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The world has barely 10 years to get climate change under control U.N. scientists say

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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All these things have happened in the past even when there was no warming period.

But okay, lets say your theory is correct, can you then explain why the Roman Empire flourished during the Roman Warming period.
At one point the Romans had conquered almost all of Western Europe.

While you're at it could you also explain why that warming period happened??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Warm_Period
http://geoawesomeness.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/WorldRomanEmpire.gif
Your maps and charts, you 'splain what point you're trying to make with them. Just BTW look what was going on climate-wise when the Vandals, Goths Huns and such were collapsing that Roman Empire in the west. And while you're staring at your own chart, trying to understand it, measure out a person's typical life span; it runs about 1/8" horizontally on that graph

Here's the deal: Even if the climate's changing through some natural warming cycle, it's stupid to stay out, frying in the sun someplace that floods. And smart to invest in non-polluting technology, that doesn't add to the problem. Back when those Romans were walking all over Europe and Asia, there were only a few million humans on the entire planet, and all they could pollute with were some burning sticks. Now we pollute with a whole variety of means, Even if you walk to the grocery store, every single raw vegetable and fruit has already pumped more smoke into the air just getting to McNastyVille to equal a Roman cook-fire or two. And there's approaching ten billion of us doing it. The Romans could leave a mostly empyty Europe to their descendants; it still was covered in Old Growth forests. There's no place for us to ;leave our trash and pollutats except where our kids and grandkids will have to live.

So do tell us why we should do nothing. Or whatever it is you're trying to get across, now that you've discovered maps and charts.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
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Buying false misinformation from alt right websites is 100% false and is 0% Science. Period!!
The prediction about the Himalayan glaciers and the analysis that the temperature predictions in the IPCC's 2007 report were totally wrong came directly from the IPCC.

By contrast, the claim that there are two Groggy/Frankfooters posting on TERB and the conspiracy theory that Phil C. McNasty and I are the same person both came from one of your champions on the "science." :rockon:
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
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toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
15,971
6,110
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The prediction about the Himalayan glaciers and the analysis that the temperature predictions in the IPCC's 2007 report were totally wrong came directly from the IPCC.

By contrast, the claim that there are two Groggy/Frankfooters posting on TERB and the conspiracy theory that Phil C. McNasty and I are the same person both came from one of your champions on the "science." :rockon:
The fact that it has not happened yet does not make the prediction wrong. If you are waiting for a train and it is late it does not mean the train is not coming.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,706
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Your maps and charts, you 'splain what point you're trying to make with them. Just BTW look what was going on climate-wise when the Vandals, Goths Huns and such were collapsing that Roman Empire in the west. And while you're staring at your own chart, trying to understand it, measure out a person's typical life span; it runs about 1/8" horizontally on that graph

Here's the deal: Even if the climate's changing through some natural warming cycle, it's stupid to stay out, frying in the sun someplace that floods. And smart to invest in non-polluting technology, that doesn't add to the problem. Back when those Romans were walking all over Europe and Asia, there were only a few million humans on the entire planet, and all they could pollute with were some burning sticks. Now we pollute with a whole variety of means, Even if you walk to the grocery store, every single raw vegetable and fruit has already pumped more smoke into the air just getting to McNastyVille to equal a Roman cook-fire or two. And there's approaching ten billion of us doing it. The Romans could leave a mostly empyty Europe to their descendants; it still was covered in Old Growth forests. There's no place for us to ;leave our trash and pollutats except where our kids and grandkids will have to live.

So do tell us why we should do nothing. Or whatever it is you're trying to get across, now that you've discovered maps and charts
Guess what, I'm fine with that. I'm all for finding cleaner fuel sources.
We're gonna have to because oil will eventually run out anyways.

But the main topic of this thread is whether global warming is real or not, and so far I have seen very little evidence.
You also didnt answer my 2 questions. Here they are again:

1. Can you explain why the Roman Empire flourished during the Roman Warming period??
2. Can you also explain why that warming period happened??
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,713
5,848
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The prediction about the Himalayan glaciers and the analysis that the temperature predictions in the IPCC's 2007 report were totally wrong came directly from the IPCC.

By contrast, the claim that there are two Groggy/Frankfooters posting on TERB and the conspiracy theory that Phil C. McNasty and I are the same person both came from one of your champions on the "science." :rockon:
This article sums up the Climate denial linked to conspiratorial thinking in new study:

A new study has examined the comments on climate science-denying blogs and found strong evidence of widespread conspiratorial thinking. The study looks at the comments made in response to a previous paper linking science denial and conspiracy theories.

Motivated rejection of science:
Three years ago, social scientists Lewandowsky, Oberauer, and Gignac published a paper in the journal Psychological Science titled NASA Faked the Moon Landing—Therefore, (Climate) Science Is a Hoax: An Anatomy of the Motivated Rejection of Science.

The paper detailed the evidence the scientists found that, using survey data provided by visitors to climate blogs, those exhibiting conspiratorial thinking are more likely to be skeptical of scientists’ conclusions about vaccinations, genetically modified foods, and climate change. This result was replicated in a follow-up study using a representative U.S. sample that obtained the same result linking conspiratorial thinking to climate denial.
Of course science denial and conspiracies go hand in hand
Advertisement

This shouldn’t be a terribly shocking result. When confronted with inconvenient science, those in denial often reject the evidence by accusing the experts of fraud or conspiracies. We saw a perfect example of this behavior just a few weeks ago. When scientists at NOAA published a paper finding that there was no ‘pause’ in global warming, one of the most common responses from those in denial involved the conspiratorial accusation that the scientists had somehow fudged the data at the behest of the Obama administration.

Nevertheless, nobody likes being characterized as a conspiracy theorist, and so those in the denial blogosphere reacted negatively to the research of Lewandowsky and colleagues. Ironically, many of the attacks on the study involved conspiratorial accusations, which simply provided more data for the social scientists to analyze. For example, the authors were accused of everything from faked data to collusion between Lewandowsky and the Australian government.

Recursive Fury:
As a result, a year later Lewandowsky, Cook, Oberauer, and Marriott published Recursive fury: conspiracist ideation in the blogosphere in response to research on conspiracist ideation. The paper analyzed blog comments that mentioned the Moon Landing paper. It became the most-read paper ever published by the journal Frontiers in Psychology.

However, the study was subsequently accused of being defamatory because the public blog comments had not been made anonymous in the paper. At the request of Frontiers, the authors anonymized the comments, but the journal still withdrew the paper out of fear of legal action. Its failure to stand behind sound scientific research led to the resignation of three of Frontiers’ editors: Ugo Bardi, Björn Brembs, and Colin Davis.

Subsequent to the withdrawal of Recursive Fury, Frontiers published an article that denied the link between HIV and AIDS. Despite widespread protest from the scientific community, the journal declined to withdraw the paper and instead classified it as an “opinion” piece. More recently, Frontiers fired 31 Editors in the medical arena, who expressed concern that Frontiers’ publication practices are designed to maximize the company’s profits, not the quality of papers, and that this could harm patients.

The latest study: Recurrent Fury
Lewandowsky, Cook, Oberauer, Brophy, Lloyd, and Marriott have now published Recurrent fury: Conspiratorial discourse in the blogosphere triggered by research on the role of conspiracist ideation in climate denial in a different journal - the Journal of Social and Political Psychology.

In this latest study, university undergraduate students (mainly psychology majors) were given the comments from denial blogs, together with genuine scientific critiques of the Moon Landing paper provided by 3 psychology PhD students at the University of Bristol.

In order to make this a blind test, participants were told the comments related to an unnamed scientific paper. The participants were asked to classify the comments, for example as types of conspiratorial thinking (e.g. questioning the motives of the authors of the paper) or as reasonable scientific critiques.

In the end, the participants clearly identified the comments from science-denying blogs as conspiratorial in nature, and the comments from the 3 PhD students as genuine scientific critiques. In fact, the results were quite strong.

Normally we might expect the data to have a shape similar to that of a Bell Curve, with some of the comments mentioning the Moon Landing paper exhibiting a moderate level conspiratorial thinking, but few to an extreme degree. On the contrary, the results were heavily skewed, with most denial blog comments about the paper being heavily suspicious and questioning the motives of the authors.

I do not recall ever having seen such a strong effect in 30 years of behavioural research, and I have certainly never encountered ratings that favoured the extreme end of the scale to the extent observed here.

Conspiracies and skepticism don’t mix:
Given that those denying a 97% consensus among scientific experts must find a reason to reject that consensus, it’s not at all surprising that conspiratorial thinking is common among those who deny climate science. Conspiracy theories have even become a prime argument against climate policy among some top Republican presidential candidates like Ted Cruz, who said in a recent interview,

I think the data is driven by politicians who have always supported more government control.
However, Lewandowsky explains why he believes the results of his study are important, if not surprising,

a. Conspiracism, by definition, is not skepticism. Hence it is important to show that self-anointed “skeptics” are not skeptical.
b. The blog content was identified not only as conspiracist, but also as lacking in scholarly incisiveness. This is very important because it shows that conspiracism isn’t “a price you pay for skepticism”—on the contrary, conspiracism detracts from scholarly critique.
c. The public is entitled to know what is happening on blogs, given that there is a pipeline from blogs to right-wing media to (in some countries) Parliament and/or harassment of meteorological and climatological institutions.
The key finding of Recurrent Fury is that those who label themselves global warming “skeptics” share more in common with those paranoid of a one-world government than with Galileo.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...inked-to-conspiratorial-thinking-in-new-study

So the 97% of Scientists believe in Climate Change is man Made. I guess you and McNasty must fall in the 3% of Skeptics.

 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
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This article sums up the Climate denial linked to conspiratorial thinking in new study:
Let me put the same question to you that I put to Frankfooter.

The IPCC spent two years defending its fairy-tale prediction that the Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035.

During those two years, did you believe the Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035?
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,706
3,865
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So the 97% of Scientists believe in Climate Change is man Made. I guess you and McNasty must fall in the 3% of Skeptics
Let me ask you a staightforward question. I dont know how old you are, but since ever you can remember, have Toronto winters warmed up at all??
And if you're between the age of 20 to 30 maybe ask your dad and/or your grandfather this question.

Please just answer the question with yes or no
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,713
5,848
113
Let me put the same question to you that I put to Frankfooter.

The IPCC spent two years defending its fairy-tale prediction that the Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035.

During those two years, did you believe the Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035?
They have admitted their mistake over the disappearance of the Himalayan Glaciers, although there is enough of evidence over the receding of these glaciers over the years. Everyone does make a mistake and at least they admit it. We know that Trump and his Government's lies, falsehoods etc. are never admitted, as well as there are no apologies as well.

The right wing media / tobacco scientists / rogue scientists are also denying that the Arctic Glaciers are rapidly melting away, and insist that it is part of a "Global Climate Cycle" as they will be back to their normal glacier levels in a few decades or whenever their conspiracy theories randomly assign that fantasy cycle period.

So are you saying that the disappearance of the ice / snow in the Arctic is false?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
83,880
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Let me put the same question to you that I put to Frankfooter.

The IPCC spent two years defending its fairy-tale prediction that the Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035.

During those two years, did you believe the Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035?
The IPCC says the prediction was wrong: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jan/20/ipcc-himalayan-glaciers-mistake

Furthermore, the IPCC also admitted it was totally baseless. There was never any evidence supporting the fairy-tale prediction.

So, what exactly occurred during the IPCC peer review process that the zealots insist is so rigorous?
Wow, are you still on about the one and only error your denier sites could find out of thousands of pages of reports?
As if this one error, from 11 years ago, is really that important?

So lame.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
83,880
19,039
113
Let me ask you a staightforward question. I dont know how old you are, but since ever you can remember, have Toronto winters warmed up at all??
And if you're between the age of 20 to 30 maybe ask your dad and/or your grandfather this question.

Please just answer the question with yes or no
Is this your attempt at peer reviewed science?
Seems like its about as close as you'd ever get.

So wrong on every level.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Wow, are you still on about the one and only error your denier sites could find out of thousands of pages of reports?
As if this one error, from 11 years ago, is really that important?

So lame.
Wrong. The IPCC's 2015 report said the temperature predictions in the 2007 report were wrong (you can try reading the link for yourself).

And let's not forget the IPCC said in 2007 that if world leaders didn't "reverse" global emissions by 2015 (which they didn't), it would now be "too late." You've apparently rejected that conclusion, as well.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
They have admitted their mistake over the disappearance of the Himalayan Glaciers, although there is enough of evidence over the receding of these glaciers over the years. Everyone does make a mistake and at least they admit it.
It took more than two years and the IPCC aggressively defended the baseless fairy-tale prediction over that time, with the chair of the IPCC going so far as to accuse an Indian scientific leader who questioned the prediction of practising "voodoo science."

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/e...odoo-sciencersquo-comment/article16839047.ece

Meanwhile, you didn't answer my question. During the two years the IPCC was promoting this fairy tale, did you believe it was true?

You also may wish to consider whether you really want to be siding with Frankfooter, who is now just lying with his "one and only error" bullshit -- a blatantly false claim refuted by the IPCC itself.

https://www.nature.com/news/climate-change-the-case-of-the-missing-heat-1.14525
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,713
5,848
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It took more than two years and the IPCC aggressively defended the baseless fairy-tale prediction over that time, with the chair of the IPCC going so far as to accuse an Indian scientific leader who questioned the prediction of practising "voodoo science."

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/e...odoo-sciencersquo-comment/article16839047.ece

Meanwhile, you didn't answer my question. During the two years the IPCC was promoting this fairy tale, did you believe it was true?

You also may wish to consider whether you really want to be siding with Frankfooter, who is now just lying with his "one and only error" bullshit -- a blatantly false claim refuted by the IPCC itself.

https://www.nature.com/news/climate-change-the-case-of-the-missing-heat-1.14525
Again you cannot comprehend my answer to your question and I see you conveniently decided not to answer the question that I asked. First of all there is enough evidence to show that the Himalayan Glaciers are receding, although not to the extent that they will disappear by 2035. That is what I believe. There will have to be further studies to indicate more scientifically when the glaciers will disappear.

So are you saying that the disappearance of the ice / snow in the Arctic is false??

When are you going to answer the above question??

Also, I will believe these scientific studies:

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

That is why 97% of all the Scientists support their studies.

You seem to get very personal when others on this board disagree with your political motives / myths. We know that the Climate Change Deniers are right wing and cannot accept anything that Trumpty Dumpty wants them not to believe. In other words I do not buy the Climate Change deniers "Fairy Tales".
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,713
5,848
113
Let me ask you a staightforward question. I dont know how old you are, but since ever you can remember, have Toronto winters warmed up at all??
And if you're between the age of 20 to 30 maybe ask your dad and/or your grandfather this question.

Please just answer the question with yes or no
Yes, we have barely had a Fall Season this year. Are you saying that the summer was not warmer than usual this year? In other words your question is very childish. Take a look at these articles and if you cannot understand what climate change is about in spite of two of those very destructive hurricanes to recently hit the USA that was definitely due to much higher ocean temperatures then nothing will:

https://www.utoronto.ca/news/why-has-it-been-so-cold-winter-toronto-u-t-experts-break-it-down

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/JCLI-D-16-0562.1
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,706
3,865
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Yes, we have barely had a Fall Season this year. Are you saying that the summer was not warmer than usual this year? In other words your question is very childish. Take a look at these articles and if you cannot understand what climate change is about in spite of two of those very destructive hurricanes to recently hit the USA that was definitely due to much higher ocean temperatures then nothing will:

https://www.utoronto.ca/news/why-has-it-been-so-cold-winter-toronto-u-t-experts-break-it-down

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/JCLI-D-16-0562.1
I thought weather =/= climate. So how can you take one fall season and one warm summer as proof of climate change??
Also hurricanes have decreased over the last decade or two.

Just FYI my original question was have our winters gotten warmer over the last 30 to 50 years (as a whole)??
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
I thought weather =/= climate. So how can you take one fall season and one warm summer as proof of climate change??
Also hurricanes have decreased over the last decade or two.

Just FYI my original question was have our winters gotten warmer over the last 30 to 50 years (as a whole)??
Very enterprising of you, inventing your own 'not equal to' sign, but I'll bet your keyboard already has one. Try an 'alt-=' key combo, or 'option-=' on a Mac.
 
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