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Public or Private healthcare for Canada?

What system of healthcare are you in favor of?

  • Keep it as is, universal free healthcare for everyone

    Votes: 15 51.7%
  • Add private health care to create a 2-tiered system where the rich can buy better health care also

    Votes: 11 37.9%
  • Scrap universal healthcare altogether, privatize it for all except for the poor and elderly

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Completely abondon all public healtchare, even for the elderly and poor

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Total voters
    29

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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once again you change the subject I stated "polls are real trustworthy and accurate wasn't Clinton going to beat trump with a commanding lead??"

Only with you you seem to have to be the center of attention and right every time or you change the subject threaten people or accuse them of things that are untrue
I know English isn't your first language, contact, but I directly answered your claim that polls aren't accurate.
 

contact

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2012
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I know English isn't your first language, contact, but I directly answered your claim that polls aren't accurate.
good dig at my command of English again

you MO seems to be name call lie threaten and accuse those you cant win a discussion with

polls are real trustworthy and accurate wasn't Clinton going to beat trump with a commanding lead??
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,740
679
113
I figure the only way to keep the public system well funded and in good shape is for everyone, including politicians and very well off, have to use it.
Once you let people pay into a 'better' system they'll complain about paying for other people's health care.
So, it is wrong to complain that you must pay for somebody else?
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,740
679
113
Yes, but those doctors could have been working in Canada. Because of that there are doctor shortages and longer wait times. Private hospitals probably pay more as well, so there’s less incentive to work at a public hospital.

Also when there is no option but the public one there is an incentive by the rich and powerful to make it first class. When a private option is introduced I think there will be less pressure and incentive from the politicians and wealthy/influential to make it excellent
So, it is OK to underpay Canadian doctors relative to what they would have get in the U.S.? Where do you think the best doctors will go?
 
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fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
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Private insurance companies will cause a two tiered system, if they operate without messing with what we have, then I'm okay with them operating. People with money should not get preferential treatment due to what they can afford.

If they are to operate here, they should have their own hospitals and there shouldn't be any tax breaks given to anyone who can afford to go to them. Nor should these hospitals or companies get any tax breaks.
We already have the same system with private school: we pay taxes for public school system plus full cost of private school. We do not get refund for not using the public school (although by enrolling a child to private school we decrease the load on public school system). IMHO, in case of private schools, the school tax should be refunded (at least during the time the child attends private school). With health system, since it is insurance and if one decides to go back to public one he must be able too, I think it would be OK to double-charge and have everyone to finance public health care and pay out of pocket for private one.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
92,582
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good dig at my command of English again

you MO seems to be name call lie threaten and accuse those you cant win a discussion with

polls are real trustworthy and accurate wasn't Clinton going to beat trump with a commanding lead??
When your use of English makes your posts unclear, its worth noting.
Again, the results of the 2016 election were within the margins of errors of the polls.

Why are you trying to call me 'MO' and where did I call you names?
 

contact

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2012
3,629
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When your use of English makes your posts unclear, its worth noting.
Again, the results of the 2016 election were within the margins of errors of the polls.

Why are you trying to call me 'MO' and where did I call you names?
well you have called me a racist several times with ZERO proof to back it up
 
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contact

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2012
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you said I would march with racists and since you have stated only racists march with racists by your logic your saying I'm a racists
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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you said I would march with racists and since you have stated only racists march with racists by your logic your saying I'm a racists
You said before that I called you a racist and now you are claiming I only 'inferred' you were a racist because you said you'd march with racists?
Thanks for admitting that you are the one making up spurious claims.

By the way, you never answered, how many neo-Nazis is it ok to march with?
1?
10?
100?
 

contact

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2012
3,629
988
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You said before that I called you a racist and now you are claiming I only 'inferred' you were a racist because you said you'd march with racists?
Thanks for admitting that you are the one making up spurious claims.

By the way, you never answered, how many neo-Nazis is it ok to march with?
1?
10?
100?

I asked you how many Nazis in the crowd of tens of thousands make the whole crowd racists? it is YOU who have refused to answer


I have already answered I do NOT go to marches have NOT gone to marches and NEVER will go to marches or protests rallies or anything else they may be called
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I asked you how many Nazis in the crowd of tens of thousands make the whole crowd racists? it is YOU who have refused to answer


I have already answered I do NOT go to marches have NOT gone to marches and NEVER will go to marches or protests rallies or anything else they may be called
And I said I wouldn't march, either for peace or to overthrow a democratic election, with any neo-Nazis.
I have a zero tolerance on associating with neo-Nazis while it appears you don't.

I don't care about whether you march personally or not, you're just using that as a way to refuse to answer how many neo-Nazis is it ok to march with.
Because its clear that you don't think it was wrong for Trump supporters to march with neo-Nazis to try to overthrow the government and a democratic election they lost.
 

contact

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2012
3,629
988
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And I said I wouldn't march, either for peace or to overthrow a democratic election, with any neo-Nazis.
I have a zero tolerance on associating with neo-Nazis while it appears you don't.

I don't care about whether you march personally or not, you're just using that as a way to refuse to answer how many neo-Nazis is it ok to march with.
Because its clear that you don't think it was wrong for Trump supporters to march with neo-Nazis to try to overthrow the government and a democratic election they lost.



the numbers DO make a difference if your in a crowd of say 40K people and 100 proud boys show up A) you likely wouldn't know it do to size of crowd and B) mathematically irrelevant due to size of crowd

now if the numbers i threw out there were reversed then yes the crowd would be racists because its the majority

to be clear I made up those above numbers in this post as an example

they were not trying to overthrow the government they had no guns on site and no military to back them there was NO way that was going to happen. I personally think it was a spur of the moment decision of a few dozen in the crowd to enter the building once they saw the lack of police BUT the investigation may show otherwise
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
92,582
22,750
113

contact

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2012
3,629
988
113
many were in cars away and a pistol or two is not going to overthrow a government coups require the support of the military or the military weapons

the biggest charge for weapons will be concealed without permit as well as the magazine restrictions and some types may be restricted in dc (unless there was an actual threat made)

please show me a coup anywhere in the world done with a few pistols and no military or police support in modern times
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
92,582
22,750
113
many were in cars away and a pistol or two is not going to overthrow a government coups require the support of the military or the military weapons

the biggest charge for weapons will be concealed without permit as well as the magazine restrictions and some types may be restricted in dc (unless there was an actual threat made)

please show me a coup anywhere in the world done with a few pistols and no military or police support in modern times
Now you're making excuses for bringing weapons to a protest?
Why would you need guns at a protest, contact?
 

contact

Well-known member
Aug 1, 2012
3,629
988
113
Now you're making excuses for bringing weapons to a protest?
Why would you need guns at a protest, contact?

Americans have the constitutional right to protect themselves many carry a gun everywhere they go many cars will have pistol or rifle in them at all times its not unusual. some states you don't even need a permit

lots of Americans get tickets and lose their guns trying to vacation in Canada as they don't realize they cant bring them here without paperwork
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
15,964
6,108
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I am 100% in favor of universal health care., and have no complaints about it.

I believe it is a mistake to not allow private health care in Canada.

We effectively have a 2 tier system anyway, because we are so close to USA. I had surgery in USA some years ago.

Why not keep the money, doctors and nurses in Canada, instead of people going to USA for care.
The thinking, rightly or wrongly, is that basic health care should be a right and not a privilege. By creating a two tier system the fear is that first it will become more like a commodity with the rich getting better case than the middle and lower class and also that there will be a perception that better doctors will migrate to the private system. I support universal basic health care and the system in Canada for all its faults and waiting time etc works reasonably well. As you and some have pointed out if you have money you can go to the states and many people do.
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
2,740
679
113
The thinking, rightly or wrongly, is that basic health care should be a right and not a privilege. By creating a two tier system the fear is that first it will become more like a commodity with the rich getting better case than the middle and lower class and also that there will be a perception that better doctors will migrate to the private system. I support universal basic health care and the system in Canada for all its faults and waiting time etc works reasonably well. As you and some have pointed out if you have money you can go to the states and many people do.
The problem with going to states instead of having better private health care in Canada is that:
1) Best doctors will move to states for higher wages instead of getting higher wages in Canada in private hospitals and paying Canadian taxes
2) People who will go to states to pay for their healthcare will support their hospitals that employs lots of people, not only doctors and nurses. Hence, less jobs will be created in Canada
3) Some people will be tired going to states for medical treatment and will simply migrate there. As long as they will not be tax residents of Canada, they will not pay taxes in Canada (and it is a lot of money even if their income is from passive investment)

It is like: we will produce only economy-range cars and not luxury cars, because most people do not want luxury cars anyway. If people want luxury cars, they can buy them in the U.S.. The problem is that yes, people can buy them in the U.S., but it is the low-income people who would be otherwise employed in manufacturing and selling them will lose. So, obviously, it is better to produce both

The reason why some people object two private health care is simple envy that rich people can get better health care here (as if going across the border to get better care affect anything other then a simple inconvenience for people who has to do it and less spending made in Canada). It is "I do not see it, hence, it does not exist" attitude.
 
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