BDS Can’t Single Out Israel - Israel is the One And Only Occupier of Palestinian Land

[Frankfooter]

It's absolutely about the real estate. Why is real estate specifically mentioned in the Hamas charter, i.e. push all the Jews into the sea so we get ALL the land?

Killing all the Jews is written into the Hamas bylaws.

No, that is not written in their bylaws and they actually did rewrite their charter to support equal rights. It is also in the Likud charter that they want to take over all of 'Eretz' Israel, except the Israel supporters here, like you and contact, seem to have no problem with that.

As for the real estate, I'm talking support here. So sure, Israel is still actively colonizing, aka stealing, what could have been Palestine, but here in this country the discussion is now about racism and human rights, like the BLM movement. Apartheid being about as far as you can get from equal rights.

So while you and toguy, contact and a few others here, have supported the destruction of the state of Palestine and the ongoing pushing of Palestinians into the sea, its all because of race.

No, you'd go into wherever they're shooting from and eliminate their capacity to kill your citizens. No question. And if they were too stubborn to stop, you'd do it again and again until they were incapacitated. That's not racism, that's defending your country.

Israel's not the only ones tired of the mismanagement and rabies of Hamas. Egypt wants nothing to do with them either. Their border is also locked solid against them. And if Hamas lived next to you, you'd feel the same way.

This is a good example of the Islamophobia targeted at Palestinians. First you refuse to say the word 'Palestinian' and instead only talk about Hamas as if that makes all Palestinians 'terrorists' for using the same techniques of war making as Israel does, albeit on a much smaller scale. Hamas doesn't have jets, nukes, drones, tanks or artillery. Israel does and they target them on Gaza, the world's largest open air prison, every time they protest or fight back against the illegal occupation and apartheid.

Bring in the ICC and let them sort it out.
End apartheid.

 

[basketcase]

You believe everything the IDF says and ignore the photos, videos and witness testimony?
...

You believe everything that anyone says against Israel. What's your point?

 

[basketcase]

I thought you supported the two state solution?
If you do, then you should have no problem with 75% wanting to return to the state you pretend to support?

You've lost the thread as usual. I have no problem with it at all.

You seem incapable of getting the fact that most dislike the plans you want forced upon them. This shows quite clearly that the welfare of the Palestinians is of no interest for you, just your obsession with Israel.

Fact is that most Palestinians hate the idea of a One State peace and most refugees and descendants hate the idea of becoming Israeli. That makes both ideas non-starters.

I said when settlers attack with the backing of the IDF they are acting as militants.
If they are unarmed settlers, while they are all committing war crimes on behalf of Israel, they are still civilians and should only be taken to the Hague as war criminals.

Yes, you keep trying to pretend all Jews in the West Bank are legitimate targets because a few are terrorists. You have a long history as franky, groggy, and flubadub trying to dismiss attacks on Jewish civilians in the West Bank because you think Jews have no right to be there (while also pretending you support equal rights for all). And your famous double standard still has you complaining when Palestinians who actively attack Israelis get arrested or shot.

Face it, your rights groups think settlers are civilians and Hamas rockets are war crimes/terrorism, not self defense like you want to pretend.

 

[basketcase]

I will not be silenced until California is returned to Mexico. And Arizona.

Let's not have double standards, now. Don't forget all the disenfranchised Native Peoples who actually own all the real estate on this continent. It all has to go back.

Don't bring up Canada as a colonial power and us all living on stolen land while benefitting from cultural genocide and actual genocide. It confuses him. It's not like he's going to keep a consistent standard when Jews aren't involved.

 

[basketcase]

No, that is not written in their bylaws and they actually did rewrite their charter to support equal rights....

No they did not. The new document is not a charter.

And sorry but they are clear in the start of this new document as well. They also talk at length about how there will be no compromise with the "zionist entity" and re-avows that they think violence is a legitimate tactic. They do claim they aren't at war with Jews in general, just Jews who are in Palestine.

The Land of Palestine
2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras al-Naqurah in the north to Umm al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity.

3. Palestine is an Arab Islamic land. It is a blessed sacred land that has a special place in the heart of every Arab and every Muslim.

Hamas in 2017: The document in full

Hamas explains general principles and objectives in 42-article document

www.middleeasteye.net

You keep talking about how racist it is for Israel to have a state religion but of course you are silent about what Hamas (or for that matter the PA) say about Palestine as an Islamic endeavour.

 

[Frankfooter]

You believe everything that anyone says against Israel. What's your point?

I trust the work of HRW, B'tselem, Yesh Din and the UN.
You believe the apartheid IDF and their war criminals.

That's my point.

 

[Frankfooter]

Fact is that most Palestinians hate the idea of a One State peace and most refugees and descendants hate the idea of becoming Israeli. That makes both ideas non-starters.

Fact is you've given up on the two state solution and admit that there never can be a Palestine for those refugees to return to.
Fact is that the one state apartheid solution is already there and Palestinians really don't want that.

You provide no option but more settler colonialism, apartheid and killing.
I support ending apartheid and giving Palestinians full human rights.

 

[Frankfooter]

No they did not. The new document is not a charter.

And sorry but they are clear in the start of this new document as well. They also talk at length about how there will be no compromise with the "zionist entity" and re-avows that they think violence is a legitimate tactic. They do claim they aren't at war with Jews in general, just Jews who are in Palestine.

The Land of Palestine
2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras al-Naqurah in the north to Umm al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity.

3. Palestine is an Arab Islamic land. It is a blessed sacred land that has a special place in the heart of every Arab and every Muslim.

Hamas in 2017: The document in full

Hamas explains general principles and objectives in 42-article document

www.middleeasteye.net

You keep talking about how racist it is for Israel to have a state religion but of course you are silent about what Hamas (or for that matter the PA) say about Palestine as an Islamic endeavour.

You claim they wanted to kill all Jews, but they say their issues are only with zionists.
Big difference.

16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.

They also say they'd be willing to accept the 1967 borders, which is more than Likud or the Israeli government says today.

However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.

 

[Rako3]

You claim they wanted to kill all Jews, but they say their issues are only with zionists.
Big difference.

16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.

They also say they'd be willing to accept the 1967 borders, which is more than Likud or the Israeli government says today.

However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.

"Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea."

Doesn't seem there's much room for Israelis or Jews there.

You want to talk about being surrounded like a prison camp, Israel has no allies on any of its borders, and attempts were repeatedly made by all of its neighbors to completely obliterate it. That 1967 border was how things were before yet another war that was begun to obliterate Israel and failed -- basically the losers pleading to turn things back to the way they were before they started aggressions. It's like England saying y'know what, we accept how things were in 1775. Well, sorry, that ship has sailed.

The dream of Hamas is a lot of dead Israelis. The dream of Israelis is just being left alone already.

 

[Liminal]

The dream of Hamas is a lot of deadThe dream of Israelis is just being left alone already.

You are living in a completely brainwashed dream world. Here’s video of Israeli troops working with their “settler” militia to terrorize Palestinians, burn their property and destroy their olive trees. Oh yeah….the dream of being left alone. Get a grasp on reality.

And the 67 War was started by Israel. If you want to debate it….bring it on.

WATCH: Settler grabs Israeli soldier’s weapon, fires at Palestinians

Settler attacks in the South Hebron Hills have increased over the past few months, sometimes involving cooperation with soldiers.

www.972mag.com

 

[Frankfooter]

"Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea."

Doesn't seem there's much room for Israelis or Jews there.

They say they would settle for the 1967 borders, but I'm not surprised that you, like most of the Israel supporters don't think that's enough of Palestine.

However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.

You want to talk about being surrounded like a prison camp, Israel has no allies on any of its borders, and attempts were repeatedly made by all of its neighbors to completely obliterate it. That 1967 border was how things were before yet another war that was begun to obliterate Israel and failed -- basically the losers pleading to turn things back to the way they were before they started aggressions. It's like England saying y'know what, we accept how things were in 1775. Well, sorry, that ship has sailed.

Israel is occupying parts of Syria and Lebanon and today shelled Lebanon, last week they bombed Syria. Don't blame the neighbours when Israel keeps taking their land, like they did with the Palestinians.
If you want peace, hand back their land and let the 5 million refugees those neighbours are housing for you back.

The dream of Hamas is a lot of dead Israelis. The dream of Israelis is just being left alone already.

That's just Islamaphobic hate speech, where you accuse all Palestinians of being genocidal.
And you ignore that Israel every day is trying to colonize, or steal, more of Palestine through new settlements. That's hardly being left alone, that's the opposite, actively taking someone's home by military force.

 

[basketcase]

I trust the work of HRW, B'tselem, Yesh Din and the UN.
...

So why do you disagree with them so openly about Jews in the West Bank being civilians and about Hamas rockets being completely unjustified?

 

[basketcase]

Fact is you've given up on the two state solution and admit that there never can be a Palestine for those refugees to return to.
Fact is that the one state apartheid solution is already there and Palestinians really don't want that.

You provide no option but more settler colonialism, apartheid and killing.
I support ending apartheid and giving Palestinians full human rights.

Wow. You really have invented your own reality.

I support a Two State peace. Canada supports a Two State peace. The UN (who you just say you support) says a Two State peace is the only workable solution. Far more importantly, it is the option with the highest support among both Palestinians (not that you care) and Israelis.

You just seem upset because I recognize that Hamas refusing to consider the idea, the PA repeatedly rejecting deals, and the majority of the Palestinian people being opposed to peace talks are huge stumbling blocks. Yes, there are stumbling blocks on the Israeli side but it is dumb for you to pretend that Israel can unilaterally create peace when one of the two Palestinian governments are completely op[posed to the concept.

 

[basketcase]

You claim they wanted to kill all Jews, ...

Where did I say that?

They want to remove "zionmist " Jews from the region which in previous statements includes every Jew who wasn't living there in 1919.

Amazing that you continue to support Hamas despite them representing everything you claim to reject (other than they share your view about Israel.

 

[basketcase]

They say they would settle for the 1967 borders, but I'm not surprised that you, like most of the Israel supporters don't think that's enough of Palestine.

However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.

...

I love how you lap up self-contradictory statements like that when it fits your agenda.

They can not make peace along the '67 lines unless they accept the "Zionist entity" which make sit clear that they won't see a Two State peace as ending the conflict, merely a step.

More significantly, I love how you excluded the preceding sentence from that quote.

20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.


As I said, Hamas rejects the idea of peace with Israel yet being the peace crusader you are, you are happy to make excuses for them.

 

[basketcase]

You are living in a completely brainwashed dream world. ...

I know you guys hate it when people actually listen to what Palestinians say.

 

[Liminal]

So why do you disagree with them so openly about Jews in the West Bank being civilians and about Hamas rockets being completely unjustified?

Like these Israeli’s?

WATCH: Settler grabs Israeli soldier’s weapon, fires at Palestinians

Settler attacks in the South Hebron Hills have increased over the past few months, sometimes involving cooperation with soldiers.

www.972mag.com

 

[Zoolooo]

I know you guys hate it when people actually listen to what Palestinians say.

Holy! 5 posts in 9 minutes. Quantity, not quality. And I like how you don’t restrict yourself to making sure response has any relationship to the post you are quoting. That takes a lot of pressure off you.

 

[basketcase]

Like these Israeli’s?
...

I love how you guys use one asshole who deserves jail time to justify attacks on any Jew in the West Bank while at the same time complaining when Israel acts against people directly involved in violence.

 

[basketcase]

Holy! 5 posts in 9 minutes. Quantity, not quality. And I like how you don’t restrict yourself to making sure response has any relationship to the post you are quoting. That takes a lot of pressure off you.

Thankfully you posts never have to worry about quality.

BTW. If you are worried about obsessive behaviour on here, you might want to give your buddy frank some advice.