Family in London mowed down by driver

[Frankfooter]

Only for people like you that see people as statistics.

Killing 5 guys launching terror rockets is far less of a problem than 1 person killed while shopping. Also in law, the intent has a huge impact on the charges and punishment. Trying to kill active combatants and accidentally killing innocent civilians is less problematic than trying to kill civilians.

Killing entire families is not only a problem, is a war crime and/or terrorism.
Targeting media outlets, hospitals, schools, residential towers and civilian infrastructure is not a 'problem' its a war crime and/or state terrorism.

You are justifying war crimes here, basketcase.
Read the facts on international law and please stop justifying war crimes.

And killing 10-20x the number of civilians is not a 'problem' its a war crime of disproportionate response.
All this to defend apartheid, the occupation and rule over what is known as the 'world's largest open air prison'.
This Islamaphobia you show towards Palestinians puts you on the wrong side of this argument about race.

Q&A: 2021 Hostilities between Israel and Palestinian Armed Groups

 

[basketcase]

Most would think the oppressed is the lesser evil of the 2 though.

If you only take a superficial view. For example, Tamils in Sri Lanka are an oppressed minority but that doesn't make the actions of the Tamil Tigers acceptable. Catholics in Ulster feel themselves an oppressed but that doesn't justify the bombing campaigns of the IRA. Like most conflicts, the solution is a political one and is made less likely by the use of terrorism.

On the other hand, Tibetans are an oppressed minority but outside of China's influence, they aren't seen as a threat because they don't use that oppression as an excuse to commit terrorism.

 

[basketcase]

Killing entire families...

So keep on playing to emotion and statistics.

A family killed in a strike on a military target is not a war crime (as long as the civilian risk outweighs the military benefit). A suicide bombing at a restaurant, a drive by on civilians at a bus stop, or indiscriminate rockets fired at cities are war crimes under every possible definition.

But I recall you repeatedly trying to claim that Hamas was actually aiming these unguidable rockets at military sites and are legitimate self defence despite what those rights groups say so you're hardly a reasonable commentator.

 

[contact]

Killing entire families is not only a problem, is a war crime and/or terrorism.
Targeting media outlets, hospitals, schools, residential towers and civilian infrastructure is not a 'problem' its a war crime and/or state terrorism.

You are justifying war crimes here, basketcase.
Read the facts on international law and please stop justifying war crimes.

And killing 10-20x the number of civilians is not a 'problem' its a war crime of disproportionate response.
All this to defend apartheid, the occupation and rule over what is known as the 'world's largest open air prison'.
This Islamaphobia you show towards Palestinians puts you on the wrong side of this argument about race.

Q&A: 2021 Hostilities between Israel and Palestinian Armed Groups

another lie from frank


No its NOT a crime

designated terrorist are criminals

supporting terrorists IS a criminal offence

hiding behind women and children like the terrorist cowards hamas do IS a crime

using civilian buildings INCLUDING schools and hospitals for military purposes IS a crime

targeting armed groups who attack your country is 100% legal if those terrorist cowards hamas hide among civilians and use them as cover to launch attacks those civilian deaths are 100% on hamas

 

[basketcase]

EGYPT is a whataboutism

So an excuse to avoid discussion of aid to Gaza. Why should Israel be responsible for the people under Hamas rule and not Egypt (especially as Gaza was essentially formed as a result of Egypt's invasion of Mandate Palestine in 1949)? Hamas has issues with Egypt's government (and the other way around) but one would think that a border that avoids a significant conflict would be an ideal portal for international aid.

I'm quite happy to discuss the conflict in detail but I would hope that you would take the time to read up on it before hand so we don't have to waste time with the basics.
A few suggestions for a well rounded view.
The question of Palestine : Edward Said
My Promised Land: Ari Shavit
Israel; a History: Martin Gilbert
1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War: Benny Morris
Six Days of War: Michael Oren
The Iron Cage: Rashid Khalidi
Palestine Betrayed: Efrain Kharsh

All discussions should start from a place of knowledge.

 

[basketcase]

What other country has put walls around one part of their population and then starved them to the point that 10% of the children are permanently stunted?
...

Maybe their leaders amassing personal fortunes and wasting money on trying to destroy another group are part of the problem.

 

[basketcase]

...
Canada is by far one of the most multiculturally accepting places in the world
...

True but also a sad statement on the rest of the world. Canadians in multicultural cities aren't as bad but small towns with little exposure to other groups are still pretty bad (like this Veltman fuck).

 

[Frankfooter]

So keep on playing to emotion and statistics.

A family killed in a strike on a military target is not a war crime (as long as the civilian risk outweighs the military benefit). A suicide bombing at a restaurant, a drive by on civilians at a bus stop, or indiscriminate rockets fired at cities are war crimes under every possible definition.

But I recall you repeatedly trying to claim that Hamas was actually aiming these unguidable rockets at military sites and are legitimate self defence despite what those rights groups say so you're hardly a reasonable commentator.

I'm referring to international law, not emotion.
1 - Killing a family sleeping in their home is a war crime, if you argue that it was a military target you have to prove it and until you do, its a war crime.
2 - You also have to prove its not a 'disproportionate response', which given the deaths and the destruction in Gaza, is going to be very hard
3 - Killing a military leader at home with their family is a war crime.
4 - Targeting media outlets, hospitals, schools, residential towers are all assumed war crimes, like state terrorism, until you prove that they were legit military targets. Israel has not done so.
Its all here:

Q&A: 2021 Hostilities between Israel and Palestinian Armed Groups

The following questions and answers address issues relating to international humanitarian law (the laws of war) governing the armed conflict between Israel and Hamas, Islamic Jihad,

www.hrw.org

You mean the trucks that enter Gaza from Israel every day? There don't seem to be regular shipments through Egypt so his comment is a valid one.

That's because Israel is the military power occupying and ruling Gaza.
Not Egypt, they listen to Israel on this issue.

 

[basketcase]

...

Those stunted children you are worrying about will join Hamas and suicide bomb their oppressors instead of simply giving up and leaving

Sorry but that isn't an acceptable view. The people of Gaza need to get their leaders to reject agendas of destruction but the children aren't at fault.

Of course Hamas' long history of stealing aid to either sell at a profit or build more military gets in the way as well. In my view, Israel should be making daily broadcast telling people in Gaza exactly what aid is shipped in so they can hold their leaders accountable but Hamas would simply persecute anyone they thought was listening.

 

[Frankfooter]

Maybe their leaders amassing personal fortunes and wasting money on trying to destroy another group are part of the problem.

Why are you spending so much time demonizing Muslims on this thread?
Can't you just show some sympathy towards the community instead of going on and on about how evil Palestinians are?

Canada just suffered an act of terrorism and all you are doing here is spreading more hate.

 

[Frankfooter]

Sorry but that isn't an acceptable view. The people of Gaza need to get their leaders to reject agendas of destruction but the children aren't at fault.

Of course Hamas' long history of stealing aid to either sell at a profit or build more military gets in the way as well. In my view, Israel should be making daily broadcast telling people in Gaza exactly what aid is shipped in so they can hold their leaders accountable but Hamas would simply persecute anyone they thought was listening.

Israel has been running a blockade around Gaza since 2007.
Stop trying to blame the occupied people living in the world's largest open air prison, blame the prison guards.
The collective punishment of Palestinians in Gaza is a war crime, regardless of your views of Hamas.

UN envoy: Gaza an open-air prison
John Holmes tells Al Jazeera that Israel’s siege is resulting in misery for Palestinians.

Gaza Blockade

www.ochaopt.org

 

[basketcase]

I'm referring to international law, not emotion.
1 - Killing a family sleeping in their home is a war crime, ...

repeating your stupid claim doesn't make it true.

International law says attacks that accidentally kill civilians are not war crimes.
International law says attacks that knowingly kill civilians while striking a significant military target are not a war crime.
If you want to prove Israel is guilty of war crimes, you need to prove either that Israel was intentionally trying to kill civilians like Hamas does or prove that the military value of the targets was not high enough to justify the civilian deaths. Go ahead and prove those (of course you only need proof of crimes if it's Hamas; you're happy to accuse Israel of anything simply because someone tweeted a picture.)


Targeting civilians is a war crime as is indiscriminate fire at civilian areas. Hamas does both of those but even the UN chief for refugees in Gaza said Israeli fire wasn't indiscriminate even if civilians died.

 

[Frankfooter]

repeating your stupid claim doesn't make it true.

Its really quite sad when a legal position paper from Human Rights Watch to you is a 'stupid claim'.

Your opinion is apparently based on your hatred of Muslims and specifically Palestinians.
This is a legit opinion, for contrast.

Israel’s Gaza strikes may constitute ‘war crimes’: UN’s Bachelet
UN rights chief Michelle Bachelet says Israeli attacks resulted in extensive civilian deaths and major destruction in besieged enclave, home to two million people.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

So they were hinting on the news his lawyer might be filing a NCR defense: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/annualstatutes/2014_6/page-1.html

That means he possibly suffers from mental disease.
Sorry to burst the right-wing terror bubble

 

[basketcase]

Israel has been running a blockade around Gaza since 2007.
...

Yes, Israel has been enforcing border restrictions on their border since 2007. In case you missed it, that was 2 years after Israel evacuated every Israeli from Gaza.

Despite the embargo on weapons and occasionally dual use items, Israel has shipped in thousands of trucks of aid, thousands of litters of fuel and millions of megawatt-hours of electricity every month. And despite construction supplies being limited to UN and other charitable causes, Hamas has managed to build a massive underground complex all over Gaza. Just as one example of Hamas' theft, Qatar sent millions to Gaza meant as direct payments for people in need yet Hamas took 40% of that money for themselves.

And how much aid has shipped in through Egypt? Oh that's right, you think Israel is forcing Egypt to not send aid.

Again, how many malnourished Palestinians are their in the PA ruled West Bank where their agenda is not endless war with Israel?

 

[basketcase]

Its really quite sad...

Do you know the meaning of the word "may"?

As I said. It could be war crimes if the strikes on civilians were intentional or that the military value was smaller than the civilian risk.

As I said, you never care about what investigations say when you can condemn israel while insisting we wait for the ICC before we're allowed to criticize Hamas (even when Hamas admits they are committing war crimes or terrorism).

 

[basketcase]

So they were hinting on the news his lawyer might be filing a NCR defense: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/annualstatutes/2014_6/page-1.html

That means he possibly suffers from mental disease.
Sorry to burst the right-wing terror bubble

Are you suggesting that mental illness means there was no hate motivations? Seems rather inconsistent with your statements about the Danforth shooting.

the guy is entitled to a defence but it's up to the court to see if it has any merit.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Are you suggesting that mental illness means there was no hate motivations?

Of course there was hate. There's just no evidence yet its right-wing hate.
Are you saying left-wingers cant hate?? How do you know he's not a Liberal (assuming he even votes)??

 

[basketcase]

Of course there was hate. There's just no evidence yet its right-wing hate.
Are you saying left-wingers cant hate?? How do you know he's not a Liberal (assuming he even votes)??

I know there are broad categories but hatred of Muslims doesn't seem that common on the left. Communists and anarchists might be against all religion but they don't specifically target Muslims.
At the same time, obsessions about Muslims are quite common from right wing sources.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I know there are broad categories but hatred of Muslims doesn't seem that common on the left. Communists and anarchists might be against all religion but they don't specifically target Muslims.
At the same time, obsessions about Muslims are quite common from right wing sources

Okay, so you admit you have no evidence of right-wing terror then??