Do you get jealous of her yearly earnings? Most escorts make more then thier clients?

[Theredmilf]

Just reverse engineer it...

Thanks for posting this. So yes, in order to hit double that, she’s either working 2x as many days, earns a higher hourly fee which is hard to achieve and also sustain or has figured out a business-model to reduce expenses dramatically such as a pooled incall or maybe has so many regulars advertising costs are lower.

In truth though, advertising is much higher!! Sites like LL rip us off and you can’t rely on just one. To be successful you need 2-6 pro photoshoots a year. These cost around 1k for a good photographer and up to 3k! Then the outfits, makeup and hair can add another 1-2k!! Then there’s the space to shoot. I don’t even want to say how much that can run.

Another expense is cosmetic enhancements. Have you stopped to consider the cost of boob jobs? Nose jobs? Butt implants? Injections? Lipo? Not to mention hair extensions, nails, pedicures, lashes, skincare, tanning, lasers, waxing, suppliments.... No one does all of these but every does some on a regular basis.

Oh and we’re forgetting professional services like lawyers, accountants and even admin assistants.

Then there’s equipment: furnishing an incall, toys, computer, phones (multiple!)...

I would dearly love for just one dude to come and try this for a week and see if he lasts that long. It’s a fun and very rewarding business if it’s your passion, otherwise I would lay bets 99% would run screaming back to their jobs.

 

[fall]

I was just thinking about that. So for about 8 hours of appointments we are looking at about 30 hours work for marketing / customer service / upkeep / etc. That pans out to worse than most industrial ratios of 1:2.5, product to overheads. 1:3.75 is easily sustainable in the long run. It is also definitely reducible. And if you are not working full time it will go even higher (driving the earnings lower).

Please, note that in my calculations I assumed $110/hour of work for an agency girl. So, no marketing etc. is involved. Indis get the full $250/h with half of it covering the payment for "marketing" job (at a lower hourly rate, of cause). Based on how tight decent Mirage girls were booked in Ottawa, I am pretty sure they have more than 4 clients per day. In fact, I doubt any agency girl has less than 4 clients per day in a standard 8-hours shift. (and this is why I defined 4 hour "client" time as full 8-hour work day). Independents get full fee but have expenses. However, if they cannot (or do not want to) have 4 clients a day (5 days a week, 10 months a year), they are not doing their job correctly as they would be able to earn more money working for an agency, There may be more perks of being independent (screen clients or work for Uber in between), but given the $100K/year earning for good agency girls, if a girl decides to go indi and does not make that much, it means that she trades her "comfort" for the reduction in income or simply is bad at business and should go back to fork for an agency (from economics perspective)

 

[Uber Driver]

And a hot restaurant in town with a glowing review means they are set for $100k earnings for the year. I love this logic.

Maybe, maybe not? How do you know? Maybe u just aren't working hard enough like the other girls? Lol

Keep in mind that this is all based on assumptions and I'm accounting for the leolist escorts, not MAs. Thousands of eyes are upon her everyday from many different men each day she puts a add up + a consistent positive review with recurring positive reviews can lead to better income.

Tell me ur name from the Bassclub... I'll pay u a visit :encouragement:

 

[Theredmilf]

Which comes up to 9-10 sex in a week. With preparation, it is at most 3 hours a day. Definitely not a full-time job, so, getting $50K a year sounds just right. Noone is expected to be able to live comfortably working part-time job.

You are not listening whatsoever. To roll 9-10 billable hours you need to be a put in 23-25 hours minimum. And that will net you the equivalent of 40-47k plus benefits. And that’s someone who has invested a lot already to become successful and has worked for it. Are you going to tell me you’d be willing to sacrifice all that I do for less than that?

 

[kherg007]

Thanks for posting this. So yes, in order to hit double that, she’s either working 2x as many days, earns a higher hourly fee which is hard to achieve and also sustain or has figured out a business-model to reduce expenses dramatically such as a pooled incall or maybe has so many regulars advertising costs are lower.

In truth though, advertising is much higher!! Sites like LL rip us off and you can’t rely on just one. To be successful you need 2-6 pro photoshoots a year. These cost around 1k for a good photographer and up to 3k! Then the outfits, makeup and hair can add another 1-2k!! Then there’s the space to shoot. I don’t even want to say how much that can run.

Another expense is cosmetic enhancements. Have you stopped to consider the cost of boob jobs? Nose jobs? Butt implants? Injections? Lipo? Not to mention hair extensions, nails, pedicures, lashes, skincare, tanning, lasers, waxing, suppliments.... No one does all of these but every does some on a regular basis.

Oh and we’re forgetting professional services like lawyers, accountants and even admin assistants.

Then there’s equipment: furnishing an incall, toys, computer, phones (multiple!)...

I would dearly love for just one dude to come and try this for a week and see if he lasts that long. It’s a fun and very rewarding business if it’s your passion, otherwise I would lay bets 99% would run screaming back to their jobs.

I've always been fascinated by the pure business end of this industry. And thus converting this to a pure business exercise opens the eyes. And yep, the formula is clear and the invisible costs of business I think gets dudes wildly overestimating the gig. And one has to manage their talent too. You can't throw your best pitcher every night and not expect him to burn out, and let's face it, this gig is not just a desk job lol. Not to mention the aggravation of unserious texters, no shows, stealthers, and other occupational hazards, etc. I'm impressed how much courage it takes for a lady to do this job. And impressed to have met a large number of interesting, smart, lovely ladies in this biz.

 

[fall]

Just reverse engineer it. She's a businesswoman. So humble Jane Smith from Grimsby is CEO of the vivacious Fiona Goodlay of Toronto, LLC. For Fiona to clear $100k per annum....

First, assume 2 months of down time holiday. Then assume 3 weeks per month for remaining 10 months. Assume 5 days per working week, or 15 working days per month. Thus 10 months x 15 days = 150 working days a year. Thus a lady must NET $666.67 per working day to earn $100k (100,000 / 150 = 666.67).

But alas, she has expenses. If an Indy assume $200 per day hotel, thus now she needs 867 a day. And she needs to advertise, say prorated to $20 a day now 887. And she needs additional materials, such as condoms, lube, makeup, body wash, gym memberships, etc., plus if she is working out of a hotel she likely will be eating more expensive food vs cooking at home. Thus easy to assume she has to bring in $1,000 a day to net $667 a day. And we haven't even considered taxes.

Thus 4 clients a day @ 250 yield per client = $1,000. 3 to 4 a day @ 300 per would do it too.

If she's working at an agency, earning 60% of the booking (thus 150 of the 250 fee per hour) and assuming much less overhead...just additional gym, makeup, etc, means she likely needs to bring in 700 per shift. This means she needs to see 4.67 x one hour bookings per shift (Again, assuming 15 working days a month at 10 months a year, as above). Half hour @ 150 booking fee means she yields 90 per half hour booking. Anyhow, you can do the math on what combination of half hour ($90) or full hour ($150) bookings she might need to cobble together for her to bring in $700 per shift.

Maths is the language of the universe. Unlocks many mysteries.

Yes, exactly my point. With this just a bit below full-time (you generously assume 2 moths vacation AND only 15 days per month work while I only assumed 2 month vacation and standard 20 day work per month) 4 clients a day will net $100K at an agency. Good and fair pay for hard work. In indis cannot make that much (after all their expenses), it means that they CHOSE to make less because they always have an option to work for an agency. If the agency girl cannot get 4 clients in an 8-hour shift, it means she is not good enough in her job. If she choses to work less than 5 days a week, it means she is getting a non-paid vacation time. Standard business.

And to all girls in here: I am all for escorts getting fair pay and I think $100K/year net id fair for a full time job. If you chose to work less - you get paid less. If you cannot get enough clients as indis or have too much business expenses - you are not good a very good busnesswomen, you may get more money as an "employee" (i.e., work for an agency)

 

[Theredmilf]

I've always been fascinated by the pure business end of this industry. And thus converting this to a pure business exercise opens the eyes. And yep, the formula is clear and the invisible costs of business I think gets dudes wildly overestimating the gig. And one has to manage their talent too. You can't throw your best pitcher every night and not expect him to burn out, and let's face it, this gig is not just a desk job lol. Not to mention the aggravation of unserious texters, no shows, stealthers, and other occupational hazards, etc. I'm impressed how much courage it takes for a lady to do this job. And impressed to have met a large number of interesting, smart, lovely ladies in this biz.

I dearly appreciate these comments. We do spend a lot of time bashing out how to do this better. Sometimes you have to give a little, like donating time to a fundraiser or giving a special guy bonus time. And there are lots of days you just can’t work or there is none. I’m lucky I don’t have to deal with a menstrual cycle, Valentines Day is a lonely club for sure, back to school is just a financially strapped time for dads understandably. No one can go like an energizer bunny 3-5 a day 5 days a week even with that business on offer. If I did that I would develop a reputation for being very transactional instead of passionate and caring.

I think to last as a passionate SW long-term you need to do it on your terms. Have the greatest possibility of real experiences of human love and kindness. I choose to be independent for this reason. I choose quality over transactional encounters for this reason too. It’s what keeps me engaged and excited to return. So there are tremendous sacrifices but if you can really develop yourself and see amazing people, the rewards are also quite tremendous.

Idk what to else to say. I guess some get us and some just fuck us but will never understand. I want to spend my time with the former.

 

[Alison_xox]

NOT AGAIN !!!
Jesus !!!
I started a thread a couple of weeks ago about THE EXACT SAME TOPIC !!
I’ve took the time to explain IN EVERY DETAILS , the cost of operation of an indy provider.
What did you not understand ?
Guys ... I am discouraged now ...

Speechless...

 

[kherg007]

I dearly appreciate these comments. We do spend a lot of time bashing out how to do this better. Sometimes you have to give a little, like donating time to a fundraiser or giving a special guy bonus time. And there are lots of days you just can’t work or there is none. I’m lucky I don’t have to deal with a menstrual cycle, Valentines Day is a lonely club for sure, back to school is just a financially strapped time for dads understandably. No one can go like an energizer bunny 3-5 a day 5 days a week even with that business on offer. If I did that I would develop a reputation for being very transactional instead of passionate and caring.

I think to last as a passionate SW long-term you need to do it on your terms. Have the greatest possibility of real experiences of human love and kindness. I choose to be independent for this reason. I choose quality over transactional encounters for this reason too. It’s what keeps me engaged and excited to return. So there are tremendous sacrifices but if you can really develop yourself and see amazing people, the rewards are also quite tremendous.

Idk what to else to say. I guess some get us and some just fuck us but will never understand. I want to spend my time with the former.

The outside gets me inside, the inside keeps me coming back lol.

All my faves pass "the timmies test". That means... would I drive 30 mins just to have coffee w this woman even though no chance of sex? If yes, she passes the timmies test. These women are gold.

There are places I travel that have legal, govt health inspected brothels...but if the ladies can't speak English well...or just perfunctory...ehhh...I'll pass thanks. Doesn't matter how they look.

 

[Theredmilf]

NOT AGAIN !!!
Jesus !!!
I started a thread a couple of weeks ago about THE EXACT SAME TOPIC !!
I’ve took the time to explain IN EVERY DETAILS , the cost of operation of an indy provider.
What did you not understand ?
Guys ... I am discouraged now ...

Speechless...

But Alison, you don’t know your own business as well as random dude X. Either that or you’re not working hard enough because that dude could make sooooo much more than you if he only was born with lady bits. Try not to feel condescended to, years of experience, intelligence and knowledge from other SWs is nothing compared to his dude-brain knowledge. Haven’t you heard, we’re just not doing this right! I for one am extremely grateful to have been told on one hand I am grossly overpaid and on the other am too stupid to figure out how to make more money. Glad that’s all cleared up! Thanks guys, you really helped to improve things with this thread.

 

[Theredmilf]

The outside gets me inside, the inside keeps me coming back lol.

All my faves pass "the timmies test". That means... would I drive 30 mins just to have coffee w this woman even though no chance of sex? If yes, she passes the timmies test. These women are gold.

There are places I travel that have legal, govt health inspected brothels...but if the ladies can't speak English well...or just perfunctory...ehhh...I'll pass thanks. Doesn't matter how they look.

That’s beyond adorable. I think I’ll use it as a litmus test for everything from now on. Btw you’re not “dude x” if that wasn’t already apparent. This is not a battle of the sexes but a battle of the wits and I take as a friend anyone with them.

 

[Uber Driver]

NOT AGAIN !!!
Jesus !!!
I started a thread a couple of weeks ago about THE EXACT SAME TOPIC !!
I’ve took the time to explain IN EVERY DETAILS , the cost of operation of an indy provider.
What did you not understand ?
Guys ... I am discouraged now ...

Speechless...

Huh where? When? Must of missed that one.

 

[Hihoonthelilo]

Which comes up to 9-10 sex in a week. With preparation, it is at most 3 hours a day. Definitely not a full-time job, so, getting $50K a year sounds just right. Noone is expected to be able to live comfortably working part-time job.

I would say even less. It should come to about 8 - 9 hours of time spent with a client (the product). Now the industrial ratio of product development to overhead comes into picture. For most established industries, with well established systems of management this come out to be about 1:2.5, product development to overheads. I believe for theredmilf, this is exactly where she is (fantastic for her).

If we consider 8 hours of time spent with the client translates to a full time job (37.5 hours), we will have to assume a pdv ratio of 1:3.75. That is not a good ratio for a well developed industry, but regularly seen in early startups. Startups that cannot improve this ratio fast tend to tank because burn rate goes through the roof. This is also what smaller VCs (with a lower apettite for risk) will see before investing.

I think it is reasonable to say that most independent SWs will find it difficult to run their business at 1:2.5. But they should be able to achieve better than 1:3.75 mark. If not, that should result in attrition, which is what is seen, I believe.

Now, this is only on the independent side. On the employed side, there is an analysis provided by kherg007. I haven't run his numbers personally to check for accuracy / assumptions, but one can do that for oneself.

 

[OttawaDude6969]

NOT AGAIN !!!
Jesus !!!
I started a thread a couple of weeks ago about THE EXACT SAME TOPIC !!
I’ve took the time to explain IN EVERY DETAILS , the cost of operation of an indy provider.
What did you not understand ?
Guys ... I am discouraged now ...

Speechless...

Yup you did. Read my posts #18 and #23 https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?693342-Cost-of-operation-for-an-Indy-Ma-or-Hybrid

I truly appreciate all the ladies in this business. You are taking a lot of risks especially for indy providers. The risks you take imho are well-compensated for.

Look from this angle: for most Johns, your rate is a one or even 2 days of work for us. We also have expenses just like everyone. When we see you, the rate you charge is our net saving (after our normal expenses) of our next pay. An hourly wage of $50 will translate to net hourly pay of $35.

Lastly, if any full time provider is not getting at least 2 clients a day then she should either raise her rate to very high or just get a normal job like the rest of us.

 

[Hihoonthelilo]

NOT AGAIN !!!
Jesus !!!
I started a thread a couple of weeks ago about THE EXACT SAME TOPIC !!
I’ve took the time to explain IN EVERY DETAILS , the cost of operation of an indy provider.
What did you not understand ?
Guys ... I am discouraged now ...

Speechless...

Kudos for full transparency on this one. And to all the other SWs here as well.

 

[OttawaDude6969]

StillROAming: read my post carefully again. It is not acceptable for ANYONE to do what you have mentioned.

Police officers, firemen, social workers, trade persons etc. or any working persons hopefully know the risks associated with their chosen profession.

 

[OttawaDude6969]

Kudos for full transparency on this one. And to all the other SWs here as well.

Read my post#18 and #23. People don't tell you the whole story.
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?693342-Cost-of-operation-for-an-Indy-Ma-or-Hybrid

 

[Hihoonthelilo]

Read my post#18 and #23. People don't tell you the whole story.
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?693342-Cost-of-operation-for-an-Indy-Ma-or-Hybrid

In #18, you are actually telling her how to do her business. For anyone with any amount of experience in any industry, it is obvious that looking in from the outside, is not enough to make recommendations. There might be downsides to having a shared location that are not apparent. For example that is too close to an agency rather than an independent for my perception.

Even management consultants going into new industries know not to make recos before a deep learning period.

I feel that all in all, there are SWs that do well (~100k/year +-50k), and then there are SWs that do not do so well (<50k/year). How is that any different than most small businesses and startups?

The incomes in the industry seem to be average compared to most other professions, depending on the experience and professionalism of the work force.

By average, I do not mean to demean anyone. Average in this case is good. At least no one can claim that SWs are not overpaid.

 

[fortran13]

When comparing to other services one buys, SW service is reasonable or even cheap. Per hour cost of a psychiatrist is $120-150, mechanic is $120, plumber visit is $150-200, and Porsche car rental is $200+.

 

[Alison_xox]

If I didn't know you at all, I would think you don't like to be escort and try to convince all other ladies to not be one. But I know this isn't the case.



150 working days per year? That seems a little low no? 41% work, 59% off. I would expect a minimum of 50% at least, or maybe 55% no? Let's take 52% (190 days)

Condoms and lube yes because an average lady doesn't need to buy those like escorts do.

Gym membership and makeup no because many ladies have to, or decide to, or wish to, buy those regardless of being an escort. This would be like me saying I need to buy cloths to work, have my hair cut, spend gas on transportation, etc. The normal everything things that everyone needs to do should be out of the equation imo.

Imagine an indy working out of her place. No hotel, no agency cut, no spa cut.



Personally, I think you're going way too far. I definitely disagree with: "To be successful you need 2-6 pro photoshoots a year."

I don't get why a SW would pay for a professional photographer, to me that's pure waste of money.

Computers and phones, everyone has those, that shouldn't be accounted for.

Professional services?!?

Maybe that's why some escorts charge $400hr... To live the fancy life and pass on the cost to the clients.

I think what the typical "good/normal" client wants is primarily:
- accurate pictures (no need for professional, I personally DISLIKE them she's they are usually "doctor'ed")
- attractive Lady (some guys actually don't care tho)
- reasonable rates
- friendly attitude
- compatible services
- respect (both ways of course)



Yes again, and there's a reason for this topic to come again and again on here over the last few months. I think this might be the 5th rate-related thread since.

I still haven't had the time to cover your post Ali, but I know there was room for recommendations

For example, you could avoid paying two internet bills by having a good phone plan and hotspoting your laptop. Sharing your incall I think was mentioned.

imo laptop and phone should not be calculated in your expense, everyone needs those regardless.

And some of the expenses you listed are normal everything things that everyone needs to do, imo they should be out of the equation. This would be like me saying I need to buy cloths to work, have my hair cut, spend gas on transportation, etc.

EDIT: just saw this:



=======================

Also, this is a discussion board to discuss. If anyone doesn't want to be part of the discussion, then don't

I'll say this again, if a SW cannot AVERAGE 3 clients on working days, then there's something that's not being done right imo, which could be out of her control (not really attractive for example), or within her control (charging $400hr instead of $220hr for example).

First : I never said I was paying two internet bills !?
No idea where you are taking your information.
Next : I find it extremely rude to discuss a provider salary. Specially that we work very hard for our money.
3rd: I posted the cost of operations in order to make people understand that we are not pocketing all of the money you pay.
4th : I am definitely not looking for suggestions to improve my business since I am surviving in this industry for many years and still manage to have great reputation so far.
5th : If some guys wish to see providers that are making less or charge less , this is a free country and it’s plenty of girls that charge less. Nobody needs to book a provider outside of his budget neither are we asking anybody to do so.

Most importantly: I never asked for a brake down or explanation of income to ANYBODY that I hired before because it would be very rude and it’s simply not of my busyness. I can’t imagine asking that to my doctor , dentist , waitress or anybody.
I pay whatever the rate we agrees on and I am not questioning if he deserves it or not based on his cost of operations.
I simply can’t believe the guts some guys have to discuss that like they know everything and they could do better. Wtf is that seriously ??

I never ever ever get mad on Terb or any other social platform, but this is just so wrong in any ways possible.
Who are you clients to tell us how much our body worth ?
This is infuriating..

I am officially discussed by this thread ...

Yark !!!