And today's mass shooting 11 dead in Virginia Beach Municipal Complex

[Grimnul]

Wow, so much happening here. Full disclosure, I am a responsible fire arm owner, so I am more on the pro gun side. I am not good at picking out multiple quotes so please bare with me.

As for the earlier arguments regarding tightening up gun laws having an effect on the up rise of gun ownership, this is true. It was mentioned earlier that doing nothing as an immediate reaction to gun violence would prevent the increase of gun ownership. You only need to look at what is going on here to see that this comment is correct. When government says something (gun related) will be taken off the shelves, a spike of purchases happens in fear of the product not being available in the near future. This is not THE answer, but a start for those who want less guns sold.

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/n...els-of-assault-style-rifles-in-canada-317428/

Silencers (suppressors)
Silencers / suppressors were invented over 100 years ago. I don't know what it was officially called then but suppression is the functioning act. I'm not sure if anyone here has fired a weapon with one of these on, but trust me when I tell you, it is not silent. The majority of the noise comes from the ignition of the gun powder and all of the energy forcing the projectile out one way. Not recommended, but if you were to have a bullet (9mm or 45) discharge when not in a chamber, you would hear more of a snap. Think of the old caps on red paper when your were a kid but a little louder of course. I've seen (and heard) it happen.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/law/crime-and-law-enforcement/silencers

I don't claim to know the albeit answer in regards of gun violence. I do think that our current laws regarding ownership in Ontario are reasonable. I would like to see some things change in favor of gun ownership. I would also like to see MANY things change in regards of criminal prosecution when convicted of gun violence. Correction; in any violence. Also in illegal ownership. The punishments IMO should be more hard than they are now. We do not need access to automatic firearms as there is minimal control, so the argument for sport shooting or hunting can not be made. Semi-auto guns fire one projectile per pull of the trigger. There is control involved.

A gun is just a tool. Yes a tool that can be used for hurting and killing. But so was / is slings, sling shots, spears, knives, swords, bow and arrows, cross bows etc. None of which is banned or illegal. I agree with @wigglee that at some point we need to decide when does a "tool" have too much destructive power and should not be accessible for public use. Or a "civilian" version made for use. If guns are the threshold, then lets destroy all of them and remove their existence from this world. If it meant that now one would die of violence, I would gladly just stick to archery or cross bow for sport....until that becomes the next tool to attack as an evil item.

Its unfortunate but there will always be violence from whack jobs and those suffering from mental illness. There is a lot of public attacks in other countries such as Japan and England as an example where fire arms are not as easily accessible. The "Tool" of choice there now a days seems to be long knives (such as machete) and vehicles. No one is calling for a ban on these items.

Sorry for the long read, but that's just my two cents.

Let’s be honest here: a gun is not a tool. It is a weapon. A gun serves no purpose other than shooting things, it can’t really be used for anything else. I mean, I guess you could use it to hammer in nails or something, but a hammer would do a better job, is cheaper, and you’d likely damage the gun doing that. Again, not saying no one should be able to have a gun ever, but to assert that a gun is a tool is just disingenuous.

A knife is a tool because it has many uses. Cooking, opening packages, grooming, clearing brush, whittling, the list goes on. Also, it’s much harder to kill someone with a knife than it is with a gun, because you have to get close and your target has a much better chance to fight back. It’s also very unlikely that you’ll be able to kill anywhere near as many people with a knife than you would with a gun.

 

[avg guy]

Let’s be honest here: a gun is not a tool. It is a weapon.

What of a sling, sling shot, sword, a bow, cross bow.... These have no other purpose than hitting a target, yet they are all ok and no one seems to care that they are not illegal or restricted. In fact you don't need a license for any of them.

I'm really not trying to be disingenuous. By definition it is a tool. Yes one that can inflict damage, but so can all target shooting items and most construction tools if used in that manner.

Tool;
1. a device or implement, especially one held in the hand, used to carry out a particular function.

Open question to both pro and anti-gun; What would your solution be to help the fight against mass violence or increase in gun violence in particular? There is a lot of "Guns are good because its my right", "Guns are bad because they can hurt and are evil", but no real suggestions to curb the violence or find a happy medium. I would suggest education and exposure to start. For those who are completely against, come out to a range and see what it is like to handle and fire a firearm. To expand on an earlier suggestions, put a cap on the power of fire arms available, to civilians or otherwise. If they are made at all, they will find a way to the streets.

 

[Grimnul]

I’m not completely against guns. I have friends who are responsible gun owners, I don’t see responsible gun owners as a problem. Hell, even though I think people don’t need guns, they should be able to have them if they want. We all have trivial hobbies. I collect high-end men’s fragrances. I have like 40 bottles. I don’t need them, but I like them, so I have them.

My problem is that you get these rabid pro-gun types who do nothing but deflect and stonewall every time something like this happens, and they completely stifle any conversation about what should be done to make things better. I don’t think it’s a simple issue, but it’s one that frankly isn’t even really being discussed aside from the usual “thoughts and prayers” lip service. I don’t think the status quo is acceptable. I think it’s absolutely monstrous that people seem to be ok with a few thousand people dying every year just so people can have guns to play with.

 

[cunning linguist]

Let's be honest, anti-gun people don't want to have an honest conversation nor do they want compromise. When you have people, like in this thread, who think that buying a gun is as simple as walking into a Walmart and putting cash on the table, what kind of intelligent conversation can take place?

 

[Darts]

Born and raised in rural Quebec so I've been around guns my entire pre-adult life. I think the Quebec gun registry is a step in the direction. Why would any law abiding, peaceful, responsible gun owner object to registering their guns?

https://globalnews.ca/news/4872541/francois-legault-no-changes-quebec-gun-registry/

 

[Grimnul]

Let's be honest, anti-gun people don't want to have an honest conversation nor do they want compromise. When you have people, like in this thread, who think that buying a gun is as simple as walking into a Walmart and putting cash on the table, what kind of intelligent conversation can take place?

More deflection, more strawman arguments. Still waiting on a gun person to propose any kind of solution whatsoever.

 

[Grimnul]

Born and raised in rural Quebec so I've been around guns my entire pre-adult life. I think the Quebec gun registry is a step in the direction. Why would any law abiding, peaceful, responsible gun owner object to registering their guns?

https://globalnews.ca/news/4872541/francois-legault-no-changes-quebec-gun-registry/

Because it’s not about having a problem with registering their guns. They just don’t like the gubment tellin’ ‘em what ter der!

 

[cunning linguist]

More deflection, more strawman arguments. Still waiting on a gun person to propose any kind of solution whatsoever.

And more misinformation and misdirection. Still waiting for officials to actually enforce the laws they already have instead of dreaming up new ways to further criminalize gun ownership.

 

[cunning linguist]

Born and raised in rural Quebec so I've been around guns my entire pre-adult life. I think the Quebec gun registry is a step in the direction. Why would any law abiding, peaceful, responsible gun owner object to registering their guns?

https://globalnews.ca/news/4872541/francois-legault-no-changes-quebec-gun-registry/

When talks of registration of all firearms began, the Prairies wanted to opt out, but Quebec insisted that the program be federal. When the long gun registry was scrapped, where was Quebec's sense of federalism then?

 

[Grimnul]

And more misinformation and misdirection. Still waiting for officials to actually enforce the laws they already have instead of dreaming up new ways to further criminalize gun ownership.

No misinformation or misdirection, I literally just said people should be allowed to have guns. I just want to hear how gun people propose we stop (or at least drastically reduce) these sorts of attacks. But that’s irrelevant. You’ve got nothing, so you just label me as an anti-gun nut so you don’t have to answer my question.

Seems you’re not such a cunning linguist after all.

 

[cunning linguist]

No misinformation or misdirection, I literally just said people should be allowed to have guns. I just want to hear how gun people propose we stop (or at least drastically reduce) these sorts of attacks. But that’s irrelevant. You’ve got nothing, so you just label me as an anti-gun nut so you don’t have to answer my question.

Seems you’re not such a cunning linguist after all.

No misdirection or misinformation", really? We've got one guy vehemently opposed to "silencers" even though he clearly doesn't understand them and we've got another one, you, I believe, who thinks buying a gun at Walmart is like buying groceries. You know which other store sells guns? Canadian Tire, neither process is as easy as you'd believe.

That's the thing about the gun argument, the vocal minority who shout the loudest are the least informed.

The US already has plenty of laws, how about enforcing some first, instead of operating revolving door prisons and dreaming up new ways of criminalizing gun owners?

 

[K Douglas]

Except a majority of Americans support greater restrictions on guns. Things like universal background checks would do nothing to law abiding gun owners but the NRA pushed paranoia has the hard core thinking that it is all a plot by the government to facilitate tyranny.

There are background checks in every state. Including at gun shows. The left perpetuates this false narrative that its so easy to buy a gun without getting checked. The only time checks aren't done are during private sales which represents an extremely minor portion of all gun sales.
As far as high capacity magazines are concerned I think it is pointless to outlaw them. It doesn't take much for a shooter to change magazine clips, something that can be done in mere seconds.
What I definitely believe should be outlawed (and they are in most states) are bump stocks. No need for those at all (self defense or hunting)

 

[shack]

What of a sling, sling shot, sword, a bow, cross bow.... These have no other purpose than hitting a target, yet they are all ok and no one seems to care that they are not illegal or restricted. In fact you don't need a license for any of them.

I'm really not trying to be disingenuous.

Maybe you are not, but how many killings or mass murders occur each year with these weapons?

 

[basketcase]

...

Americans have shown what they really want with their wallet. ....

So should opioids be an American right? A small number of Americans buy a lot of guns but the democratic system is one person, one vote, not one gun, one vote.

 

[basketcase]

...
Saying just wear earplugs shows you've never shot at an indoor range or lived near a shooting range.....

Are you really trying to say that shooters at ranges usually use suppressors? I haven't gone for a few years but I don't recall seeing one on any of my past visits.

 

[basketcase]

... It's a very complicated issue. Simple solutions such as bans just aren't possible.

Other than the Gun companies possibly losing sales, what is wrong with the US saying all future sales need a mandatory background check? The only justification I have ever heard from the gun lobby is conspiracy theories that it's just the start of "gun grabbing".

 

[basketcase]

Yes I have. Sport shooting. You just keep ignoring it.....

Yes, the well entrenched democratic right to practice for the Olympics and therefore the need to carry that practice equipment everywhere you go.

Nothing wrong with Canadian law that lets you practice at a range but prevents you from showing off your toys all day.

 

[basketcase]

Even with the training the police get, there's no guarantee that the police will be able to effectively respond as the skills and abilities of police officers vary much more than say a soldier specifically deployed in an infantry role. ...

I love this argument. We need random people with random amounts of training to be armed because even police can't be trusted to shoot straight.

 

[basketcase]

Yeah, but you should just do your target shooting with slingshots....

I prefer archery. If I enjoyed shooting animals for food I would use a bow.

 

[basketcase]

Office and factory workers should be commuting to work in compact cars, not pickup trucks....

And they all need to be licensed!! Damn car grabbers.