In the internet age, you can always post Trump's entire quote in context. However, it's far more entertaining to post your own interpretation of a media interpretation of what the man actually said.
Getting hydroxychloroquine
- Thread starter Spacealien2
- Start date
Could be because he talks so much bullshit that all the times he contradicts himself are easy to find.
And the best medical minds told us that the Chinese Virus was no big deal. And then, they gave us models projecting 2million deaths in America alone, then 200k, right after that, less than 60k. In Canada, we locked up our country, but forgot the seniors in their residences. ROFLMAO.
The timing is important, when the "best medical minds" said things that were wrong is much earlier vs. Trump was saying similar things in March.
Yes some key medical organizations got things wrong but they have also gotten things correct. One essential point that scientist and physicians have which gets lost in translation to the public, media and politicians is that no evidence for something is different than evidence against something. I think early on conclusions were being made on the former and not the latter but people took those conclusions to be from the latter.
We need to rely on our best available tool against this virus which is science. Shouting things over the TV, name calling, pointing fingers, false hopes and conspiracy theories do nothing against an entity that functions purely based on biology. Death threats against physician leaders and scientist also does not help. They are not perfect but its the best thing we got against this enemy, they atleast speak the language and understand how it works.
This virus and science dont have a political side and we should stop treating it as such. This is not a political issue and both sides making it such only results in more harm to the public. We are seeing that with hydrocholoroquine.
There is of course a role for politicians and thats when it comes to the economy. Each country has to make a decision on how their economy is impacted and also what the value of that is in contrast to the expected loss of life. opinions will differ there. I am in the camp that the when breaking down society and the economy to their core fundamentals, the goal is to allow the society to flourish. If we abandon those principles and make it a every man for themselves and roll the dice on who lives and sacrifice our vulnerable then might as well just have everyone live for themselves. Advanced societies place alot of value on human life and this would be a litmus test for our society if we are at a point were we can protect our vulnerable then in my mind we are advanced. Not doing so would be going backwards in the grand sheme of things.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/malaria-drug-virginia-coronavirus-study-198590
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
With 368 patients, the study is the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for Covid-19.
Hydroxychloroquine
A pharmacist shows a bottle of the drug hydroxychloroquine April 6 in Oakland, Calif. | Ben Margot/AP Photo
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
04/21/2020 01:23 PM EDT
Facebook
A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.
The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.
The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine, but has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.
Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.
Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
Researchers did not track side effects, but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.
Earlier this month, scientists in Brazil stopped part of a hydroxychloroquine study after heart rhythm problems developed in one-quarter of people given the higher of two doses being tested.
Many doctors have been leery of the drug.
At the University of Wisconsin, Madison, “I think we’re all rather underwhelmed” at what’s been seen among the few patients there who’ve tried it, said Dr. Nasia Safdar, medical director of infection control and prevention.
Patients asked about it soon after Trump started promoting its use, “but now I think that people have realized we don’t know if it works or not” and needs more study, said Safdar, who had no role in the VA analysis.
The NIH and others have more rigorous tests underway.
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
With 368 patients, the study is the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for Covid-19.
Hydroxychloroquine
A pharmacist shows a bottle of the drug hydroxychloroquine April 6 in Oakland, Calif. | Ben Margot/AP Photo
By ASSOCIATED PRESS
04/21/2020 01:23 PM EDT
A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.
The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.
The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine, but has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.
Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.
About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.
Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.
Researchers did not track side effects, but noted hints that hydroxychloroquine might have damaged other organs. The drug has long been known to have potentially serious side effects, including altering the heartbeat in a way that could lead to sudden death.
Earlier this month, scientists in Brazil stopped part of a hydroxychloroquine study after heart rhythm problems developed in one-quarter of people given the higher of two doses being tested.
Many doctors have been leery of the drug.
At the University of Wisconsin, Madison, “I think we’re all rather underwhelmed” at what’s been seen among the few patients there who’ve tried it, said Dr. Nasia Safdar, medical director of infection control and prevention.
Patients asked about it soon after Trump started promoting its use, “but now I think that people have realized we don’t know if it works or not” and needs more study, said Safdar, who had no role in the VA analysis.
The NIH and others have more rigorous tests underway.
I'll take one for bigsleazy. This is a possible side effect of hydroxychloroquine, the liver damage can cause darkening of the skin.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/study...p-promoted-coronavirus-drug-finds-more-deaths
The anti-malaria drug flogged over and over again by President Donald Trump as a coronavirus treatment didn’t help veterans who got it, according to a new government-funded study.
The research, which has not yet been peer-reviewed but was backed by the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia, is the latest evidence that hydroxychloroquine is not the magic bullet that Trump and his allies suggested it was.
“In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19,” the authors wrote.
In fact, the analysis of data from 368 patients at veterans hospitals found 28 percent of those who got it died—compared to 11 percent who received the standard treatment without the drug. And 22 percent of the patients who got hydroxychloroquine plus the antibiotic azithromycin died.
Doctors Are Hoarding Trump-Hyped Drug—for Themselves
BAD SIDE EFFECT
Zachary Siegel
“Specifically, hydroxychloroquine use with or without co-administration of azithromycin did not improve mortality or reduce the need for mechanical ventilation in hospitalized patients,” they wrote. “On the contrary, hydroxychloroquine use alone was associated with an increased risk of mortality compared to standard care alone.”
The authors said it was not clear why the group that got the drug had a higher death rate, but they noted that a Brazil study on hydroxychloroquine was halted because some of the patients developed heart problems.
The team acknowledged that patients who got hydroxychlroquine were likely to be among the most critically ill, but even accounting for that, the death rate was outsize.
Two other small studies, one in France and one in China, also found hydroxychloroquine was no better than standard therapies. The authors of the VA analysis said their limited study shows how data from clinical trials is desperately needed before hydroxychloroquine could be considered a useful weapon in the fight against COVID-19.
ADVERTISING
In fact, they suggested medical providers exercise caution before trying it.
Although Trump talked up hydroxychloroquine so often in his briefings that they began to resemble infomercials, in the last week or so he has abandoned his hype, and conservative media is no longer beating the hydroxychloroquine drum, Politico reported this week.
But at the height of Trump’s hydroxychloroquine fever, the federal government bought millions of doses. One side effect of that rush to judgment: Americans who use the drug to treat illnesses like lupus face shortages.
The anti-malaria drug flogged over and over again by President Donald Trump as a coronavirus treatment didn’t help veterans who got it, according to a new government-funded study.
The research, which has not yet been peer-reviewed but was backed by the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia, is the latest evidence that hydroxychloroquine is not the magic bullet that Trump and his allies suggested it was.
“In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19,” the authors wrote.
In fact, the analysis of data from 368 patients at veterans hospitals found 28 percent of those who got it died—compared to 11 percent who received the standard treatment without the drug. And 22 percent of the patients who got hydroxychloroquine plus the antibiotic azithromycin died.
Doctors Are Hoarding Trump-Hyped Drug—for Themselves
BAD SIDE EFFECT
Zachary Siegel
“Specifically, hydroxychloroquine use with or without co-administration of azithromycin did not improve mortality or reduce the need for mechanical ventilation in hospitalized patients,” they wrote. “On the contrary, hydroxychloroquine use alone was associated with an increased risk of mortality compared to standard care alone.”
The authors said it was not clear why the group that got the drug had a higher death rate, but they noted that a Brazil study on hydroxychloroquine was halted because some of the patients developed heart problems.
The team acknowledged that patients who got hydroxychlroquine were likely to be among the most critically ill, but even accounting for that, the death rate was outsize.
Two other small studies, one in France and one in China, also found hydroxychloroquine was no better than standard therapies. The authors of the VA analysis said their limited study shows how data from clinical trials is desperately needed before hydroxychloroquine could be considered a useful weapon in the fight against COVID-19.
ADVERTISING
In fact, they suggested medical providers exercise caution before trying it.
Although Trump talked up hydroxychloroquine so often in his briefings that they began to resemble infomercials, in the last week or so he has abandoned his hype, and conservative media is no longer beating the hydroxychloroquine drum, Politico reported this week.
But at the height of Trump’s hydroxychloroquine fever, the federal government bought millions of doses. One side effect of that rush to judgment: Americans who use the drug to treat illnesses like lupus face shortages.
Damn that fake news media!
Well folks, don't read what the latest scientific studies say then folks. It's all just about being mean to the guy with the most amazing TV ratings in history!
You can read something more important and more balanced - like about Nancy Pelosi's gourmet ice cream.
Just like Trump's pushing it was a biased attempt by his buddies to profit in the market?
Sorry but you have issues if you think these scientists are testing the effectiveness of the drug simply to make trump look bad.
All the hyroxychlooquine study that just being released ( in VA hospital) don't included the zinc in them!
Plus the video point out the study
You need three things for the drug to be effective:
1) hydroxychlooquine
2) Antibiotic ( azithromycin)
3) Zinc >> Zinc Emerging as a Key in Hydroxychloroquine-Based Treatments
Interpretation
( Getting zinc into the cell is very important mechanism , therefore it play a important role that zinc help stopping the virus from replicating).
Go to video time 14:12 to 16:12 and also
Go to video time 42:30 to 42:53
He not a fan of this study don't include Zinc or study why their reason don't use zinc!
BottomLine: Study after study exploring Hydroxychloroquine aren't including zinc ,
measuring for serum levels, or in any way tracing or even discussing it. Very weird! As pointed out in the above video !
FYI: What Hydroxychloroquine does is open the pathway to allow more zinc into your cells. The zinc is what shuts down the cells’ ability to reproduce RNA which essentially kill the virus ( since it relies on human cells to replicate its RNA).
Hydrooxychloroquine only work IF there is sufficient zinc in the blood to be pushed into the cells. Therefore a zinc supplements should be taken along with Hydroxychloroquine . The addition of Azithromycin in this regime is encouraging, but don’t forget the zinc!
PS. Posting by Ogare on hydroxychlooquine is flaw studies???
PPS. Beginning suspect the same bullshit being pushed by mainstream media like the public should not wear a mask! Then later mask is now adopt!
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; said:
All the hyroxychlooquine study that just being released ( in VA hospital) don't included the zinc in them!
Plus the video point out the study
You need three things for the drug to be effective:
1) hydroxychlooquine
2) Antibiotic ( azithromycin)
3) Zinc >> Zinc Emerging as a Key in Hydroxychloroquine-Based Treatments
Interpretation
( Getting zinc into the cell is very important mechanism , therefore it play a important role that zinc help stopping the virus from replicating).
Go to video time 14:12 to 16:12 and also
Go to video time 42:30 to 42:53
He not a fan of this study don't include Zinc or studies indicate why their reason don't include the use of zinc!
BottomLine: Study after study exploring Hydroxychloroquine aren't including zinc , measuring
for serum levels, or in any way tracing or even discussing it. Very weird! As pointed in the above video !
FYI: What Hydroxychloroquine does is open the pathway to allow more zinc into your cells. The zinc is what shuts down the cells’ ability to reproduce RNA which essentially kill the virus ( since it relies on human cells to replicate its RNA).
Hydrooxychloroquine only work IF there is sufficient zinc in the blood to be pushed into the cells. Therefore a zinc supplements should be taken along with Hydroxychloroquine . The addition of Azithromycin in this regime is encouraging, but don’t forget the zinc!
See post # 135 also
Speaking especially to you Ben19 because you are more knowledge then most terbite when the topic is medical related topic! Asking you are this... Are you a TDS ? Because of Trump touting Hydroxychloroquine you are against it or go on basically on facts? Right now all the studying released are not peer reviewed! But the most promising is still Hydroxychloroquine treatment with Zinc and Azithromycin as indicated in my previous post! Until a peer reviewed paper say it is bad then those paper without mentioning Zinc combo treatment is flaw!
PS Oagre and basketcase are definitely TDS( anti trump) will never convince them about the treatment of hyroxychloroquine.
PPS When a peer reviewed study that published showing hyroxychloroquine with Azithromycin and Zinc combo treatment don't work than I go with the facts. This show me that those previous research on hyroxychloroquine without Zinc usage are flaws! No Zinc means paper worth shit!
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Go to video time: 1:35
>> Zinc Emerging as a Key in Hydroxychloroquine-Based Treatments
Interpretation
Also post#100 have Zinc combo treatment in research paper!
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?709548-Getting-hydroxychloroquine/page5
Video noted drug treatment is promising but need a double blinded random controlled studies and need to be peer reviewed!
This video laid out the pro & cons!
Bottomline researched show it Hyroxychloroquine treatment ( with Zinc & Azithromycin) work so far it is antidotally , but need to be peer reviewed & a double blinded study as explains in the video!
So any research paper that don't include Zinc Combo with Hyroxychloroquine & Azithromycin is not worth the paper written on!
Everything is political as soon as Trump's name appears. He is at the center of the political divide and he enjoys that position. His opponents only amplify it. I agree that it shouldn't be politicised, but it is what it is.
Trump did not push anything.
There’s plenty of data and studies and real world cases where the drug combo worked. The media only gleefully reports negative things.
If Trump had originally said that the drug needs more studies (which he did) and that he was going to order the FDA to restrict access to it, the media would be accusing him of denying dying patients potentially life saving treatment.
You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.
God would surely not push anything that doesn't work. Halleluja, his name be praised.
PS: Please tell Phil and the porn guy who are bombarding us with posts.
All I am pointing out follow the data! Those studies say it don't work are flaw because they don't include Zinc combo treatment.
Eventually all research paper must be randomly large sample & double blinded and peer review in order to be accepted ! This is the gold standard for medical research paper.
The jury is still out on hyroxychlooquine treatements that contains Zinc treatment & Azithromycin treatement, so far it is a promising treatment & providing it prescribed early it shows the best outcome of the coved-19 disease ! ( That paper still need to be peer reviewed).
Those paper containing hydroxychlooquine + Azithromycin without the zinc treatment are flaws! It still need to be peer reviewed!
PS. If the peer reviewed paper hydroxychlooquine & Azithromycin with Zinc combo treatment says it only it garbages then that what the data indicate then it time to move on! Always follow the data regardless of the politics!
PPS. Just pointing out the facts on both paper, don't know understand why the people are so happy that the flaw hydroxychlooquine treatment paper by VA hospital don't work ( maybe reason they forgot to include Zinc combo treatment) ! This is so sad. Guess the TDS blind people to the what ever treatment that Trump tooted they ( anti-trumo) will take the opposite position!
