imposed on others

The cost of alternate energy is way down

.
no where near cost competitive , still requires massive subsidies

Due to research.

due to subsidies

China outpacing USA w solar. Will dominate the market

.
ok, thats why they are increasing their coal usage

Canada subsidizes fossil fuels at a rate higher than renewables:

name the program , you can not

the cashflow is from oil companies to govt in the form of royalties, land leases and corp income tax
& the cashflow is massive

Who needs a windfall tax? Oil and gas companies poured $48 billion into government coffers this year, says RBC | Calgary Herald

I think it is clear carbon/fossil will be death over the long haul (through pollution, climate change, and/or propping up evil regimes like Russia and the saudis).

I think it is clear you really do not understand the global energy market

I'm in favour of all alternate sources research, not just solar or wind, but hydrogen, fusion, etc etc.

As long as someone else pays?

Hydrogen requires more energy to make than it produces, & it is extremely difficult to store and distribute.
Fusion ? nope, all the articles are filled with could, maybes, one day, hopefully... ec


You would not survive 2 months if FF were shut off tomorrow
two weeks if it were the winter

To stop funding research means the Chinese will develop all this and will make sure the west gets crushed by their dominance

.

Their dominance in what maybe 10-15 % of the energy market ?
ONCE EV market penetration hits say 15 to 20% the grids will fail ,

FF will still be the dominate source for energy for your grandkids

Do you know how many million barrels of oil is consumed globally every day?
Do you know how much Natural gas and Coal ( barrels of oil equivalent) is consumed globally every day?

and yet atmospheric CO2 is measured in parts per million

have no issue with conducting fundamental research, however it unbelievable irresponsible t& quite dangerous to shut down FF without a reliable affordable alternative in place
& that will not happen in your lifetime

time for you to take a reality check

 

[kherg007]

You're

What part of ' "via restricting the supply" is confusing you ?



Real meat is grow by living animals , not in a factory



if you call synthetic meat an achievement


a value judgement of yours you feel should be imposed on others

.
no where near cost competitive , still requires massive subsidies


due to subsidies

.
ok, thats why they are increasing their coal usage



name the program , you can not

the cashflow is from oil companies to govt in the form of royalties, land leases and corp income tax
& the cashflow is massive

Who needs a windfall tax? Oil and gas companies poured $48 billion into government coffers this year, says RBC | Calgary Herald



I think it is clear you really do not understand the global energy market


As long as someone else pays?

Hydrogen requires more energy to make than it produces, & it is extremely difficult to store and distribute.
Fusion ? nope, all the articles are filled with could, maybes, one day, hopefully... ec


You would not survive 2 months if FF were shut off tomorrow
two weeks if it were the winter



.

Their dominance in what maybe 10-15 % of the energy market ?
ONCE EV market penetration hits say 15 to 20% the grids will fail ,

FF will still be the dominate source for energy for your grandkids

Do you know how many million barrels of oil is consumed globally every day?
Do you know how much Natural gas and Coal ( barrels of oil equivalent) is consumed globally every day?

and yet atmospheric CO2 is measured in parts per million

have no issue with conducting fundamental research, however it unbelievable irresponsible t& quite dangerous to shut down FF without a reliable affordable alternative in place
& that will not happen in your lifetime

time for you to take a reality check

You have a unique style LOL. Takes a lot to not play your style ...so I won't. I'll be respectful.
First, no one is forcing anyone to do it. YOU said that. No one else did. Not me.
Second, the meat is not synthetic. It's real chicken meat. They grow actual chicken muscle cells. Not GMO. They are doing this with humans growing your own skin in a Petrie dish for burn victims. That's not synthetic skin.
Third, I eat meat. I get it. But if we have a choice, would you choose cruelty or not? Again, we're talking the future.
Fourth China and coal because they need it now. They are investing like hell in solar because they are not trapped in the now. They know its not the long term sustainable. And we're talking the future. If you believe we don't have it now, so well never have it, then that fully does not understand science. People opposed the moon missions in the USA as a waste of $$ but the amount of knock on value was enormous and way more than paid for that investment. But if you calculated the value in 1972 it was not good. By 1992 it was huge payoff.
But to stop all research on alternate energy because we're OK now is not smart. Things are being invented all the time to make things more efficient. LED lights, flatscreens etc saved tons of energy. Who's to say we won't find something to make other forms more cost effective? My engineering friends told me back in 1999 wind energy took as much as it gave out. Thus 0% efficient. Now it's 40%. Yes, slow, but progress. I don't bet my (wind) farm on it solving the problem. And im not saying ditch the fossils. But move in many directions at once. Yes, hydrogen now and fusion now are not a solution. But examples of things that with additional research may change the equation. There may be others. Thus, keep trying.
Yes, the grid collapses now if we go EV. Which is why the entire system needs to be thought out, and updated to manage that. Again, keep working on it.
Finally no where have I said shut it down now with no reliable alternative. Absolutely not. What we don't know is how long do we have? But we have to keep looking.
I'm arguing for funding these things. But it seem you take things out of context, cite your own interpretation of it as someone else's interpretation, then throw in an insult. In noticed you did that in another thread where some bloke cited Nobel prize winning economists and wrote they do not understand economics.
Reality check? You'd be right if I argued shut it down asap. But I did not.
The bottom line is I'm in favour of a robust research effort to eventually get us to this more reliable place off of fossils. I think you even think that too. It's a matter of when.

 

[JohnLarue]

[QUOTE="kherg007, post: 7579700, member: 208699"
You have a unique style LOL. Takes a lot to not play your style ...so I won't. I'll be respectful.
First, no one is forcing anyone to do it. YOU said that. No one else did. Not me[/QUOTE].

you fail to recognise that restricting supply is forcing the alternative onto the public

News flash for you
The money & efforts expended by the loony left to shut down FF likely exceed the money and effort spent on W& S development

Second, the meat is not synthetic. It's real chicken meat. They grow actual chicken muscle cells. Not GMO. They are doing this with humans growing your own skin in a Petrie dish for burn victims. That's not synthetic skin.

syn·thet·ic
[sinˈTHedik]

ADJECTIVE

1. (of a substance) made by chemical synthesis, especially to imitate a natural product:

It is not real chicken meat

Third, I eat meat. I get it. But if we have a choice, would you choose cruelty or not? Again, we're talking the future.

Again you fail to to recognise that restricting supply eliminates choice
and again the cruelty angle. Keep you value judgments o yourself

Fourth China and coal because they need it now. They are investing like hell in solar because they are not trapped in the now. They know its not the long term sustainable. Andy we're talking the future. If you believe we don't have it now, so well never have it, then that fully does not understand science.

Let me spell it out for you
Science dictates W & S will never displace 200 hundred million barrels of pil equivalent (coal & NG) per day

People opposed the moon missions in the USA as a waste of $$ but the amount of knock on value was enormous and way more than paid for that investment.

you are so naïve
the apollo program was really about developing rockets for ICBMs

& they did not restrict the supply of current energy based on the promise of 'putting a man on the moon

]But if you calculated the value in 1972 it was not good. By 1992 it was huge payoff.
But to stop all research on alternate energy because we're OK now is not smart

.

W & S are not viable solutions

Things are being invented all the time to make things more efficient. LED lights, flatscreens etc saved tons of energy. Who's to say we won't find something to make other forms more cost effective? My engineering friends told me back in 1999 wind energy took as much as it gave out. Thus 0% efficient. Now it's 40%. Yes, slow, but progress. I don't bet my (wind) farm on it solving the problem. And im not saying ditch the fossils. But move in many directions at once

40% is a long way away from the required 100%
you are running into

1. diminishing returns on technological investment
2. Fundamental physical laws of nature

Yes, hydrogen now and fusion now are not a solution. But examples of things that with additional research may change the equation. There may be others. Thus, keep trying.
Yes, the grid collapses now if we go EV. Which is why the entire system needs to be thought out, and updated to manage that. Again, keep working on it.

knock yourself out, just do not expect others to subside uneconomic W & S
And govts can not continue to do so

Finally no where have I said shut it down now with no reliable alternative. Absolutely not.

News flash for you
The money & efforts expended by the loony left to shut down FF lilky exceed the money and effort spent on W& S development

What we don't know is how long do we have? But we have to keep looking.
I'm arguing for funding these things. But it seem you take things out of context, cite your own interpretation of it as someone else's interpretation, then throw in an insult. In noticed you did that in another thread where some bloke cited Nobel prize winning economists and wrote they do not understand economics.
Reality check? You'd be right if I argued shut it down asap. But I did not.

A reality check is required as you seem oblivious to the scale of energy consumed
100 MM bbls of oil and an equivalent amount of Coal & NG combined ... per day

The bottom line is I'm in favour of a robust research effort to eventually get us to this more reliable place off of fossils. I think you even think that too. It's a matter of when.

Nothing wrong with Fundamental research
Subsidising inefficient W& S is not fundamental research
Shutting down FF use is not fundamental research

Just for clarity , there is a very long list of issues which should be addressed long before displacing FF

Ensuring access to clean drinking water for all is one of these
I also believe were are over fishing the oceans .
Advancing education for women in 3rd countries would slow the population growth dramatically
BTW the loonies are preventing financing of EE energy in the 3rd world, so rather than attend classes women spend their day collecting firewood and hauling water from the rivers (cant get a diesel powered well pump).

 

[oil&gas]

Fourth China and coal because they need it now. They are investing like hell in solar because they are not trapped in the now. They know its not the long term sustainable. And we're talking the future. If you believe we don't have it now, so well never have it, then that fully does not understand science.

You read too much into China's real intention behind their investment
in renewable energy. China is building solar power plants simply because
they have to develop every form of energy sources to meet ever increasing
demand. They also recognize the commercial potential of exporting solar panels
to us in exchange for our polluting fossil fuel in light of the west's obsession with
climate change. Fossil fuel energy investing in China is more hell-like.

 

[mjg1]

Science! Who needs that stuff, today's republican party only needs the Bible.

Republicans who pushed Arkansas' anti-trans ban just passed a bill to teach creationism in schools

The anti-science connection behind the right's anti-trans push and the move to return creationism to the classroom

www.salon.com

 

[mjg1]

Lie to their simpleton base with far-fetched nonsense and bullshit
Old white men think they know what is best for women and their fetus
Punish veterans because they were embarrassed by Schumer and Manchin
Claims to have won the 2020 Election

Oh, sorry, I thought we were bringing up Republic Science Fiction, bullshit and nonsense.

Amen, only one party has embraced the anti-science and Christian-right dogma of it's base.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Interesting response to this thread.

Many posters took the time to argue that the underlying premise of the thread was wrong, but in doing so simply proved it right!

Also, while no one has contributed additional specific references to science fiction works, I've noticed that other threads have been started that do so without realizing it. For example, regarding the end of private vehicle ownership (and, I assume, control):

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/world-economic-forum-calls-to-end-%E2%80%98wasteful%E2%80%99-private-car-ownership.790089/

You can see this theme played out in science fiction in:

I Robot:

(and we should recall the sinister effect of that vehicle control in that film)

Minority Report also contains a similar scene.

This specific point in both films is that public ownership of transportation, and public control of transportation is a tool that can be used to suppress criticism of government and/or oligarchal industry.

Why would free people willingly follow that path?

 

[Dutch Oven]

Dutch thinks electricity is obsolete, Dutch also thinks that it is better to burn all the available carbon quickly so humans are forced to live in space.

My views must have really imploded your world view for you to be so unable to respond to my accurately stated position, which was that using the most productive and efficient fuel/energy sources available today - those based on fossil fuels - is essential to the development of new fuels/energy sources that we WILL NEED in the future to colonize and access resources off planet. Electricity, no matter how it is generated - is NOT that energy source. There is a reason that there have been no electrically propelled rockets to date!

Your philosophy is similar to steampunk, which freezes civilization in the Victorian period, but instead of steam, you'd be running everything off electrictiy. But your model for civilization would be equally stagnant.

 

[wasabi almond]

There's a real pattern emerging in the Democratic Party agenda, and it is that their positions are now often mirroring the plots and themes of classic science fiction movies and novels.

Some quick examples:

1. The campaign to eat bugs. Is this foreshadowing the classic film Soylent Green (that was one of the steps towards eating humans - see the novel the film was based on - Make Room, Make Room by Harry Harrison). Maybe the Democrats meant to title their core agenda as The Soylent Green New Deal?

2. The push for abortion up to the date of birth. In Logan's Run, you could live until you were 30. Is this an even bolder move, limiting life to the age of 0?

The plot lines that allude to 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World are too numerous to even mention.

I encourage other TERBites to add to this list.

Are the Democrats stealing their policy from dystopian science fiction?

Let's hear from the science fiction fans out there!

Sodom and Gomorrah have become our woke reality

 

[Dutch Oven]

Sodom and Gomorrah have become our woke reality
View attachment 161401

The science fiction equivalent, where unbridled hedonism amongst the ruling class leads to a dystopian, centrally controlled future, is of course Brave New World. In that novel (and BBC series), rather than aborting undesirable children, all children were genetically engineered to fulfill specific tasks and stations in society, while the elites mostly just used drugs to pursue an empty, artificial existence. Even Shakespeare could see what was wrong with that, hundreds of years ago.

 

[HungSowel]

My views must have really imploded your world view for you to be so unable to respond to my accurately stated position, which was that using the most productive and efficient fuel/energy sources available today - those based on fossil fuels - is essential to the development of new fuels/energy sources that we WILL NEED in the future to colonize and access resources off planet. Electricity, no matter how it is generated - is NOT that energy source. There is a reason that there have been no electrically propelled rockets to date!

Your philosophy is similar to steampunk, which freezes civilization in the Victorian period, but instead of steam, you'd be running everything off electrictiy. But your model for civilization would be equally stagnant.

Electricity is a fundamental force.

All chemistry is based on electricity, the sharing of electrons between atoms driven by the repulsive or attractive force of electricity.

Your body runs on electricity, photosynthesis runs on electricity, light which are photons are electromagnetic waves of electricity.

 

[mandrill]

There's a real pattern emerging in the Democratic Party agenda, and it is that their positions are now often mirroring the plots and themes of classic science fiction movies and novels.

Some quick examples:

1. The campaign to eat bugs. Is this foreshadowing the classic film Soylent Green (that was one of the steps towards eating humans - see the novel the film was based on - Make Room, Make Room by Harry Harrison). Maybe the Democrats meant to title their core agenda as The Soylent Green New Deal?

2. The push for abortion up to the date of birth. In Logan's Run, you could live until you were 30. Is this an even bolder move, limiting life to the age of 0?

The plot lines that allude to 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World are too numerous to even mention.

I encourage other TERBites to add to this list.

Are the Democrats stealing their policy from dystopian science fiction?

Let's hear from the science fiction fans out there!

You know that Canada does not criminalize abortion at any stage of pregnancy, huh? That's similar to what some Democrat pols are asking for.

But it's not a "push for abortion up to the date of birth". No Canadian doctor would perform a third trimester abortion unless there was a clear and serious risk to the mother's health or the foetus was unviable, or both. I suggest you read up on what full decrim of abortion actually means and maybe a text or two on medical ethics. You have no idea of this topic and you're embarrassing yourself.

What full decrim means is that a doctor can intervene and perform necessary life-saving care without fear of being prosecuted by someone like yourself who doesn't appreciate the medical ethics and science involved in some of these decisions.

Maybe a handful of nourishing grasshoppers might improve your mental functioning in this area.