Will There Be Another American Revolution?

[Drakarys]

They both are. But Biden is the lesser of 2 evils.

If multiple elected officials are doing the exact thing but only one is proclaimed as evil, then this statement clearly demonstrates your bias.

I'm not defending Trump, don't even like him all that much, but it comes down to a principle. Either they're all evil or none are.

 

[danmand]

Both US and Canadian immigration law carefully and exhaustively define classes of people who may / may not enter and procedures for determining which is which. I don't see how you can make the point that Canadian law is more precisely defined.

The difference between USA and Canada is that USA do not enforce the law. Illegal immigrants are allowed to live and work in USA, because powerful interests want a desperate underclass of workers that will take low paying, miserable jobs.

 

[WyattEarp]

Do we have them. Yes. Having worked in restaurants they are there.

But the USA economy, to a much larger degree has always relied on a permanent controlled underclass to farm, clean, cook, raise their kids, and service the higher classes. Whether outright slavery, to Jim Crow, to Chinese Labor(yep we did that one) to now Central American labor its always been there. With laws to protect owners and beat down/threaten the underclass.

All that has to happen is to enforce the rules on the owners and toss a few in jail. Well publicize it and the jobs dry up. But the lawmakers are guilty of it too. So it won't happen.

Believe me, there is truth to all you said. However, don't underestimate the underground, cash economy. The government can't and won't check on who is watching your kids, cleaning your house and cutting your grass.

This might throw members here into a conniption, but during the Trump years I can personally attest that the cost (the provider's wages) for all these things went up. That was a good thing. There might have been incidental factors beyond immigration policy, but it was a good thing.

 

[danmand]

Believe me, there is truth to all you said. However, don't underestimate the underground, cash economy. The government can't and won't check on who is watching your kids, cleaning your house and cutting your grass.

This might throw members here into a conniption, but during the Trump years I can personally attest that the cost (the provider's wages) for all these things went up. That was a good thing. There might have been incidental factors beyond immigration policy, but it was a good thing.

Trump was right in wanting to bring manufacturing jobs back to USA workers. He just blamed and targeted the wrong parties. The corporations who moved jobs abroad and the businesses that rely on illegal immigrant workforces are the real culprits.

Of course, cost of goods would go up dramatically.

 

[Frankfooter]

Do you have evidence (internet facts) that Guatemalan agricultural is down steeply? Now that's how you can personally fact check politicized information. Ask an obvious question that challenges a thesis and has accessible answers.

This was one of the most clever pieces of far left propaganda I have ever seen emerge in recent years. It's the proverbial kill two birds in one stone. The Far Left advocates for a more open border and climate change legislation. The Far Left would never kill a bird of course.

You should try reading the news.
Oh wait, it was just in the MSM.

Hungry and desperate: Climate change fuels a migration crisis in Guatemala
Starving and in debt, farmers whose land has been destroyed by climate-related weather events are becoming migrants.

 

[Drakarys]

Border crisis hits classrooms as unaccompanied minors flood NY schools

The Biden Administration is flooding New York City and Long Island communities with thousands of unaccompanied immigrant minors captured crossing the Mexico-US border.

nypost.com

 

[Butler1000]

Believe me, there is truth to all you said. However, don't underestimate the underground, cash economy. The government can't and won't check on who is watching your kids, cleaning your house and cutting your grass.

This might throw members here into a conniption, but during the Trump years I can personally attest that the cost (the provider's wages) for all these things went up. That was a good thing. There might have been incidental factors beyond immigration policy, but it was a good thing.

Which is one of the reasons why the Press, Wine Moms, Neo-Liberal Elites all lost it. They loved the tax break but hated having to pay more to cut the lawn.

 

[jcpro]

I'd say the revolution will be sooner than we think.

Migrant caravan rejects visa offers from Mexican officials, keeps going toward US

A massive caravan of thousands of migrants has rejected an offer of humanitarian visas for some of the travelers, and is continuing with its journey to the United States border.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Frankfooter]

I'd say the revolution will be sooner than we think.

Migrant caravan rejects visa offers from Mexican officials, keeps going toward US

A massive caravan of thousands of migrants has rejected an offer of humanitarian visas for some of the travelers, and is continuing with its journey to the United States border.

www.foxnews.com

Biden is already funding them to go live in GOP gerrymandered areas.

 

[Valcazar]

Yes, I think you are on to something.

U.S. crime is also probably higher because Republican shopkeepers and homeowners are stealing from themselves so that they can file insurance claims and embarrass Democratic leaders in their cities at the same time.

The problem with your theory is that those crimes are down. Murder and manslaughter (homicide) is up. Aggravated assault is up.
Rape and Robbery are down. Property crime is down except for motor vehicle theft.
(This is according to the FBI numbers that came out last month. There are probably subtleties in the details.)

FBI Releases 2020 Crime Statistics | Federal Bureau of Investigation

For the first time in four years, the estimated number of violent crimes in the nation increased when compared with the previous year’s statistics.

www.fbi.gov

" The 2020 statistics show the estimated rate of violent crime was 387.8 offenses per 100,000 inhabitants, and the estimated rate of property crime was 1,958.2 offenses per 100,000 inhabitants. The violent crime rate rose 5.2 percent when compared with the 2019 rate; the property crime rate declined 8.1 percent.

Quick refresher that for this report:
violent crimes = murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.
property crimes = burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft

 

[Valcazar]

The one party discipline that U.S. parties seem to have is that they won't pass a budget with a majority coalition pulling from both parties.

That whole situation has been a mess since the late 1990s. The government has been funded more often by continuing resolutions than actual budgets most of the time, I think.
It's a shit show.

That's why our country functions and the US sucks shit.

I can't say it is just that - but the government system having fewer veto points and less ability for countermajoritarian action affects things a lot.

As for the whole asylum thing, the US actually has the rules posted, you know.

The Affirmative Asylum Process | USCIS

ALERT: Court Order on Circumvention of Lawful Pathways Final Rule On Aug

www.uscis.gov

You have to be physically present in the US, and you have up to a year after you got in to apply.
Yes, this is all best done by coming in through a normal port but it isn't necessary.

Note that if you cross first and then apply, the situation is different depending on whether you showed up and made a claim (affirmative asylum) or you were caught without papers and then make a claim (defensive asylum).

 

[Valcazar]

It doesn't matter what I think or you think. Americans just want problems solved and the border is a problem. They don't give a shit about the arcane laws and UNHRC mandates. I think Canadians feel the same way about "just solve the fuckin' problem", but many of you can't seem to see the issue in a realistic manner. The shit you see on American cable news is screwing up your perception of how Americans think and feel. Canada has no problem like this.

Sure it does.
Canadian politicians love to whip up "illegal immigrant" panic. It just hasn't been quite as effective as in the US because there are less people dedicated to the narrative.
It's still a solid and well-used political play, though.

 

[Valcazar]

On MERB, Valcazar would always make this point about Newt.

It ignores a very important historical fact. The Republicans won the House in 1994 for the first time since 1955. I wouldn't underestimate how competitive parties makes for divisive politics. I wouldn't necessarily want a political system where the party differences were not crystal clear.

The push for more distinct parties began long before Newt.
That the US had non-ideologically sorted parties was a sort of historical accident in some ways.
Newt pushed for the specific use of parliamentary-like voting discipline, which in a system set up like the US turns out to be devastating in terms of blocking anything useful getting done.
This has nothing to do with the GOP winning for the first time since 1955 since the primary power of doing things that way was to wield power from the minority and Newt was pushing for it before that.

No one studying this doesn't think Newt's embrace and use of the tactics from a position of real influence wasn't a turning point.

He did not invent them out of whole cloth, no. But just like Trump's embrace of authoritarianism was not NEW for the GOP, it marks an inflection point because the rest of the party is going along with it.

 

[Valcazar]

- if you turn yourself in after crossing a border illegally, you're still an illegal.
- asking for a refugee status doesn't automatically guarantee that status or else EVERY single illegal would do just that

#1 is just simply untrue as I pointed out earlier.
#2 is obviously true - there is a whole system involved

 

[Valcazar]

Butler1000 deserves credit. He gets a lot of grief from the left-leaning members for not entirely sticking to the left's script. (Is it me? Or does he sound a bit like journalist Glenn Greenwald?)

Whoa, whoa.
I don't like Butler1000 much, but comparing him to Greenwald seems below the belt.
You could pick someone less awful who is in that "I am left but I think the real enemy is always the Democrats" group.

 

[WyattEarp]

The problem with your theory is that those crimes are down. Murder and manslaughter (homicide) is up. Aggravated assault is up.
Rape and Robbery are down. Property crime is down except for motor vehicle theft.
(This is according to the FBI numbers that came out last month. There are probably subtleties in the details.)

FBI Releases 2020 Crime Statistics | Federal Bureau of Investigation

For the first time in four years, the estimated number of violent crimes in the nation increased when compared with the previous year’s statistics.

www.fbi.gov

" The 2020 statistics show the estimated rate of violent crime was 387.8 offenses per 100,000 inhabitants, and the estimated rate of property crime was 1,958.2 offenses per 100,000 inhabitants. The violent crime rate rose 5.2 percent when compared with the 2019 rate; the property crime rate declined 8.1 percent.

Quick refresher that for this report:
violent crimes = murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.
property crimes = burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft

It wasn't a theory of any sort or substance. Republicans aren't actually calling in fake property crimes and filing insurance claims.

 

[WyattEarp]

Canadian politicians love to whip up "illegal immigrant" panic. It just hasn't been quite as effective as in the US because there are less people dedicated to the narrative.
It's still a solid and well-used political play, though.

I'm sorry. I simply have a hard time believing Canada has the same magnitude of problem with illegal immigration.

The Far Left has been trying to redefine what is illegal immigration for twenty, thirty years in the U.S. That opens it up to be a fair political issue. Immigration has been debated for decades and decades in the U.S. as it should be.

 

[mandrill]

I'm sorry. I simply have a hard time believing Canada has the same magnitude of problem with illegal immigration.

The Far Left has been trying to redefine what is illegal immigration for twenty, thirty years in the U.S. That opens it up to be a fair political issue. Immigration has been debated for decades and decades in the U.S. as it should be.

Ok. I'm waiting to hear you explain this one.

How has "the Far Left been trying to redefine what is illegal immigration in the US"!

There are 2 basic issues that I can perceive:

1). Amnesty for long term illegals, including the Dreamers issue.
2). Refugee claimants.

The refugee claims component has been in place since the 1960's and it's defined in your own statute. So how can that be "redefined". You either make a refugee claim, or you don't. If you do, you get a refugee hearing.

In the former case, long term illegals are illegals. The question is one of policy. Whether it's just simpler and fairer to give a pathway to legality - as Canada does.

How is "the Far Left" attempting to "redefine" any of this stuff? It's perfectly clear already.

So explain yourself. I'll wait.

 

[mandrill]

I'm sorry. I simply have a hard time believing Canada has the same magnitude of problem with illegal immigration.

The Far Left has been trying to redefine what is illegal immigration for twenty, thirty years in the U.S. That opens it up to be a fair political issue. Immigration has been debated for decades and decades in the U.S. as it should be.

Canada doesn't have the same degree of problem with illegal immigration. It's buffered by the US and the oceans. The Right still uses "illegal immigrants" as a hot button rabble-rouser issue. My all-time favourite was when the bullshit crap-rag The Toronto Sun claimed that Trudeau was giving Islamic terrorists money to enter Canada and that said Islamists were slaughtering goats in downtown Toronto hotels on the taxpayers' paycheque.

Some of your esteemed colleagues on TERB were convinced that that news report was actually true and accurate. Such is TERB.

 

[Valcazar]

I'm sorry. I simply have a hard time believing Canada has the same magnitude of problem with illegal immigration.

It doesn't.
That doesn't mean people don't use it as a political maneuver.