Guaranteed Basic Income

lomotil

Well-known member
Mar 14, 2004
6,495
1,348
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Oblivion
UBI kills incentives for innovation and enables people to sit on their ass. Those who strive to be successful entrepreneurs will get increasingly hammered with higher taxes and other obstacles. UBI is worse than some aspects of the failed communist states where able bodied people at least have to work and aren’t allowed to stay home and do nothing while continuously feeling entitled to demand more and more for free. Free education, daycare, housing, public transit, medical,dental, pharmaceutical coupled with China supply chain dependency is a recipe with a poor prognosis.
 

bazokajoe

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2010
9,934
8,097
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Oil and gas is gone.
Wind and solar are cheaper, oil will stick around for a bit but its on its way out.

You might as well invest in coal.
Since when has wind and solar been cheaper than oil and gas?
Ontario's debt was doubled due to the liberals green plan. Wind and solar are too unreliable and require high capital investment for too little return.
 

malata

RockStar
Jan 16, 2004
3,828
172
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Paradise by the dashboard light.
this is beneficial during times of a world crisis when there are more in need to balance the scale. with the uncertainty, we may be headed to the worst economic downturn, worse than world wars and the great depression

 

desert monk

Active member
Apr 22, 2009
442
59
28
UBI kills incentives for innovation and enables people to sit on their ass. Those who strive to be successful entrepreneurs will get increasingly hammered with higher taxes and other obstacles. UBI is worse than some aspects of the failed communist states where able bodied people at least have to work and aren’t allowed to stay home and do nothing while continuously feeling entitled to demand more and more for free. Free education, daycare, housing, public transit, medical,dental, pharmaceutical coupled with China supply chain dependency is a recipe with a poor prognosis.
Who are the business owners that are most affected by the covid lockdowns? Small-medium business owners, aka the most innovative, intelligent, and by definition entrepreneurial among us. Using the Pareto principle, this small group of people are who generate the majority of wealth and productivity, and causing them to all lose their livelihoods guarantees long-term economic hardship for the whole country. It's a soviet-style attack on the intelligentsia. Taxing the high-IQ genes that create wealth, subsidizing the low-IQ genetics that consume wealth. The goal of UBI is to create people who are completely dependent on government on a mass scale. In a generation, people forget how to work, and all the smartest people have been ruined intentionally by the government. This will mirror what happened in the Holodomor famine where the kulak farmers were all murdered by the marxist revolutionaries. The Ukraine was known as "the bread basket of europe" for the amount of commercial crop production under the farming genius of the kulaks. To this day, Ukraine has some of the best arable farmland in the world, and noone there can figure out how to recreate the mass-scale crop production success that occurred before all the farmers were killed off under communism. Who is running Canada now? The same tribe of Marxist revolutionaries that are now in control of the EU, the UN, the international banking sector, and the global mass media.
 

bluecolt

Well-known member
Jun 18, 2011
1,457
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Who are the business owners that are most affected by the covid lockdowns? Small-medium business owners, aka the most innovative, intelligent, and by definition entrepreneurial among us. Using the Pareto principle, this small group of people are who generate the majority of wealth and productivity, and causing them to all lose their livelihoods guarantees long-term economic hardship for the whole country. It's a soviet-style attack on the intelligentsia. Taxing the high-IQ genes that create wealth, subsidizing the low-IQ genetics that consume wealth. The goal of UBI is to create people who are completely dependent on government on a mass scale. In a generation, people forget how to work, and all the smartest people have been ruined intentionally by the government. This will mirror what happened in the Holodomor famine where the kulak farmers were all murdered by the marxist revolutionaries. The Ukraine was known as "the bread basket of europe" for the amount of commercial crop production under the farming genius of the kulaks. To this day, Ukraine has some of the best arable farmland in the world, and noone there can figure out how to recreate the mass-scale crop production success that occurred before all the farmers were killed off under communism. Who is running Canada now? The same tribe of Marxist revolutionaries that are now in control of the EU, the UN, the international banking sector, and the global mass media.
Damn right, Monk. You hit the nail on the head. The most entrepreneurial and innovative individuals of society should be recognized and rewarded, not overly taxes and snubbed by society
in favour of those whose contributions to society are suspect. This is a relatively free society, not an ant hill or beehive where all the workers must slave and die to feed the indolent drones and queens.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
30,370
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Who are the business owners that are most affected by the covid lockdowns? Small-medium business owners, aka the most innovative, intelligent, and by definition entrepreneurial among us. Using the Pareto principle, this small group of people are who generate the majority of wealth and productivity, and causing them to all lose their livelihoods guarantees long-term economic hardship for the whole country. It's a soviet-style attack on the intelligentsia. Taxing the high-IQ genes that create wealth, subsidizing the low-IQ genetics that consume wealth. The goal of UBI is to create people who are completely dependent on government on a mass scale. In a generation, people forget how to work, and all the smartest people have been ruined intentionally by the government. This will mirror what happened in the Holodomor famine where the kulak farmers were all murdered by the marxist revolutionaries. The Ukraine was known as "the bread basket of europe" for the amount of commercial crop production under the farming genius of the kulaks. To this day, Ukraine has some of the best arable farmland in the world, and noone there can figure out how to recreate the mass-scale crop production success that occurred before all the farmers were killed off under communism. Who is running Canada now? The same tribe of Marxist revolutionaries that are now in control of the EU, the UN, the international banking sector, and the global mass media.
Except the govt is so busy helping the multinationals now to the detriment of the smaller innovators they can't compete. They get bought or suppressed.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,358
6,673
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All Canadians recieved it. Then as you earn above it tax rates come into play. All other benefits, whether disability, unemployment, general welfare, numerous boutique tax cuts and the like are eliminated.
...
I didn't think about it until now but that would mean a cost savings as numerous social services get combined.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,358
6,673
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UBI kills incentives for innovation and enables people to sit on their ass....
They've been saying that about every social support service for more than 100 years. Strange that the increase in social support happened in the same century as unprecedented innovation.
 
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JeanGary Diablo

Well-known member
Aug 5, 2017
1,560
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Oil and gas is gone.
Wind and solar are cheaper, oil will stick around for a bit but its on its way out.

You might as well invest in coal.
This is so true. Alberta has been told for decades to diversify its economy, but the the carnival showmen they've had for premiers have never bothered to heed the warning.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,127
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They've been saying that about every social support service for more than 100 years. Strange that the increase in social support happened in the same century as unprecedented innovation.
Exactly. I don't buy the doom and gloom that UBI or other social programs are going to kill businesses. People and businesses have always adapted to new standards and policies as time went on. If such policies really had a detrimental effect on businesses then there would be no minimum wage, statutory holidays, paid time off, safety standards etc. That being said, we should have a healthy debate about such programs because it's the details that will determine success or failure.

What I do not agree with is businesses like Amazon expecting government subsidize new construction or demand tax breaks. If such big businesses are supposedly so successful they should finance their own expansion and pay for their failures.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,042
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Using the bank of Canada to print our dollar into oblivion is the core economic policy of the political class. If this worked, then Venezuela and Zimbabwe would be the richest countries in the world.
In a prior life, my job territory included South America a land rich in natural resources but unfortunately not blessed with --------- people.
 

New World

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2003
1,261
542
113
toronto
Exactly. I don't buy the doom and gloom that UBI or other social programs are going to kill businesses. People and businesses have always adapted to new standards and policies as time went on. If such policies really had a detrimental effect on businesses then there would be no minimum wage, statutory holidays, paid time off, safety standards etc. That being said, we should have a healthy debate about such programs because it's the details that will determine success or failure.

What I do not agree with is businesses like Amazon expecting government subsidize new construction or demand tax breaks. If such big businesses are supposedly so successful they should finance their own expansion and pay for their failures.
I don't buy it either... I just hope my taxes don't go up im already in the 50% tax bracket... You can NOT live in Toronto (GTA) on basic income.
 
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explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,127
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I don't buy it either... I just hope my taxes don't go up im already in the 50% tax bracket... You can NOT live in Toronto (GTA) on basic income.
UBI isn't meant to help you 100% live off it or as far as I am aware. These are details that can and should be debated at length.
 

curr3n_c1000

I do all my own stunts
Dec 20, 2014
4,034
2,187
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How about we invest more in health care? The service and wait times are a joke.

And UBI is already a proven failed system. No matter what fancy name you given, it does't work on both sides of the equation.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,358
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The risk with UBI (like welfare) is that it becomes inter-generational.
I'd argue UBI is better than welfare for one simple reason; you are prohibited from working while on welfare. Under UBI, you can get a part time job to pay for a few luxuries. This means they are not only building a resume but also getting used to affording those luxuries which can easily lead to a better job. The 'worst' case is the person starts earning enough that they become taxpayers.

Obviously this won't apply to everyone but unlike welfare, it does give the option.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,358
6,673
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...

And UBI is already a proven failed system. ...
On the slight chance that you are talking out of your ass, here is a summary of places where UBI systems have been tried.


General results, no reduction in employment, improved health, and improved education. There were also a couple cases that documented reduced crime. Care to tell us why these were failures?
 

jelly baby

Active member
Aug 11, 2019
256
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The country is only as good as its middle class. Without manufacturing, oil and gas, mining, steel, forestry, coal (all the Canadian industries that free trade agreements and environmental regulation killed) we are sunk. The service economy doesn’t pay good wages except for the top 5-10% of jobs. We can’t rely on importing Chinese “investors”, the entire 3rd world, and cheap foreign labor to prop up demand for housing, university, and lenders. All I see is the government sector expanding endlessly, and private sector dwindling down to nothing. Using the bank of Canada to print our dollar into oblivion is the core economic policy of the political class. If this worked, then Venezuela and Zimbabwe would be the richest countries in the world. All that this free money and CERB/UBI is going to ultimately do is just raise the price of everything to the point where the value of our life savings is reduced to nothing.
(all the Canadian industries that BRIAN MULRONEY / CONSERVATIVES free trade agreements and environmental regulation killed)

fixed your post.
 

jelly baby

Active member
Aug 11, 2019
256
94
43
Under UBI, you can get a part time job to pay for a few luxuries. This means they are not only building a resume
A resume of pouring coffee's and flipping burgers, yes, young people today need this on their resumes - jobs of the future.

Meanwhile I pour my coffee at home, FOR FREE, vintage tap water and microwaved to perfection.

Most delish.

P.S. Bombardier went bankrupt in Thunder Bay, enjoy your cough-FEE's ( when you can pour a cup for free ). Fools.
 

curr3n_c1000

I do all my own stunts
Dec 20, 2014
4,034
2,187
113
On the slight chance that you are talking out of your ass, here is a summary of places where UBI systems have been tried.


General results, no reduction in employment, improved health, and improved education. There were also a couple cases that documented reduced crime. Care to tell us why these were failures?
I come across hippies like you online all the time. Don't really know what you're saying, just parroting biased articles.

Out of several pilots run around the world, the only positives you can point to are vague results in employment, health and education?
 
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