Will There Be Another American Revolution?

[WyattEarp]

Newt was the one that make it a matter of public policy to actively oppose no matter what.

On MERB, Valcazar would always make this point about Newt.

It ignores a very important historical fact. The Republicans won the House in 1994 for the first time since 1955. I wouldn't underestimate how competitive parties makes for divisive politics. I wouldn't necessarily want a political system where the party differences were not crystal clear.

 

[Frankfooter]

Lie. The DHS has been doing this under Bush, Obama, Trump and now Biden.

Read the news, jc.
The children and families under consideration for this money were all separated under Trump's rule and by Trump's policies.
Biden is just making right on Trump's nasty actions.

 

[WyattEarp]

No we don't have sanctuary cities. We have realistic non polarizing, common sense solutions and compromises to deal with issues up here in Canada. We're not like the USA.

You're just kidding yourself. On the matter of immigration, you have some of the most secure borders in the world. You can lay out a very defined policy who you will receive and not receive. You can enforce this policy with greater ease.

 

[Frankfooter]

I don't watch American cable news.

It's nice that the "Americans just want problems solved and the border is a problem".

The border has always been a problem and always will be a problem. It has no "solution". As long as Latin America is poor, brutal and unstable, Latinos will try and get into the USA. Enforcing the border will always be something the US has to do.

What's an "arcane law", Wyatt? Anything you say it is?.... The US hasn't updated its own fucking immigration statutes since the 1960's because immigration is so politicized and your legislative procedures are so inefficient that nothing is ever done. If you ever got around to doing anything, you could do what Canada has done and give long term illegals of good character a road to citizenship and other common sense stuff. But we know that the GOP will always shit on anything like that. So no new law ever gets passed.

The UNCHR is not "arcane". It's no more out of date now than 70 years ago. It's just that the US doesn't like brown people and those are the people who make refugee claims. So the UNCHR is not arcane, it's "inconvenient". Add in that the # of potential claimants is very large and that makes it even more "inconvenient". The true remedy for this is for the USA is to say we resile from the UNCHR. But that involves 2 things. 1) Having the balls to stand up in public and say that while the other Western countries laugh at you. 2) Passing actual legislation that removes the text of the UNCHR from the Immigration Act (or whatever you call it) and we already know that the USA is no longer able to pass legislation of almost any type because your legislative system is so fucked up.

So at the end of the day, your big "find" about Biden's immigration policy is that he doesn't like the wall. I'm impressed that a man of your intellectual luminescence came up with that. You think that wall was EVER going to be built? You think it was EVER more than a cheap-ass vote-getter at Trump rallies?! No one ever took that wall seriously. Even under Trump, about 3 miles out of 2,000 ever got built. You think the people who sneak into America ever took that wall seriously?!

This is what I love about you. You get caught out in a posturing over-statement cheerleading the GOP and then dig yourself in deeper and deeper and deeper as you try and wriggle you way out trouble!

Right winger's seem forever stuck trying to treat the symptoms and ignoring the real issues.
If you want less Mexican and South American refugees trying to get into the US you could spend your money more wisely on trying to pressure those governments to deal with their own issues so people don't want to flee. You could also spend some money on cutting CO2 to try to stop the flood of climate change refugees from places like Guatamela.

 

[Drakarys]

The illegal immigration pressure on the Southern border is largely driven by economic and social conditions in those home countries. 20 years ago there was social and economic unrest in Mexico and illegal immigration spiked. Now it's Central America. It will likely subside in a couple of years time. Or possibly not.

I don't believe that the Biden administration EVER had "soft on illegals" policies or attitudes. Again, give me proof. I'm waiting. Biden always put into play exactly the same policies as Trump. It's politically too costly for him not to. His treatment of the Haitians was about as ruthless - and probably as illegal - as anything Trump ever did.

So the fact that Biden somehow "caused" the current illegal immigration spike is about as well-founded as saying Trump caused the "caravan" back in 2019(?). It's unconnected.

Now someone may be spreading rumours that the US is easy to walk into. And who are the most likely subjects? Narco gangs? Sure..... Russia? Probably. They do all sorts of other shit..... Republicans?.... Do they really care if a few thousand more Centroamericanos eventually end up in San Antonio or El Paso? I don't think they do. They get far more of a political payoff by boosting caravan-phobia on Fox News. So I think some Republican interests might be provoking the caravans to come north as well.

I mean, look at the parade of GOP assholes and their involvement w COVID. You think Abbott, Parsons or DeSantis really gives a half-shit about their own - or anyone else's - idea of what's best for the USA, racist or not?! It's all about getting into power and getting that sweet, sweet payoff that power brings you. That's worth letting a few Guatemalans into Texas for any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Convenient memory lapses must be a forte of a Democrat.

Immediately after Biden took over, they started dismantling the wall. The old message was Don't Come Illegaly. New message became Here We Are, No More Walls. The flood of illegals increased.

Joe Biden was "too busy" and Kamala Harris was put in charge of dealing with border crisis. She dodged that responsibility for weeks. Democrats refused to call it a crisis until video and photo footage leaked of kids packed in cages like sardines. Kamals was eventually grilled by their own about visiting the border. All she could do was nervously laugh and claim she was at the border. She finally went, but not to a camp with thousands immigrants. Instead she was sheltered on an army base and received soft questions from rehearsed media. AOC made a similar fake visit to a wall.

Few good points from posts above:

- if you turn yourself in after crossing a border illegally, you're still an illegal.
- asking for a refugee status doesn't automatically guarantee that status or else EVERY single illegal would do just that

Suppose CNN only shows convenient facts to it's audience.

 

[jcpro]

The UNCHR has no effect on domestic law - until it is incorporated in a federal statute. It WAS incorporated in a statute. It was made part of the US immigration law back in the 1960's.

Try reading about this stuff sometime.

Your analogy between criminal law and immigration law is not appropriate. They are two different legal regimes. If people are legally making a refugee claim, they are not - and should not - be separated from their familes.

So how about that?.... You were wrong twice.

Try reading the actual law with the regards to an illegal entry. It has fuck all to do with the UN, councilor.

 

[WyattEarp]

You could also spend some money on cutting CO2 to try to stop the flood of climate change refugees from places like Guatamela.

Do you have evidence (internet facts) that Guatemalan agricultural is down steeply? Now that's how you can personally fact check politicized information. Ask an obvious question that challenges a thesis and has accessible answers.

This was one of the most clever pieces of far left propaganda I have ever seen emerge in recent years. It's the proverbial kill two birds in one stone. The Far Left advocates for a more open border and climate change legislation. The Far Left would never kill a bird of course.

 

[mandrill]

Try reading the actual law with the regards to an illegal entry. It has fuck all to do with the UN, councilor.

That's correct. BUT....

Refugee claimants are allowed to enter illegally and make their claim anyway. The refugee provisions over ride the illegal entry provisions.

 

[mandrill]

Convenient memory lapses must be a forte of a Democrat.
Immediately after Biden took over, they started dismantling the wall. The old message was Don't Come Illegaly. New message became Here We Are, No More Walls. The flood of illegals increased.
Joe Biden was "too busy" and Kamala Harris was put in charge of dealing with border crisis. She dodged that responsibility for weeks. Democrats refused to call it a crisis until video and photo footage leaked of kids packed in cages like sardines. Kamals was eventually grilled by their own about visiting the border. All she could do was nervously laugh and claim she was at the border. She finally went, but not to a camp with thousands immigrants. Instead she was sheltered on an army base and received soft questions from rehearsed media. AOC made a similar fake visit to a wall.
Few good points from posts above:

- if you turn yourself in after crossing a border illegally, you're still an illegal.
- asking for a refugee status doesn't automatically guarantee that status or else EVERY single illegal would do just that

Suppose CNN only shows convenient facts to it's audience.

The wall was never going to be built. I doubt most Central Americans had ever heard of the wall. Or the fact that Biden was not going to continue with it and built another 2 or 3 miles during his term.

There's no "crisis". The problem is always there. It's a bigger problem for a while because Central America is unstable. But that is an external pressure and all the US can do is arrest more people. You may want to hire more ICE and border patrol people. But that's about it. Biden and Harris "visiting the border" does fuck all except make for a photo op.

You're actually NOT an illegal if you make a refugee claim. And you're right. You don't automatically get refugee status just by making a claim. Or else - as you pointed out - everybody would do exactly that. You get a hearing and then most people get sent back home.

 

[mandrill]

You're just kidding yourself. On the matter of immigration, you have some of the most secure borders in the world. You can lay out a very defined policy who you will receive and not receive. You can enforce this policy with greater ease.

You're an expert on Canadian immigration law now?

 

[jcpro]

That's correct. BUT....

Refugee claimants are allowed to enter illegally and make their claim anyway. The refugee provisions over ride the illegal entry provisions.

Which invalidates your points about the family separation and the UN conventions simply because, once the crime has been committed, the conventions cease to apply. The decision to allow the illegals to proceed is a political decision. The illegals are subject to summary removal, if the DHS so wishes and, indeed, it has been doing so for years. They didn't call Obama the "Deporter in Chief" for nothing.

 

[mandrill]

Which invalidates your points about the family separation and the UN conventions simply because, once the crime has been committed, the conventions cease to apply. The decision to allow the illegals to proceed is a political decision. The illegals are subject to summary removal, if the DHS so wishes and, indeed, it has been doing so for years. They didn't call Obama the "Deporter in Chief" for nothing.

Nope.

 

[Butler1000]

On MERB, Valcazar would always make this point about Newt.

It ignores a very important historical fact. The Republicans won the House in 1994 for the first time since 1955. I wouldn't underestimate how competitive parties makes for divisive politics. I wouldn't necessarily want a political system where the party differences were not crystal clear.

What you need is a third party. But it was the overt announcement of it. And in doing so made it a part of the public discourse. The public used to vote for indivuduals as much as parties and expect them to get shit done. Now there are clear battle lines and no crossing is allowed.

So imo it did make a difference.

 

[Butler1000]

Except no one's going to attack them because that gives a win to the GOP.

Yup. Which means border policy doesn't change. Right?

So either Trump wasn't perpetuating Racist Policy or Biden is. Which one is it?

 

[WyattEarp]

You're an expert on Canadian immigration law now?

You certainly welcome to poke holes in my statement. When have you been shy about that?

My statements about Canadian immigration are really not disputed.

 

[mandrill]

Yup. Which means border policy doesn't change. Right?

So either Trump wasn't perpetuating Racist Policy or Biden is. Which one is it?

They both are. But Biden is the lesser of 2 evils.

 

[mandrill]

You certainly welcome to poke holes in my statement. When have you been shy about that?

My statements about Canadian immigration are really not disputed.

Both US and Canadian immigration law carefully and exhaustively define classes of people who may / may not enter and procedures for determining which is which. I don't see how you can make the point that Canadian law is more precisely defined.

 

[Butler1000]

You're an expert on Canadian immigration law now?

Actually he is refering to actual geography I think. And in this we only have one land border. And our sea borders are also pretty secure in comparison as well.

 

[Butler1000]

They both are. But Biden is the lesser of 2 evils.

Did you ever see some of his speeches on the Senate Floor? When he refered to Black people as "Those" people"? And was right in there on perpetuating bad policy for decades. He talks a good game. But his actions say otherwise.

 

[WyattEarp]

Yup. Which means border policy doesn't change. Right?

So either Trump wasn't perpetuating Racist Policy or Biden is. Which one is it?

Butler1000 deserves credit. He gets a lot of grief from the left-leaning members for not entirely sticking to the left's script. (Is it me? Or does he sound a bit like journalist Glenn Greenwald?)

I try not to get caught up in the Biden is responsible for this problem and responsible for that problem. I stuck up for Obama on many occasion. The simple matter is the border crisis is sparking up again. Biden is the President. Americans expect him to deal with the problem.