The election litigation thread

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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You need to hire better lawyers.
I'm gonna defend DO on this one.
These errors really do look a lot like someone doing a shitty Word to PDF conversion (or bad scans of material) or something equivalent. Some are just spelling errors, some are weird justification issues with the spacing. Yes, she should do better since she has been saying for over a week she was going to file this, but "rush job to get it in" does seem likely.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Her reasoning is quite straightforward to understand. She is contending that the vote counts reported are not reliable due to the security vulnerabilities of the voting equipment and software that was used. She is advancing circumstantial and opinion evidence in support of her claim, which is exactly the kind of evidence that could possibly be available to her at this point.

Really, it comes down to whether her evidence is credible, and whether it provides a reasonable foundation to defer certification of the election until full investigation and audit can take place. The documents and information necessary to such an audit are, necessarily, not in the possession of the plaintiffs at this time.

If the courts are persuaded by this circumstantial evidence, they have 2 remedies available to them. They could exclude all of the votes that were tallied that are subject to these problems (in some states, that might be all of the votes, in others, just some of them). If that remedy would benefit her client, I'm not surprised that she would ask for it. However, I think the more likely remedy is to order an audit and investigation of all these suspect election procedures, whether that's signature matching, vote tallying at individual voting machines, or the reporting and consolidation of individual machine tallies and a precondition to completing the process of certifying the election results and appointing electors.

Each state has another remedy available. They can declare the results of the election to be unreliable and call a special election "do-over".

Not that complicated at all.
36 cases so far and you're still hoping that they will come up with evidence soon?
Arguing that this time mail in votes and voting machines are corrupt despite their being used repeatedly before without any evidence is why they keep losing.
Misspelling just shows they have no case and just keep throwing mud to stop certification.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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I'm gonna defend DO on this one.
These errors really do look a lot like someone doing a shitty Word to PDF conversion (or bad scans of material) or something equivalent. Some are just spelling errors, some are weird justification issues with the spacing. Yes, she should do better since she has been saying for over a week she was going to file this, but "rush job to get it in" does seem likely.
36 cases in?

Shouldn't the evidence and arguments be getting stronger instead of getting worse with more clerical errors?
I don't buy it.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Her reasoning is quite straightforward to understand. She is contending that the vote counts reported are not reliable due to the security vulnerabilities of the voting equipment and software that was used.

[...]

Not that complicated at all.
I didn't say the reasoning was complicated, I said it was bad.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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36 cases in?

Shouldn't the evidence and arguments be getting stronger instead of getting worse with more clerical errors?
I don't buy it.
I don't think the clerical errors are at the evidence stage. They are in her wacky conspiracy theory argument set ups.
 

Fun For All

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2014
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I'm gonna defend DO on this one.
These errors really do look a lot like someone doing a shitty Word to PDF conversion (or bad scans of material) or something equivalent. Some are just spelling errors, some are weird justification issues with the spacing. Yes, she should do better since she has been saying for over a week she was going to file this, but "rush job to get it in" does seem likely.
Good professionals, including lawyers, don't make these kind of mistakes...
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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You must re referring to the security vulnerability created by Hugo Chavez. Speculation about vulnerability is not evidence of vulnerability or anything else.
Texas was speculating when their IT consultants advised them about the vulnerabilities of the Dominion/Smartmatic system?

Here's a simple question for you. If you were buying a used car, and your mechanic told you that in his professional opinion the engine was about to seize, would you dismiss the advice as speculation? After all, you can't REALLY be sure until it happens, right?

How about a security system for your office? If your IT consultant said that it may be possible to override your system by hacking, would you choose that system? If you did install the system, and if there was a theft from the office, could you ever be confident that it must have been someone who had authorized access, or someone improperly given access by someone who was authorized?

I'll provide the answer you won't want to give in a straightforward way. No one would trust the equipment that a reliable expert had analyzed with these vulnerabilities. If their opinion is sound (meaning uncontradicted by more persuasive expert opinion), States were wrong to use equipment and software that was not reliable as well as being incapable of being conclusively audited. Without even wondering about the motivations of bureaucrats who would subject citizens to such insecure systems, it's reasonable that a candidate and those who voted for him would have no confidence in such equipment. You can hardly claim there has been a "free and fair election" if reasonable people could lack confidence in the results.
 
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Dutch Oven

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Good professionals, including lawyers, don't make these kind of mistakes...
They do, all the time, and it never proves to be a significant factor in what the court rules.
 

Dutch Oven

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You need to hire better lawyers.
Frank, here's some free advice. If you ever retain a lawyer who tells you "I'm going to file this court filing late, because I need to correct some spelling errors", fire that lawyer.
 

Dutch Oven

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36 cases so far and you're still hoping that they will come up with evidence soon?
Arguing that this time mail in votes and voting machines are corrupt despite their being used repeatedly before without any evidence is why they keep losing.
Misspelling just shows they have no case and just keep throwing mud to stop certification.
S There are many laws applied by the court Frank, but the "law of averages" isn't one of them.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Frank, here's some free advice. If you ever retain a lawyer who tells you "I'm going to file this court filing late, because I need to correct some spelling errors", fire that lawyer.
She is filing late to correct the spelling errors.
Filing only appears on her website, not in the PACER system as far as anyone can tell. Most expect it will be filed and isn't simply a money-making grift (despite her soliciting direct donations to herself on her website)
 

Dutch Oven

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She is filing late to correct the spelling errors.
Filing only appears on her website, not in the PACER system as far as anyone can tell. Most expect it will be filed and isn't simply a money-making grift (despite her soliciting direct donations to herself on her website)
More significantly, did you read it?
 

Dutch Oven

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Yes. It's even more laughable than I expected.
I read it, and it made perfect sense to me. I didn't see any outlandish legal theories, and all of the factual contentions were supported by fact affiants or expert opinion affiants.
 

mandrill

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If lawsuits were decided based on spelling, that would be quite an astute observation. Spelling mistakes in hastily drafted emergency motions are quite commonplace.
Simply no, Dutch. You are not a lawyer. You have no idea. You are making this stuff up.

No competent lawyer allows spelling mistakes, no matter how urgent the matter. And in any event, Powell has had WEEKS to plan and bring this motion. So no excuse. She's just incompetent and lackadaisical.
 

Dutch Oven

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Simply no, Dutch. You are not a lawyer. You have no idea. You are making this stuff up.

No competent lawyer allows spelling mistakes, no matter how urgent the matter. And in any event, Powell has had WEEKS to plan and bring this motion. So no excuse. She's just incompetent and lackadaisical.
Now you've convinced me that you are not a lawyer. At least not a litigator.

This filing was not rife with spelling errors. There were 3-4 over a 104 page brief, which was an emergency motion, and undoubtedly could not be fully prepared until the supporting affidavits were prepared (not weeks ago).
 
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Fun For All

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2014
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Simply no, Dutch. You are not a lawyer. You have no idea. You are making this stuff up.

No competent lawyer allows spelling mistakes, no matter how urgent the matter. And in any event, Powell has had WEEKS to plan and bring this motion. So no excuse. She's just incompetent and lackadaisical.
Sidney Powell is a nut, wither her grammar is 100% or not, she’s still a nut.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I read it, and it made perfect sense to me. I didn't see any outlandish legal theories, and all of the factual contentions were supported by fact affiants or expert opinion affiants.
We will have to disagree then. To start, I'm pretty sure she is wrong about "preponderance of evidence" being the standard. Then there is the long, rambling conspiracy theory intro.
Many of her "facts" seem irrelevant or just false. Some seem to evidence-less assertions. She has people submitting things that are proper procedure as if it is suspicious because they don't understand it. She has people complaining about votes being switched in the audit and demands that things have to be decertified because of that even though the audit results don't get used, the original ones do unless the audit implies an error requiring a change (which it didn't).

The legal theory that gets her to the idea that the state just needs to therefore declare Trump the winner doesn't follow from what she asserts is the process being tainted but we don't know how.
The argument that "look, all we know is that the whole thing is messed up so it should be thrown out" is better, and she does lead with that for at least one complaint. Some of the counts don't have anything.
The list of 14 requests at the end seems like a sort of wild wish list at times.

Arguing that an entire state's election needs to be annulled is a big fucking deal and you need really strong arguments supporting that this is the appropriate solution. That's the part I also find weird, she nowhere backs up the idea that previous election law or decision supports this as the appropriate remedy.
 
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