Will There Be Another American Revolution?

[WyattEarp]

You going to answer my question or just fuck around?

Is this what your referencing? "I'm waiting for you to review the change in policies that the Biden administration has made and give me links and sources."

I sense that the Biden Administration is trying to get back to some more sensible application of immigration law. I believe it got away from the Biden Administration very quickly. Maybe the Biden Administration is a victim of their own rhetoric. I can't believe you can't see the tone was changed. Trump clearly said the border was closed. The Biden Administration was bashing the wall and bashing Trump's border policies. Perception can be far more important than the reality.

I hope you were joking that Republican activists were in Central America organizing caravans. Those "racists" wouldn't invite Latinos to come to the U.S. under any condition. Lol.

 

[mandrill]

Is this what your referencing? "I'm waiting for you to review the change in policies that the Biden administration has made and give me links and sources."

I sense that the Biden Administration is trying to get back to some more sensible application of immigration law. I believe it got away from the Biden Administration very quickly. Maybe the Biden Administration is a victim of their own rhetoric. I can't believe you can't see the tone was changed. Trump clearly said the border was closed. The Biden Administration was bashing the wall and bashing Trump's border policies. Perception can be far more important than the reality.

I hope you were joking that Republican activists were in Central America organizing caravans. Those racists wouldn't invite Latinos to come to the U.S. under any condition. Lol.

The illegal immigration pressure on the Southern border is largely driven by economic and social conditions in those home countries. 20 years ago there was social and economic unrest in Mexico and illegal immigration spiked. Now it's Central America. It will likely subside in a couple of years time. Or possibly not.

I don't believe that the Biden administration EVER had "soft on illegals" policies or attitudes. Again, give me proof. I'm waiting. Biden always put into play exactly the same policies as Trump. It's politically too costly for him not to. His treatment of the Haitians was about as ruthless - and probably as illegal - as anything Trump ever did.

So the fact that Biden somehow "caused" the current illegal immigration spike is about as well-founded as saying Trump caused the "caravan" back in 2019(?). It's unconnected.

Now someone may be spreading rumours that the US is easy to walk into. And who are the most likely subjects? Narco gangs? Sure..... Russia? Probably. They do all sorts of other shit..... Republicans?.... Do they really care if a few thousand more Centroamericanos eventually end up in San Antonio or El Paso? I don't think they do. They get far more of a political payoff by boosting caravan-phobia on Fox News. So I think some Republican interests might be provoking the caravans to come north as well.

I mean, look at the parade of GOP assholes and their involvement w COVID. You think Abbott, Parsons or DeSantis really gives a half-shit about their own - or anyone else's - idea of what's best for the USA, racist or not?! It's all about getting into power and getting that sweet, sweet payoff that power brings you. That's worth letting a few Guatemalans into Texas for any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[WyattEarp]

There are practical legal and political sides to the illegal immigration crisis.

I believe that what has been described as hard and fast laws pertaining to "refugee" status is just deception. First, calling them "refugees" is a point of contention. Poverty does not make one a "refugee". The U.S. can ask Mexico to hold anyone while they seek "refugee" status in the U.S. Most are denied "refugee" status. How can we believe that anyone that enters the U.S. illegally without approved "refugee" status will be deported? If that is the case, why do we have such vigilant sanctuary cities? Most Americans including many who vote Democrats see this as a game.

As far as compensating children separated from their parents, how does anyone know that their parents are diligently looking for them? Do you believe that most of them went to the U.S. embassy demanding their children back? If parents send children in the caravans without them, why is unthinkable to think some Central American parents aren't looking for their children?

As far as defending the compensation, I would ask our esteemed liberal (and extremely partisan) colleagues to save their intellectual gymnastics for another argument. These kids are not going to get $450,000 or anything close. First, as I mentioned above it's a legal morass. More importantly, the political backlash would be like dropping napalm on the American electorate. That's the practical side.

 

[WyattEarp]

I don't believe that the Biden administration EVER had "soft on illegals" policies or attitudes. Again, give me proof. I'm waiting. Biden always put into play exactly the same policies as Trump. It's politically too costly for him not to. His treatment of the Haitians was about as ruthless - and probably as illegal - as anything Trump ever did.

I said that I thought the Biden Administration is getting back to sensible border policies. The Biden Administration really might be victims of their own rhetoric.

Biden administration canceling more border wall contracts | CNN Politics

The Biden administration is canceling another slate of border wall contracts -- this time, in the Laredo and Rio Grande Valley sectors, the Department of Homeland Security announced Friday.

www.cnn.com

It doesn't matter what I think or you think. Americans just want problems solved and the border is a problem. They don't give a shit about the arcane laws and UNHRC mandates. I think Canadians feel the same way about "just solve the fuckin' problem", but many of you can't seem to see the issue in a realistic manner. The shit you see on American cable news is screwing up your perception of how Americans think and feel. Canada has no problem like this.

 

[y2kmark]

CSA thought they were participating in another American Revolution. The current situation is devolving into civil war Trump or no Trump. More of a racist war than a race war...

 

[KarlOrff]

It actually began in 2010 and went hot on January 6, 2021. It is very much a rural vs urban, uneducated vs educated, white vs diversity ... and the rural, uneducated whites have a lot more firepower. This is far from settled.

 

[Butler1000]

Because the perception is that he is backed into a corner politically by the GOP and has to act tough on the Border to preserve his political position.

So when you keep what is considered a racist policy in place to try to keep seats thats a good thing?

 

[Butler1000]

Surely, you know that government shutdowns occurred under Carter, Reagan and Bush Sr. You also know that the government budget issues Congress was recently facing were mostly an internal struggle within the Democratic Party.

I do not know how Parliamentary systems form budget agreements. I'm guessing there is a lot more party discipline. I'm not sure how that works when you have a coalition, but you still have less legislators that you have to please.

The one party discipline that U.S. parties seem to have is that they won't pass a budget with a majority coalition pulling from both parties.

Newt was the one that make it a matter of public policy to actively oppose no matter what.

 

[danmand]

There are practical legal and political sides to the illegal immigration crisis.

I believe that what has been described as hard and fast laws pertaining to "refugee" status is just deception. First, calling them "refugees" is a point of contention. Poverty does not make one a "refugee". The U.S. can ask Mexico to hold anyone while they seek "refugee" status in the U.S. Most are denied "refugee" status. How can we believe that anyone that enters the U.S. illegally without approved "refugee" status will be deported? If that is the case, why do we have such vigilant sanctuary cities? Most Americans including many who vote Democrats see this as a game.

As far as compensating children separated from their parents, how does anyone know that their parents are diligently looking for them? Do you believe that most of them went to the U.S. embassy demanding their children back? If parents send children in the caravans without them, why is unthinkable to think some Central American parents aren't looking for their children?

As far as defending the compensation, I would ask our esteemed liberal (and extremely partisan) colleagues to save their intellectual gymnastics for another argument. These kids are not going to get $450,000 or anything close. First, as I mentioned above it's a legal morass. More importantly, the political backlash would be like dropping napalm on the American electorate. That's the practical side.

You and everybody else knows that USA could solve its illegal immigrants problem tomorrow, if it wanted to. USA could do what Canada and literally any other country does: Make it illegal to employ an illegal immigrant. As a matter of fact, USA do have that law on the books, but it is not enforced. There are too many corporations and businesses that rely on illegal immigrants. There would be no harvest of vegetables, fruits and nuts, and there would be no chickens, pork or beef for sale.

If my business hires somebody without a Social Insurance Number, CRA will close me down tout de suite.

 

[jcpro]

Got statistics for that?

My strong impression was that all those "caravan people" turned up at the proper border points and waited for their hearings. At which time, the Trump admin slowed those hearings to a crawl and sent the claimants back to Mexico, where they waited for months, years.... still waiting, I guess.

And since the UNCHR allows people who enter a recipient country illegally simply to walk in, they are still entitled to a hearing - as are their children. So you still don't get to take the kids away and simply "lose" those kids forever, so they never see their parents again. So nice try.

The UNCHR does not supercede the federal law on the books. If it did, the 8US would have been ruled unconstitutional and invalid. As for the separation, the American citizens who break laws and enter the justice system are separated from their children. Nobody has the right to enter another country. Nobody has the right to remain after entering illegaly.

 

[WyattEarp]

You and everybody else knows that USA could solve its illegal immigrants problem tomorrow, if it wanted to. USA could do what Canada and literally any other country does: Make it illegal to employ an illegal immigrant. As a matter of fact, USA do have that law on the books, but it is not enforced. There are too many corporations and businesses that rely on illegal immigrants. There would be no harvest of vegetables, fruits and nuts, and there would be no chickens, pork or beef for sale.

If my business hires somebody without a Social Insurance Number, CRA will close me down tout de suite.

Does Canada have sanctuary cities? You probably have many illegal immigrants, but you don't have a major border problem so it's a tolerable issue.

 

[Butler1000]

Does Canada have sanctuary cities? You probably have many illegal immigrants, but you don't have a major border problem so it's a tolerable issue.

Do we have them. Yes. Having worked in restaurants they are there.

But the USA economy, to a much larger degree has always relied on a permanent controlled underclass to farm, clean, cook, raise their kids, and service the higher classes. Whether outright slavery, to Jim Crow, to Chinese Labor(yep we did that one) to now Central American labor its always been there. With laws to protect owners and beat down/threaten the underclass.

All that has to happen is to enforce the rules on the owners and toss a few in jail. Well publicize it and the jobs dry up. But the lawmakers are guilty of it too. So it won't happen.

 

[Frankfooter]

They were separated at the border BECAUSE they came illegally, but go ahead, reward them with more money than they could've earned in a lifetime.

You think there's a border crisis now? (Which wasn't even acknowledged for a long long time). Wait til the rest of Latin America gets a whiff of this.

They were separated under Trump policy.
Blame Trump.

 

[jcpro]

They were separated under Trump policy.
Blame Trump.

Lie. The DHS has been doing this under Bush, Obama, Trump and now Biden.

 

[mandrill]

The UNCHR does not supercede the federal law on the books. If it did, the 8US would have been ruled unconstitutional and invalid. As for the separation, the American citizens who break laws and enter the justice system are separated from their children. Nobody has the right to enter another country. Nobody has the right to remain after entering illegaly.

The UNCHR has no effect on domestic law - until it is incorporated in a federal statute. It WAS incorporated in a statute. It was made part of the US immigration law back in the 1960's.

Try reading about this stuff sometime.

Your analogy between criminal law and immigration law is not appropriate. They are two different legal regimes. If people are legally making a refugee claim, they are not - and should not - be separated from their familes.

So how about that?.... You were wrong twice.

 

[mandrill]

So when you keep what is considered a racist policy in place to try to keep seats thats a good thing?

The lesser of two evils?

 

[mandrill]

I said that I thought the Biden Administration is getting back to sensible border policies. The Biden Administration really might be victims of their own rhetoric.

Biden administration canceling more border wall contracts | CNN Politics

The Biden administration is canceling another slate of border wall contracts -- this time, in the Laredo and Rio Grande Valley sectors, the Department of Homeland Security announced Friday.

www.cnn.com

It doesn't matter what I think or you think. Americans just want problems solved and the border is a problem. They don't give a shit about the arcane laws and UNHRC mandates. I think Canadians feel the same way about "just solve the fuckin' problem", but many of you can't seem to see the issue in a realistic manner. The shit you see on American cable news is screwing up your perception of how Americans think and feel. Canada has no problem like this.

I don't watch American cable news.

It's nice that the "Americans just want problems solved and the border is a problem".

The border has always been a problem and always will be a problem. It has no "solution". As long as Latin America is poor, brutal and unstable, Latinos will try and get into the USA. Enforcing the border will always be something the US has to do.

What's an "arcane law", Wyatt? Anything you say it is?.... The US hasn't updated its own fucking immigration statutes since the 1960's because immigration is so politicized and your legislative procedures are so inefficient that nothing is ever done. If you ever got around to doing anything, you could do what Canada has done and give long term illegals of good character a road to citizenship and other common sense stuff. But we know that the GOP will always shit on anything like that. So no new law ever gets passed.

The UNCHR is not "arcane". It's no more out of date now than 70 years ago. It's just that the US doesn't like brown people and those are the people who make refugee claims. So the UNCHR is not arcane, it's "inconvenient". Add in that the # of potential claimants is very large and that makes it even more "inconvenient". The true remedy for this is for the USA is to say we resile from the UNCHR. But that involves 2 things. 1) Having the balls to stand up in public and say that while the other Western countries laugh at you. 2) Passing actual legislation that removes the text of the UNCHR from the Immigration Act (or whatever you call it) and we already know that the USA is no longer able to pass legislation of almost any type because your legislative system is so fucked up.

So at the end of the day, your big "find" about Biden's immigration policy is that he doesn't like the wall. I'm impressed that a man of your intellectual luminescence came up with that. You think that wall was EVER going to be built? You think it was EVER more than a cheap-ass vote-getter at Trump rallies?! No one ever took that wall seriously. Even under Trump, about 3 miles out of 2,000 ever got built. You think the people who sneak into America ever took that wall seriously?!

This is what I love about you. You get caught out in a posturing over-statement cheerleading the GOP and then dig yourself in deeper and deeper and deeper as you try and wriggle you way out trouble!

 

[Butler1000]

The lesser of two evils?

The point being they played the race card for votes. Now they own it. Perpetuating a policy they called out as racist and wrong, no matter the reason, sets them up for the same attack.

 

[mandrill]

Does Canada have sanctuary cities? You probably have many illegal immigrants, but you don't have a major border problem so it's a tolerable issue.

No we don't have sanctuary cities. We have realistic non polarizing, common sense solutions and compromises to deal with issues up here in Canada. We're not like the USA.

 

[mandrill]

The point being they played the race card for votes. Now they own it. Perpetuating a policy they called out as racist and wrong, no matter the reason, sets them up for the same attack.

Except no one's going to attack them because that gives a win to the GOP.