As if Russia had fair elections and opposition could campaign freely and safely against the thugs that lord over that country.
Russia will invade and occupy Ukraine before the end of February. China will invade and occupy Taiwan right after the Olympics.
- Thread starter Robert Mugabe
- Start date
And that is where you are imo so very wrong. They happily lie to continue to obtain funding. And worse they ignore information in a collective group think. Reports are skewed to please the dept heads. And only those who follow in the collective foreign policy dogma get promoted.
State Department orders diplomats' families to leave US embassy in Ukraine
abcnews.go.com
State Department orders diplomats' families to leave US embassy in Kyiv amid Russia tensions
The State Department has ordered diplomats’ families to depart the U.S. embassy in Kyiv, Ukraine, amid tensions between Ukraine and Russia.
abcnews.go.com
Lol this is more pro Putin than Fox News even. I really wonder what media that price of wisdom came from.
fact check: he came second for mayor of Moscow. And then was poisoned by Putins secret service to keep him out of politics. And then he came back to russia where as was expected Putin promptly put him in jail where he still is now.
this is one of the most noble honest and brave politicians anyone can think of.
dog catcher is really your level. Not his.
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Is it lying or is it sort of like how if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Not outright deception but seeing what you want to see. Got plenty of that here on terb.
Ever heard the term "false flag operation"?
Beyond that what happens in intelligence is the raw data is given to several analysts and groups who independently come up with conclusions and suggestions for actions. Same with the Military. Then from those options the chiefs will pick the one they want and two unreasonable ones to get the President and/or the Congressional Committees to go along with what they want. I've seen several interviews with former CIA who all tell the same story.
Lies of omission and manipulation of data are still lies. Its not so much a conspiracy or a cabal but a collective group think that has developed and evolved since WWII. The ones who agree with it get promoted. And it continues.
I wonder if Putin has goals more like his Syrian goals for Ukraine.
www.lawfareblog.com
Russia’s Strategic Success in Syria and the Future of Moscow’s Middle East Policy
Russia's intervention in Syria cemented its presence in the Middle East at relatively low cost.
As I said: look it up. I can go and dig out the exact clip and what difference will it make? You'll either try to spin it out or claim that it has been manipulated. Joe's statement on limited incursion is a matter of the public record. The rest is up to you.
No NATO on his border comes to mind right off the bat. The west has slowly been squeezing Russia by admitting one eastern block country after the other. Putin and the Russians are feeling the heat and they want it stopped. All it would take is the west stating that they will never admit Ukraine into NATO and the whole problem would disappear. Putin could declare victory and everyone is happy except the Ukrainian people.
The problem is that Putin cannot reverse course at this point in time. He's painted himself into a corner and if he backs off the gas now, his political career is over and I would speculate that he will be in prison within a few weeks for corruption. The whole world knows that he's corrupt and has been stealing money through various companies and the corrupt Russian system for decades. The Russians largely turn a blind eye to it partly because of the Russian psyche and partly because Putin is seen as a strong man and that's all Russians understand or care about. But if he embarrasses Russia in this, poof goes his immunity and he's gonna go down hard and fast.
So Putin either wins big and survives or he goes to prison, maybe even the firing squad.
Isn't it commonly understood that the West will never admit Ukraine into NATO?
I thought that was common ground - and for precisely the reason you state.
It's also a "chicken and the egg" equation. NATO exists because Putin is aggressive and posturing. Putin claims he must be aggressive because NATO exists. And so it chases its tail around and around.
Not according to Stoltenberg and Blinken.
It is pretty clear the Chicken came first. Nato has been going East since the Soviet Union collapsed, and against promises made.
NATO exists because of the iron curtain that descended across Europe after WW2. At the time western Europe was fearful of an incredibly powerful soviet army which had just handed the master race its ass. If the Soviets could defeat the mighty German military, who could stop them if they wanted to invade France? The answer was a coalition which we all came to know and love as NATO. NATO was born out of the need to contain Soviet expansionism and communist takeover. And it worked. When the Soviet Union collapsed, the freed Eastern European block countries didn't want to ever fall under the boot of the Russians again and so they clamoured to join NATO. Neither they nor the west believed that Russia ceased being a thing to be wary of. ( Though interestingly for a time there I recall politicians openly musing about Russia joining NATO. After all, they were no longer the enemy. But I digress.)
But then along came the bumbling drunkard Boris Yeltsin. Initially there was so much promise, but it fell right into that river with him on that fateful night. Little did the west appreciate that this diminutive KGB agent stationed in East Germany would turn the whole thing right on its ear because he lamented (as did a whole bunch of Russians) the demise of the soviet Union. And just like that, Russians opted en mass for the dictator rather than democracy once again. It's really all they understand.
So NATO has existed long since before Putin and will probably exist long after he is dust.
As far as the west never admitting Ukraine, well Putin has always been scheming to find a way to break up NATO. He thought he had finally found a way in the "the useful idiot" to accomplish that. And if he had had another 4 years, he might just have managed it. But he came up 42,000 votes short. That is the number one thing Putin wanted and still wants. The number 2 thing is the breakup of the EU and the stupid Brits just may have set that in motion.
As far as Ukraine goes, I hate to say it, but the West may have to let them go. There are just too many connections, too many "ties that bind" between Russia and Ukraine. And frankly it's not worth going to war for. If Putin sends his army into Ukraine, there's only one country that has the military might to stand up to the Russians (and it sure as hell isn't Canada with what put politicians and successive governments have done to our proud military.). The Americans would have to be crazy to go to war with the Russians on the front porch of Russia. First off, they'd lose. And second off, the American people are fed up with pointless foreign wars (and losing every one of them, including to a bunch of guys who dress in rags and live in caves.).
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find five similarities with GOP
www.state.gov
Russia’s Top Five Persistent Disinformation Narratives - United States Department of State
Russia has long exploited the “Illusion of Truth” effect: When a lie is repeated so often that people begin to believe it. Understanding this effect can help you avoid falling for it.
www.state.gov
The GOP learned from Putin.find five similarities with GOP
Russia’s Top Five Persistent Disinformation Narratives - United States Department of State
Russia has long exploited the “Illusion of Truth” effect: When a lie is repeated so often that people begin to believe it. Understanding this effect can help you avoid falling for it.
I remember seeing examples of Putin-ganda back in 2014 and being shocked how vicious and ludicrous it was. In particular, I recall a video which explained how the USA was about to seize Siberia from the innocent victim Russia.
If Poutine want's Finland and Sweden in NATO, take over Ukraine would be a good way to do it. Granted Finland was part of Russia but not the USSR and Sweden was never part.
Also The Potato Union are members of NATO and on the border with Russia. Also Poland borders Leningrad which technically counts.
If the goal is no NATO on the border not only is it too late, but there will be even more border with Finland. Even more so, the Potato Union is connected to Poland via a small gap, Finland is not so easily cut off from the rest of NATO and I am guessing the Russians have bad memories of messing with Finland... never mind with the Swedes.
Also if Russia takes over the Ukraine, boom, more border, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. As of now the NATO/Russian border exists but it's small.
If Russia attacks but doesn't take it over I can see that opening the path to NATO membership for whatever is left.
Canada can't do shit. However you wouldn't have to go to war. Sneak in a battalion of Americans, Brits, French, Germans and Poles with orders to take up positions close to the front lines with orders to fire back and Russia would back down. They wouldn't even need to be super sex space ninjas either, light infantry or air mobile would be fine.
Much like in Korea, the American troops are not actually there to stop Best Korea from invading, South Korea can hold on it's own. They are however just strong enough to fill up the body bags and give the US a reason to go full potato over the situation. It's amazing what 3000 bodies can do. Invading Ukraine then would go from being risky to being a very bad idea. As for who could stop them, Euro NATO could do the job even without the Americans. Granted by the time they got there it would be a case of taking the country back but still.
Would it be worth it, no, but that applies both ways and MAD kept the peace for decades. Putin might need to win this but he sure as hell can't afford to lose this.
