I am not surprised, I thought you were pretty slow, now you have proven it. Saying you don't understand a simple set of facts and circumstances is just an admission of slow-wittedness.
Are there still naysayers over the delayed 2nd shot plan?
- Thread starter nottyboi
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But that is actually an argument for the Feds having done a really good job.
Given severe constraints, they had to make educated choices with the information they had about what to do to still keep their population protected.
That they oversold those choices in their messaging and should be criticized for that, sure, but it always seemed clear to me they were making their choices this way.
Your only mistake is saying "there was nothing scientific" about it, when they obviously had to use the science to make the choices they did.
No, it’s not an endorsement of their approach at all. They’ve made several missteps and errors. I’m happy that we are close to getting everyone vaxxed, but they did a shit job. The end result doesn’t change that. Bunch of incompetent fools. But Not their fault; we voted in individuals who can’t think and chew gum at the same time.
Not science, math and social political factors.
Math in that Simone said “hey how many vaccines do we have” to which the answer was not nearly enough to vax one city, ok so let’s tell everyone they have to wait up to four months for the second dose.
My personal fav (Ford): April so we are going to make Teachers a top priority like health care workers, and seniors and we also will closed the schools, Teachers will work isolated at home for the rest of the years.
How exactly is Canada's vaccination success a 'shit job'?
Why do you have to ignore the end results, just because they were successful?
Um.
The messaging they gave a few months ago was it was ACTUALLY BETTER to wait 4 months than get it within the time line.
Then three months and now we are within 6 weeks people getting appointments. So no it was never about science but supply and propaganda to prevent people losing their shit on them. It was pure lies imo. And the only reason we are getting the amount we are getting now is because the USA doesn't need it due to their own vaccine deniers. It will expire so we are getting it along with other nations.
Trudeau has nothing to do with the windfall. We got lucky. Thats it.
A few months ago it was best for the country to get as many people a single shot as possible.
Now that they supply is better and there are new variants coming its best for the country to get people a second shot as soon as possible.
The situation changes as does the needs and the medical information.
OMG can you not keep up with the data? The reason they want to accelerate 2nd doses is a) the Delta Variant is more resistant on a single dose. b) there are more vaccines available faster then expected and c) normalization of international travel will require 2 doses. 12 weeks does offer better immunity then 3 weeks, but that only arrives in about 15 weeks. Comprende? So why do you care about the reasons we are getting vaccine. The USA has enough, they can cancel their export ban. I have not read anything about 8 weeks vs 12weeks ve 16 weeks. I am not sure all that data exists. The reason the 12wk data exists is because that is what the UK went with.
It was a lie. They continue to fly by the seat of their pants. If the USA hadn't released the vaccine they would still be saying its better to wait to cover their asses.
I'm happy we are getting the vaccines. The Trudeau government gets zero credit for it. They did nothing. It was all due to lack of USA demand. Just admit it and move on.
Of course they wanted to accelerate the doses. Are you really going to try to push that if there had been enough at the onset to do 21 days later the govt would have purposefully delayed handing them out over the recommendations of the manufacturer? That Trudeau would have said to the Canadian people its better to wait 9 more weeks?
Seriously? Stop giving credit where it isn't due.
Yeah and how would you know that? Do you not realize everyone is somewhat flying by the seat of their pants? How are you in a position to say anything they are doing is wrong? Even the experts have fucked up. Lets face it, you hate Trudeau and are just making shit up to justify your hatred. Your claim they are pulling things out of their ass, is definitely pulled out of your ass.
I know you don't think it is, but it clearly can be used as one.
Which was the right call.
They looked at the science, saw the argument for "vax more partially and break up the transmission rate rather than vax fewer completely and leave it to spread" and decided to take that route.
Like you said, their decision was based on the supply constraints. That they did such a good job based on those supply constraints is something people can argue shows their skill.
If you want to argue "if they were competent they never would have been stuck with those supply constraints" go ahead.
If you say so.
I don't remember that, but sure. Like I said, I think people have every right to criticize their messaging that the decision was actually better than the one they would have made if they weren't supply constrained.
That's an argument about his ability to get supply.
You want to argue the messaging go ahead, I don't disagree.
But the actual decision list presented is a list of "we're fucked by supply so make the calls we can" which shows a pretty strong track record of success.
Yet NONE of these clowns can say to any degree of detail how the supply constraint could have been averted. Then they complain about the govt reaching out to our CLOSEST ALLY to obtain more vax, then they complain about the lack of dignity about us receiving vax from our allys. Ideological hatred is just clear as daylight. The only thing that would make them happy is failure, so they can say AH HA!!! I TOLD YOU SO.
This was a fast moving emergency, and the govt kept adapting to the latest data available. People are so troubled by these changes. Its really sad how people cannot deal with even small changes. They expect the govt to not change its position even if there is better and more accurate data?
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Lol. So the experts fucked up but Trudeau didn't? Everyone is flying by the seats if their pants but that is a good thing?
Again. Are you saying if the supply had been there Trudeau would have purposefully delayed the shots by nine weeks against the Manufacturers recommendations because a few experts said so? Yes or no.
The experts adjusted as studies and new variants came in.
The gov't adjusted as vaccines were proven successful and available and medical advice changed.
The WHO said wash your groceries at first and no masks, do you think Trudeau should have stuck with that advice and not changed?
Lots of people think that way though.
I do think Trudeau probably had more leverage to push on deliveries than he used. I was quite critical of him for announcing promises for deliveries as actual victories/done deals.
That said, his "over buy in all directions so that we have lots of redundancy" seems to have been a good approach, even if it ended up with a slow start up.
I really would like to see a good study of how the government actually framed each shift. My recollection is they did acknowledge the supply constraints but leaned hard enough into "we have data that says it is ok" that it got reported as "The government is changing now because they say the new approach is better". Certainly others on the board remember it as "The government is saying the new approach is better." so some people perceived it that way.
If we go back and look at the actual announcements, I would be interested in what we would find.
For instance, I clearly remember that when Quebec announced they were stretching the shots out they were very clear that it was because of supply problems and they were banking on "more people partly resistant" being a better strategy. That other science suggesting the longer interval was better resistance came out later and wasn't part of the original messaging.
That could be a false memory though, made just because I was reading more than just the Quebec government press releases. Maybe they were much more slippery with their actual announcement.
No. What makes you think he would? I can't imagine a scenario where that would have happened. If the supply had been there they would have done it at the 3week/4week period. With only suggestive data it is better and plenty of shots going around, they would have stuck to the manufacturer's recommendation. Maybe if first shot coverage was really fast and numbers were plummeting they might have suggested holding off on shot two to get a better result but even then I would doubt it.
Come on Butler, you know Justin did a fantastic job under the conditions he was presented with!
This just solidifies a stronger win with more seat gains in the soon-to-be Canadian Federal Election.
It was never sold as being better for the individual, but as better for Canada as it could stop the spread faster. Later on there were indications that a longer interval provided stronger immunity. But the delay was always discussed as a plan to do most with the available doses. It was never suggested it was the "preferred option" .
And let the backpedaling begin Trudeau fucked up no othe country in the world was delaying for four months there was no science or evidence it was OK to do so when they decided that. someone should go back and add up all the doses that Trudeau promised he had on the way to Canada he spent more time promising they were on their way than actually delivering
I bet the liberals are going to declare the entire procurement of the vaccine a cabinet secret so they can prevent any investigation we will never be allowed know the mistakes they made and how much money they blew
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