Ok, I'll tell you before you twist yourself into a commie loving pretzel. The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact shifted the Soviet border to the Bug river- hundreds of kilometers West, thus giving the Soviets extra space and time to grind the German advance to stand still by December 41. It also extended the German supply lines and denied the Wermacht quarters, shelter and infrastructure. Without the extra strategic depth Moscow would have fallen by July, August at the latest along with Leningrad and Stalingrad would have never even happened. That's the main reason Germany lost the war in the East at the signing of the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact.
76th Victory Day parade
- Thread starter nottyboi
- Start date
Well, it just shows you did not live in Moscow or in Russia for a substantial amount of time. I am happy you did not go as far as saying that there is a public support of police in Russia.1.3M is a tiny amount of money. Soldiers are much better of praticing for a parade then marching in some camp. Its a HUGE moral booster and a huge honor to get to march at the V Day parade. All the logistics equipment is already there, all the pilots get training anc currency hours that need to be flown anyway. The whole military gets a small logistics exercise to prepare for a secruity emergency in Moscow. Some sections on the route are closed of course but its not that long. Military do not have that many "useful things" to do during peace time. They train and prepare, this is a small part of that. Just like we send the snowbirds and do display flying. the extra cost is really minimal, vs the huge boost to militray morale and public support for the military.
That is EXACTLY why the Russian agreed. They wanted a buffer. It would act as a defensive buffer or a forward postion for launching an offensive. In either, they wanted it. what you don't say is why HITLER wanted it. But you assume if Germany attacked Poland without the Pact, that Russia would have just stood there and done nothing? Well that rediculous. The red army would likely have poured in there and things woulda got pretty sporty for Germany. The British and French emboldened by the Soviet attack would have opened up another front and attacked Germany. from France. This is what Hitler feared, fighting on two fronts. And as I said, Hitler had no idea that Poland would fold like a house of cards. The Polish forces were quite powerful on paper and even in reality. They were poorly led and had very out moded tactics.Ok, I'll tell you before you twist yourself into a commie loving pretzel. The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact shifted the Soviet border to the Bug river- hundreds of kilometers West, thus giving the Soviets extra space and time to grind the German advance to stand still by December 41. It also extended the German supply lines and denied the Wermacht quarters, shelter and infrastructure. Without the extra strategic depth Moscow would have fallen by July, August at the latest along with Leningrad and Stalingrad would have never even happened. That's the main reason Germany lost the war in the East at the signing of the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact.
Well I know that, I don't even like the Canadian police very much. I have never been to Moscow. But for the Russian military 1.3M is nothing. The budget is about $62B USD. The VDay parade also has a role for peace. SHowing all the weapons is an important part of deterrence. It is now part of the Russian cultural identity. Toronto shut down the city to celebrate a basketball championship...Well, it just shows you did not live in Moscow or in Russia for a substantial amount of time. I am happy you did not go as far as saying that there is a public support of police in Russia.
I'm going to leave this conversation because I am interested in history, but not in Soviet era propaganda. Your points have no basis in the historical facts, simply. Let me just leave you with this- Germany achieved complete and total tactical and STRATEGIC surprise on the 21st of June 1941. No one ever can achieve that on a 2000 kilometers long front with a couple of million of men on the other side of the border unless the opposition is completely at ease and assured of the peaceful intention. In other words, Stalin considered Hitler a trusted ally despite of all intelligence- foreign and domestic.That is EXACTLY why the Russian agreed. They wanted a buffer. It would act as a defensive buffer or a forward postion for launching an offensive. In either, they wanted it. what you don't say is why HITLER wanted it. But you assume if Germany attacked Poland without the Pact, that Russia would have just stood there and done nothing? Well that rediculous. The red army would likely have poured in there and things woulda got pretty sporty for Germany. The British and French emboldened by the Soviet attack would have opened up another front and attacked Germany. from France. This is what Hitler feared, fighting on two fronts. And as I said, Hitler had no idea that Poland would fold like a house of cards. The Polish forces were quite powerful on paper and even in reality. They were poorly led and had very out moded tactics.
Now you are just mixing facts and did not answer my question. Why did Hitler seek the agreement?I'm going to leave this conversation because I am interested in history, but not in Soviet era propaganda. Your points have no basis in the historical facts, simply. Let me just leave you with this- Germany achieved complete and total tactical and STRATEGIC surprise on the 21st of June 1941. No one ever can achieve that on a 2000 kilometers long front with a couple of million of men on the other side of the border unless the opposition is completely at ease and assured of the peaceful intention. In other words, Stalin considered Hitler a trusted ally despite of all intelligence- foreign and domestic.
You wish. It was the "peace and remembering" for a few decades after the war, but it become more and more "Russia against the world who wants to get rid of us" propaganda and for the last 10 years it is just that. The unwillingness of the U.S. and Europe to deal with Russian problem (other than toothless sanctions) makes Russia become more militarised and bean a more dictatorship-style country, something like North Korea. Military parades in Russia are not about peace anymore, they are about war and showing that Russia can do what they want. Crimea, Donbas (eastern Ukraine), poisoning, Navalny arrest, declaring making Navalny's organisation to be a "terrorist organisation" for organising peaceful (actually peaceful, not U.S. style) protests - and all what was done are just toothless suctions. Yes, Biden called Putin a killer, but it was not an officially issued statement, just an answer to a question. Yet, there is no personal sanctions against Putin, no attempt to assets his assets and assets of his comrades, basically, nothing. Russians need help to get rid of the current government but it seems Western leaders are just hypocrites who are all talk but no actions.Well I know that, I don't even like the Canadian police very much. I have never been to Moscow. But for the Russian military 1.3M is nothing. The budget is about $62B USD. The VDay parade also has a role for peace. SHowing all the weapons is an important part of deterrence. It is now part of the Russian cultural identity. Toronto shut down the city to celebrate a basketball championship...
I told you, I'm exiting this conversation. You knowledge on this subject is tainted and not supported by the well established historical research.Now you are just mixing facts and did not answer my question. Why did Hitler seek the agreement?
