The One Spa

USSC strikes down Roe v Wade

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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It's never that simple.

Manchin is from an anti-abortion state and won't eliminate the filibuster for this.
Sinema has made it clear she will never eliminate the filibuster under any circumstances.
No Republican will eliminate the filibuster while the Democrats have nominal control of the Senate.
(They won't ever eliminate it until they have a piece of their real agenda that they absolutely cannot pass without eliminating it.)

Of course, as I said, eliminating the filibuster to pass a law codifying abortion will buy only a few months to a year.
It will be challenged immediately and the Supreme Court will strike it down as unconstitutional.
(A law banning abortion at the Federal level will not be unconstitutional, though.)

What might work is just ignoring the Supreme Court on this, but that's the kind of radical move I can't see happening in this environment.
But that require 3-4 more Dem senators to get around Manchin and Sinema.
Which means you agree with me. It will NEVER pass the 60 seat threshold. Ever. So unless the Dems promise to absolutely eliminate the filibuster electing them is useless.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I'm hoping with Roe Vs Wade, the New York ruling on concealed guns and the Jan. 6th hearings it will galvanize the left to come out in droves to vote as they did in 2020. I realize it's more of hoping than happening but hey, some do win Lottomax and imagine the ribbing of the righties we will all enjoy here if this were to happen. LOL
It's a hope, but right now I am not very hopeful about it.
I think people will vote for false promises of reduced gas prices and true promises of increased culture war.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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How would a State law like this work in reality? I'm sure there are examples of where a State law couldn't be enforced on a person when they left the State. Perhaps there was a time you when you were considered a citizen of a State. There's no real or practical permanence to State residency.

On a practical level, who is going to turn you in? Your doctor? I could be wrong, but isn't your doctor legally required to maintain your privacy.

For pretty much the same reason State abortion bans are fairly outdated, who's going to know you were pregnant and got an abortion out of state?
Lots of people will know.
Do you think people never talk about such things?
Besides, all you need to investigate is the suspicion, right?
The fact of no real permanent State residency is why you have to have the law, right?
Otherwise people can just pretend to be from a different state to avoid the law.
Can't have that.

So make a law that anyone who helps you leave a state to get an abortion is also guilty of a crime.
Now people have an incentive to turn you in because they don't want to be charged.
You think that taxi driver who took you to a clinic will go to jail for you?
Or the one who took you to the airport?
Also, who gave you the money? They can get arrested to.

Is such a law fucking insane?
Of course it is, but that's the point.
If everyone is terrified it keeps people in line.
Then, when people protest these laws, the Court can say the only way to stop the confusion is for there to be one law nationwide banning abortion.

You act like this is some kind of rational balancing act of rights and freedoms and not a push to ban abortion nationwide.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Back in the day, the lefties could always count on the courts (especially the 9th Circuit) to bail them out. Now they are finding out that they must actually win count cases based on merit.

Proposition 8 is the classic example. The lefties lost the referendum so they ran to the courts to nullify the results.
The courts have been aggressively reactionary for most of the existence of the United States.
The brief bit where they were less so and more centrist was viewed by the Right Wing as "a horrible swing to the left consisting of activist judges".
That's why the right wing spent so much effort to take over the justice system and put in judges who are happy to make up bullshit reasoning and not decide cases on the merits.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Which means you agree with me. It will NEVER pass the 60 seat threshold. Ever. So unless the Dems promise to absolutely eliminate the filibuster electing them is useless.
No, we don't agree but your reasoning is gobsmackingly stupid.
Electing Democrats is necessary but not sufficient.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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As a lawyer (non-practicing) reading the reasons for the decision the intellectual dishonesty is quite stunning.
Not really.
Most of the decisions by this group have been like that.
If anything, it has gotten worse as they have had a more and more solid majority, but "fuck you, that's why" has been their position for a while now.
 

WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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Again you bring up this bullshit argument that the only people who want decriminalization of abortion are "Democrat extremist baby-killing commies".
Why do you always try to make me your straw man?

If you were paying attention, you would know I got no problem with baby-killers. It's those damn extremist commies I gotta problem with. :ROFLMAO:
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Except that the real terrorism threat has been from the right anti-abortion movement. That is now expected to pick up some steam against the fewer Clinics that are offering abortion:
Not the point.
The point is that as long as you can make a boogieman that "the left is violent and oppressing you" then all your violence is justified.

There are a lot of protests that are going to happen.
There will be violence in those because the right is going to make SURE there is violence.
The justification will be that "we all know the left is violent".

They didn't pass those laws about running down protesters for nothing, you know.
And the Proud Boys are already going to be on their Telegrams saying they have to go down and hit someone to "prove the left is violent" and therefore have reasons for crackdowns.

The cops will shoot some people in the next few days while they are protesting - probably with "non-lethal" rounds but close enough to do damage.
They will kettle and beat and tear gas people protesting the ruling.

This will be cited as proof "the left" is violent, so that right wing types can attack some people without feeling bad about it.
 
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WyattEarp

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Lots of people will know.
Do you think people never talk about such things?
Besides, all you need to investigate is the suspicion, right?
The fact of no real permanent State residency is why you have to have the law, right?
Otherwise people can just pretend to be from a different state to avoid the law.
Can't have that.

So make a law that anyone who helps you leave a state to get an abortion is also guilty of a crime.
Now people have an incentive to turn you in because they don't want to be charged.
You think that taxi driver who took you to a clinic will go to jail for you?
Or the one who took you to the airport?
Also, who gave you the money? They can get arrested to.

Is such a law fucking insane?
Of course it is, but that's the point.
If everyone is terrified it keeps people in line.
Then, when people protest these laws, the Court can say the only way to stop the confusion is for there to be one law nationwide banning abortion.

You act like this is some kind of rational balancing act of rights and freedoms and not a push to ban abortion nationwide.
I think you are painting a picture of some of the Fifty State's imposing some type of authoritarian, paranoid-driven regime on its people. I use the term "on its people" loosely because Americans are not betrothed to states and one state's laws don't follow them across the United States as they travel. While some conservative state legislatures might pass some extreme abortion laws for political points, the effect of any abortion travel law of this type will be negligible if not implausible.

You are simply engaging in rhetoric wars using extreme anti-abortionists as the straw man.

Not to nitpick your post, but how exactly does a taxi driver take someone to an out-of-state clinic? Sarcastically, is there going to be an Uber Aborts?
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
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I am aware that abortion is legal in Canada. Nowhere in my post did I say it wasn't.

MY point was that although legal, abortion services in Canada have long waitlists and many who do not live in large cities are without access. Now with this ruling in the USA, women will be traveling to Canada to access our services, affecting already long waitlist times for Canadians.

I was only pointing out to some who think that this does not or will not directly affect Canada "so who cares", that it could actually have an affect on our already lacking abortion services.

Despite what some may think, you cannot go to any doctor or walk into any hospital to have an abortion in Canada.
You are just speculating that's what will happen.
If access is so bad next time you are seeing your family doctor(if you have 1, lots don't) ask him/her why.
I bet dollars to donuts it is strictly due the cost of setting up a clinic and the security of themselves and employees and clients.
It's not up to the Federal or Provincial governments to set up these clinics.
So bust your family doctor over lack of access.
 

Czar

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2004
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I erred above

The vote was 5 to 4 with respect to overturning Roe with cheif justice John Roberts siding with the liberal side of the court, but in a 6-3 vote along party lines Roberts voted that Mississippi restricting abortion access was ok.

So if Ruth Bader Ginsberg had of just retired when Obama asked her to so he could appoint a liberal justice, none of this would be occurring.

And of course if Hilary Clinton had of been able to run a decent campaign and not deserved to lose, we would not be here either.
As a strong supporter of abortion rights, I'd say that if left wasn't so horrible with their woke policies, Trump never would have gotten in. But they are and that is one major reason why you have now lost abortion. And you are going to lose other beloved things as well like ObamaCare.

So how can the left get back in power(because they are going to get creamed in the mid-terms). Reject the disgusting woke mind virus frauds and return the the reasonably respectable kind of people you used to be, just a bit left of center. Instead, you moved over toward the malevolent socialists bent on societal destruction and embraced complete idiocy like defund the police, BLM policies, going soft on criminals, structural racism lies while implementing structural racism policies, trying to direct kindergarten kids into homosexuality/gender change, mass illegal immigration welcoming, foolish man-made global warming policies, etc. If you want to embrace the pink haired freaks and 16 year old scolding girls for policy, get ready for more conservative judges.

Something to think about for the average soccer mom.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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I think you are painting a picture of some of the Fifty State's imposing some type of authoritarian, paranoid-driven regime on its people. I use the term "on its people" loosely because Americans are not betrothed to states and one state's laws don't follow them across the United States as they travel. While some conservative state legislatures might pass some extreme abortion laws for political points, the effect of any abortion travel law of this type will be negligible if not implausible.
You are simply engaging in rhetoric wars using extreme anti-abortionists as the straw man.
Not to nitpick your post, but how exactly does a taxi driver take someone to an out-of-state clinic? Sarcastically, is there going to be an Uber Aborts?
Why wouldn't MO or MI establish some sort of "pregnancy register" and check up on women from time to time? Make them register w a certain clinic and report there once a week? And make them file paperwork to "prove" that they lost that child naturally?

Lady doesn't have to stay resident of that state, but what if she's got a 10-year career path at a business or institution there? That's going to force her to carry the child to term - which is all the law precisely intends to do.

It's 1984-ish, but so is striking down Roe and so is Thomas boasting that gays are next on the list. This isn't your dad's United States.
 
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mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Not exactly true.
Yes, when the case got ruled on it was a compromise that most people - including the major evangelical groups - agreed with.
But by the end of the decade it had been turned into the way to get the Evangelicals back into politics and protect segregation. (They couldn't use protecting segregation as "our moral crusade" any more, so they had to make "the unborn babies" the new crusade to act as cover.)
They did work hard since 1980 on to overturn it.
That it survived as long as it did is a bit of a fluke.
They thought they were going to be able to kill it with Bork, but he got rejected.
They thought they had it killed with Casey but Kennedy decided to join the middle ground (and Souter and O'Connor also proved to be "unreliable") and so it was weakened but specifically upheld as a concept.
That was the birth of the Federalist Society's absolute stranglehold on future nominations - they were never going to be surprised by a GOP judge not voting to drop Roe if they had the chance again.
It was a weird fluke it didn't get struck down in 1992, and it took another 20 years for them to get the shot again.
It will probably take another 20 years for it to be put back and that is only assuming the people who support those rights use the same kind of patient long-term strategy.
I'd love to read your sources. Fell free to DM them to me.

But my gut is that certain groups - i.e. devout Catholics - ALWAYS hated it, hence the rush of hate violence outside clinics in the late Twentieth Century.
 

princekwekua

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Oct 26, 2021
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John Roberts says the 5 justices went too far in overturning Roe. If Ruth Bader Ginsburg had stepped aside when she knew she had incurable cancer and replaced by Obama, we wouldnt have this calamity. Women are paying the price for the selfishness and greed of one individual.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
76,278
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John Roberts says the 5 justices went too far in overturning Roe. If Ruth Bader Ginsburg had stepped aside when she knew she had incurable cancer and replaced by Obama, we wouldnt have this calamity. Women are paying the price for the selfishness and greed of one individual.
That's an odd take on causality. 😸 🐵🐸
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
76,278
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As a strong supporter of abortion rights, I'd say that if left wasn't so horrible with their woke policies, Trump never would have gotten in. But they are and that is one major reason why you have now lost abortion. And you are going to lose other beloved things as well like ObamaCare.
So how can the left get back in power(because they are going to get creamed in the mid-terms). Reject the disgusting woke mind virus frauds and return the the reasonably respectable kind of people you used to be, just a bit left of center. Instead, you moved over toward the malevolent socialists bent on societal destruction and embraced complete idiocy like defund the police, BLM policies, going soft on criminals, structural racism lies while implementing structural racism policies, trying to direct kindergarten kids into homosexuality/gender change, mass illegal immigration welcoming, foolish man-made global warming policies, etc. If you want to embrace the pink haired freaks and 16 year old scolding girls for policy, get ready for more conservative judges.
Something to think about for the average soccer mom.
Czar, you know that Trump lost the popular vote in both elections, huh?

In fact, the Dems did reasonably well in the actual vote numbers.
 

danmand

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Nov 28, 2003
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John Roberts says the 5 justices went too far in overturning Roe. If Ruth Bader Ginsburg had stepped aside when she knew she had incurable cancer and replaced by Obama, we wouldnt have this calamity. Women are paying the price for the selfishness and greed of one individual.
What a load of BS. Blaming Ruth Ginsberg instead of the 3 Trump Judge who all lied through their teeth when asked about abortion law.
 
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danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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Why wouldn't MO or MI establish some sort of "pregnancy register" and check up on women from time to time? Make them register w a certain clinic and report there once a week? And make them file paperwork to "prove" that they lost that child naturally?

Lady doesn't have to stay resident of that state, but what if she's got a 10-year career path at a business or institution there? That's going to force her to carry the child to term - which is all the law precisely intends to do.

It's 1984-ish, but so is striking down Roe and so is Thomas boasting that gays are next on the list. This isn't your dad's United States.
Women will be guilty until proven innocent if they have miscarriages. "Not exercising enough care while pregnant" is good for 10 to 20 years.
 
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