Toronto police chief to apologize to Black community as force unveils race-based data: sources

[Mr.Know-It-All]

If the police are racist howcome they only target young black males ?

Wouldn't racists target ALL black people regardless of age or gender ?

It's like getting angry at the police for "targeting" young males with sports cars for street racing instead of 60 year old women. Obviously anyone with an iq over room temperature can see what's going on.

9 out of 10 times when there is a shooting in Toronto the victim and perpetrator are both black. But let's not talk about that or we are racists

Correct.

I don't know the actual stats but it wouldn't surprise me if 95% of white collar crimes are committed by white men and that 95% of people charged and prosecuted for white collar crimes are white men. That's a good thing - catch the people doing the crime and prosecute them.

 

[Mr.Know-It-All]

And the fact is blaming crime on black youth doesn't fit Canadian reality where different regions have different ethnic makeup of gangsters. Toronto might be closer to US stats but all data shows that Toronto is far from the most dangerous cities in Canada.

It's wrong to blame crime on black youth because most black youth are law abiding. However, in Toronto when it comes to certain types of crime such as shootings - the type of crime that puts fear in the hearts of normal people who want to live a normal peaceful life - black youth are overrepresented. These crimes are violent and give normal people nightmares that they're compelled to move out of certain neighborhoods because they don't want to catch a stray bullet or become the target of a criminal ready to use an illegal firearm on them. It's all very rational when and if you choose to think about it.

 

[DinkleMouse]

If they won’t release stats on who is committing the crimes, stats on who is charged are not relevant.

How exactly do they determine "who is committing the crimes" if they don't have sufficient evidence to charge people? Is there a crystal ball that says what race committed every crime even if the case is never prosecuted? If so, can it give other information to help police identify the perpetrator so they can be charged? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but the words you used don't make sense.

This is the very problem with crime statistics though. They can only show the information that public safety agencies have, and that information will 100% be skewed if there is a systemic problem.

You don't even need the cops to be inherently racist; that's the problem with systemic issues. If the statistics show blacks are more likely to commit crimes, police will be swayed by those statistics and direct policing, resources, investigations, suspicion, etc accordingly. As a result more black people are likely to get stopped, searched, questioned, etc. This leads to three issues that exacerbate the problem:

1) the people stopped get charged with crimes unrelated to what they were initially stopped for, making a higher rate of "known crime", though the same rate is crime might be seen if they stopped other groups as much
2) crimes believed to be committed by the targeted group get closed more often ("closed" not "solved" as plenty of people are charged or even convicted and are later acquitted)
3) increase police presence in areas with higher populations of residents of the targeted group in an effort to "curb crime" results in more crimes being reported/closed involving that group

All 3 skew the statistics more and continue to perpetuate the cycle that caused the issue in the first place. As a result, perfectly reasonable, non-racist police and non-racist politicians push policies and activities and investigations that not only apply justice unevenly, but encourage and justify this uneven application.

This is the issue that cannot be solved by statistics. Do black communities, by and large, have higher crime? Is this an issue with "black culture"? Is the legal system justifiably using resources disproportionately? Or rather is it the system itself, after years of skew (which almost certainly did come from a racist place initially), making the statistics appear to imply that?

The answer isn't going to be found in the statistics. Even the rank and file officer can't answer because if there is a systemic problem it is likely skewing their view as well. Academia suffers from the problem that it can't isolate the variables and therefore can't adequately study the issue. We have hypothesis and conjecture. Until a good mechanism for testing the theories emerges, that's all we have.

 

[Mr.Know-It-All]

How exactly do they determine "who is committing the crimes" if they don't have sufficient evidence to charge people? Is there a crystal ball that says what race committed every crime even if the case is never prosecuted? If so, can it give other information to help police identify the perpetrator so they can be charged? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but the words you used don't make sense.

This is the very problem with crime statistics though. They can only show the information that public safety agencies have, and that information will 100% be skewed if there is a systemic problem.

You don't even need the cops to be inherently racist; that's the problem with systemic issues. If the statistics show blacks are more likely to commit crimes, police will be swayed by those statistics and direct policing, resources, investigations, suspicion, etc accordingly. As a result more black people are likely to get stopped, searched, questioned, etc. This leads to three issues that exacerbate the problem:

1) the people stopped get charged with crimes unrelated to what they were initially stopped for, making a higher rate of "known crime", though the same rate is crime might be seen if they stopped other groups as much
2) crimes believed to be committed by the targeted group get closed more often ("closed" not "solved" as plenty of people are charged or even convicted and are later acquitted)
3) increase police presence in areas with higher populations of residents of the targeted group in an effort to "curb crime" results in more crimes being reported/closed involving that group

All 3 skew the statistics more and continue to perpetuate the cycle that caused the issue in the first place. As a result, perfectly reasonable, non-racist police and non-racist politicians push policies and activities and investigations that not only apply justice unevenly, but encourage and justify this uneven application.

This is the issue that cannot be solved by statistics. Do black communities, by and large, have higher crime? Is this an issue with "black culture"? Is the legal system justifiably using resources disproportionately? Or rather is it the system itself, after years of skew (which almost certainly did come from a racist place initially), making the statistics appear to imply that?

The answer isn't going to be found in the statistics. Even the rank and file officer can't answer because if there is a systemic problem it is likely skewing their view as well. Academia suffers from the problem that it can't isolate the variables and therefore can't adequately study the issue. We have hypothesis and conjecture. Until a good mechanism for testing the theories emerges, that's all we have.

This post is a lot of hot air. Your position is that we can do nothing because we know nothing, statistics suck, and the "system" has a problem and there is no way to solve it. You're wrong.

 

[ottawa_cuck]

We are sorry for arresting mostly blacks. We will try to do better.

Please don’t fire me.

 

[tml]

Correct.

I don't know the actual stats but it wouldn't surprise me if 95% of white collar crimes are committed by white men and that 95% of people charged and prosecuted for white collar crimes are white men. That's a good thing - catch the people doing the crime and prosecute them.

Wrong. White men are unfairly being targeted for white collar crime. Therefore, they are over represented in white collar crime statistics. Right???

 

[tml]

It's wrong to blame crime on black youth because most black youth are law abiding.

There is a difference between blaming crime on all black youth and saying a large portion of certain crimes are committed by black youth. Like saying not all Germans were Nazis, but most Nazi's were German.

 

[Darts]

Family of woman who died in Toronto balcony fall want answers from police | Toronto Sun

 

[GameBoy27]

Speaking of the black community. Here's a little something to take your mind off all the bad news.

Enjoy your weekend!

 

[Charlemagne]

Politician Blames Jamaican Gangs for Crime in Toronto

Politician Blames Jamaican Gangs for Crime in Toronto - Film & Video Stock

Conservative member of parliament and member of the Reform Party Art Hanger receives criticism for his assertion that increased crime in Toronto are the result of Jamaican gang activity. In Ottawa, Hanger's colleague Preston Manning defends him by citing a RCMP report and with a comment that...

www.efootage.com

An oldie but a goodie!

 

[DinkleMouse]

This post is a lot of hot air. Your position is that we can do nothing because we know nothing, statistics suck, and the "system" has a problem and there is no way to solve it. You're wrong.

Not at all what I said. But you go ahead and believe what you want.

 

[Andreiboris01]

Is the police chief also going to apologise for higher crime in predominantly poor neighborhoods as opposed to posh areas of the GTA? Perhaps more arrests in quiet neighbourhoods have to be made regardless of crime to ballance out the crime and enforcement of it in poor neighborhoods so that statistics will be perfect for the always discrininated individuals.
At that point the loud crowd will be happy

 

[basketcase]

It's wrong to blame crime on black youth because most black youth are law abiding. ...

It's wrong to suggest that skin colour or "black culture" are responsible for violent crime in Canada when violent criminals in other parts of the country have a very different ethnic makeup.

There is a rational discussion about what causes violent crime and how to reduce it but it sure seems that many posters here are fixated on the idea that blacks are more inclined to crime and violence.

 

[basketcase]

This post is a lot of hot air. ...

Because you don't like it? Stats are only as good as the source of the stats. American studies show that black people have a much higher rate of conviction and longer sentences for similar cases. Stats show that black people get charged with possession of weed in the US at a far higher rate so based solely on police stats, it would seem like weed is a black thing. But that view is countered by other stats that suggest that if anything, blacks smoke it at a slightly lower rate.

If systemic racism impacts police arrest behaviour then their arrest stats are simply creating a circular argument.

 

[basketcase]

Is the police chief also going to apologise for higher crime in predominantly poor neighborhoods as opposed to posh areas of the GTA? Perhaps more arrests in quiet neighbourhoods have to be made regardless of crime to ballance out the crime and enforcement of it in poor neighborhoods so that statistics will be perfect for the always discrininated individuals.
At that point the loud crowd will be happy

Do you think that police presence (or other government services) in rich areas isn't influenced by the opinions and influence of the residents? So what if people in poorer communities start getting their voices heard?

 

[xmontrealer]

Do you think that police presence (or other government services) in rich areas isn't influenced by the opinions and influence of the residents? So what if people in poorer communities start getting their voices heard?

I don't think there's a lot of gang crime going on in Forest Hill, at least not by the residents of that and similar wealthy communities. Could be one reason why there's less police presence there, except to patrol the areas to prevent burglaries, carjackings, attend to domestic disputes, etc. and hand out parking tickets.

Of course I realize that there are far fewer factors in those communities that would induce the residents, both young and old, to have to commit crimes just to survive. White collar crime and fraudulent activities excepted, of course, but the detectives and non-uniformed police generally handle that...

 

[Darts]

Voices from the hood.
Jane-Finch voices speak truth to power on gun violence - NOW Magazine (nowtoronto.com)

 

[Andreiboris01]

Do you think that police presence (or other government services) in rich areas isn't influenced by the opinions and influence of the residents? So what if people in poorer communities start getting their voices heard?

How could police presence be influenced by residents? Have you never seen cops with power trips? How would a reaident influence a cop at the unit level? Bubble tea?
Perhaps you are talking about influencing the police chief. Well he was influenced and appologised for arresting people commiting crimes. Do you think that if a cop caught a white kid commiting crime the officer would not arrest him/her because the community influenced him not to through bubble tea alowances?

 

[Frankfooter]

Is the police chief also going to apologise for higher crime in predominantly poor neighborhoods as opposed to posh areas of the GTA? Perhaps more arrests in quiet neighbourhoods have to be made regardless of crime to ballance out the crime and enforcement of it in poor neighborhoods so that statistics will be perfect for the always discrininated individuals.
At that point the loud crowd will be happy

I dunno, will the GOP apologize for higher murder rates in their states?

Third Way

www.thirdway.org

 

[Charlemagne]

How could police presence be influenced by residents? Have you never seen cops with power trips? How would a reaident influence a cop at the unit level? Bubble tea?
Perhaps you are talking about influencing the police chief. Well he was influenced and appologised for arresting people commiting crimes. Do you think that if a cop caught a white kid commiting crime the officer would not arrest him/her because the community influenced him not to through bubble tea alowances?

The cops tend to go for easy arrests which they know will get prosecuted. If a bunch of kids do something, the ones that are poor/already have a record are more likely to get charged.

They also love to take the weed and money away from low level dealers, without arrest as well.