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Ford to slash Toronto city council to 25 councillors from 47, sources say

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,899
3,517
113
You just lost the argument.
Mamolita has stated that the Ford plan really is to lessen the number of downtown and left leaning councillors.
This is gerrymandering, its anti-democratic.
Same could be said of only adding councillors to downtown. Gerrymandering.

Beyond that the councillors will have to appeal to a broader audience. And make for more centrist representation.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,899
3,517
113
IF they want to pay for the extravagant thing, by all means. If they're trying to get the entire City to foot the bill, it should be as useful to the entire City as other better options. Open a thread if you want another discussion of the details of those; it's abundantly clear they were less expensive and would have served more of us better.

I may not like the windmill on my neighbour's rooftop, or farm field, but that doesn't mean I have a right to prevent her from putting it there if she follows the planning and building codes. Are you saying Wynne forced those turbines on those farmers? Again, if you want to debate the merits of such things, start a thread.

Neither of those speak to the issues of democratic municipal governance I mentioned.
She did. When they tried to prevent them via zoning she kyboshed it. Direct interference.

No different then injection sites, homeless shelters, and other issues. Then it's nimbyism right?

Using your excuse is hoisting yourself by your own petard. Sometimes unpopular decisions are made. On both sides.

You just don't like it because you personally don't like it. Not because its anti democratic.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
As they should, and the people who live and work there should make the decisons about those places (you do know they're separate municipalities don't you?) just as those who live and work in the downtown should decide how it is governed. And all of us who mix and mingle everywhere are the ones who should decide how the whole place operates.

None of which makes Toronto's Council any business of a bunch of PC MPPs from places like Renfrew, Wiarton and and Welland to decide. But they're the only folks Dougie could get to go along with his petulant get-even scheme.
You missed my point in my response to SirWanker:

"Seeing that a majority of residential and business development is concentrated in the downtown core, it is important to maintain that healthy environment, no?"

My response was to that as he was suggesting Toronto core should get some kind of special treatment because a lot of businesses are located there. My point was that times are changing and businesses are moving out of the core.
 

Boober69

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2012
6,722
263
83
His business, Deco Labels, is not doing that great since he failed to adapt to the new business requirements and screwing over existing loyal clients to pander to potential new customers.
Keeping promises is not a reliable measure of a successful businessman.
Really?
So what are reliable measures? And how do they relate to being a good politician?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,542
18,139
113
Same could be said of only adding councillors to downtown. Gerrymandering.
Not at all, adding councillors downtown adapts to the changing demographics, with more way more people living downtown now in condos.
The status quo needs changing, but only to give downtown the representation that its increasing population deserves.

Ford is still trying to screw the downtown.
 

SirWanker

Active member
Apr 6, 2002
1,677
8
38
Agincourt
You missed my point in my response to SirWanker:

"Seeing that a majority of residential and business development is concentrated in the downtown core, it is important to maintain that healthy environment, no?"

My response was to that as he was suggesting Toronto core should get some kind of special treatment because a lot of businesses are located there. My point was that times are changing and businesses are moving out of the core.
I was referring more to the residential portion, sir.
It has been increasing at a rate where it required additional representation on City Council, that had been democratically approved earlier after numerous consulting sessions and was to be implemented for this upcoming municipal election.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
The world used to have a proliferation of city states. No more. In Ontario, the incorporation of cities are merely a way that the Province can decide to download some of its government authority and responsibilities. The notion that the tradesman must ask his tool how to do his job is logically unpersuasive to me.

There might have been a good argument for consulting city Councillors to obtain their insights as to the impact of changes in governance, if the Premier didn't happen to a former Councillor himself. In these circumstances, further consultation was completely unnecessary.

Seems like some on this thread are, essentially, calling for the City of Toronto to have autonomy. That's a radically backward idea.
 

SirWanker

Active member
Apr 6, 2002
1,677
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Agincourt
There might have been a good argument for consulting city Councillors to obtain their insights as to the impact of changes in governance, if the Premier didn't happen to a former Councillor himself. In these circumstances, further consultation was completely unnecessary.
Doug Ford was as a useless councillor who did nothing to help his ward, was and still is deliberately ignorant on how municipal governance operated.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
Doug Ford was as a useless councillor who did nothing to help his ward, was and still is deliberately ignorant on how municipal governance operated.
Oh please, whether Ford was an effective Councillor or not, he had ample opportunity to experience just how ineffective Toronto Council is.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
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His attendance and voting record speaks volumes...…...
Are you truly arguing that Ford did not note the patent ineffectiveness of Council, despite serving on it? Or are you (meaninglessly) just expressing your criticism of Ford as a Councillor?
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,158
2,772
113
Are you truly arguing that Ford did not note the patent ineffectiveness of Council, despite serving on it? Or are you (meaninglessly) just expressing your criticism of Ford as a Councillor?
Are you truly arguing that Ford did not note the patent dysfunction that he and his bro brought to Council, despite he and his bro creating that dysfunction? Or are you meaninglessly just expressing your criticism of council as not Ford Bros. induced?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6JLHDXb894
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
Are truly arguing that Ford did not note the patent dysfunction that he and his bro brought to Council, despite he and his bro creating that dysfunction? Or are you meaninglessly just expressing your criticism of council as not Ford Bros. induced?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6JLHDXb894
Despite being no fan of Doug Ford, you'll have to do better to convince me that he was so powerful that he single-handedly brought Council to a standstill. I haven't noticed them accomplishing much since he left Council.

Although I did appreciate the laugh of seeing that green Oompa Loompa yelling at the Fords from the peanut gallery.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
She did. When they tried to prevent them via zoning she kyboshed it. Direct interference.

No different then injection sites, homeless shelters, and other issues. Then it's nimbyism right?

Using your excuse is hoisting yourself by your own petard. Sometimes unpopular decisions are made. On both sides.

You just don't like it because you personally don't like it. Not because its anti democratic.
She did what? They who? Then injection sites, then nimbyism? What don't I like because I don't like it, and how is that hoisting myself on anyone's petard? None of what you've said here makes sense.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
You missed my point in my response to SirWanker [who said]:

"Seeing that a majority of residential and business development is concentrated in the downtown core, it is important to maintain that healthy environment, no?"

My response was to that[,] as he was suggesting Toronto core should get some kind of special treatment because a lot of businesses are located there. My point was:
...which is why big companies like KPMG have moved out of downtown to Vaughn? PWC to Oakville?
And many more...
It appears the healthy environments are sprouting outside downtown no?
[i.e] that times are changing and businesses are moving out of the core.
to which I [oldjones] replied[with added emphasis, and additional words this time]:
As they should [move if they choose], and the people who live and work there should make the decisons about those places (you do know they're separate municipalities don't you?) just as those who live and work in the downtown should decide how it is governed. And all of us who mix and mingle everywhere are the ones who should decide how the whole place operates.

None of which makes Toronto's Council any business of a bunch of PC MPPs from places like Renfrew, Wiarton and and Welland to decide. But they're the only folks Dougie could get to go along with his petulant get-even scheme.
If anyone missed anything it was you, overlooking that I agreed with you on that one point. Now you can see the whole volley with some bits and edits I added for greater clarity. Pronouns with antecedents buried in previous posts are a trap.

The point about Toronto deciding for Toronto, which you have ignored, still stands. It's the only bit relevant to the topic.
 

SirWanker

Active member
Apr 6, 2002
1,677
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38
Agincourt
Despite being no fan of Doug Ford, you'll have to do better to convince me that he was so powerful that he single-handedly brought Council to a standstill. I haven't noticed them accomplishing much since he left Council.

You could have fooled me on that.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,158
2,772
113
Despite being no fan of Doug Ford, you'll have to do better to convince me that he was so powerful that he single-handedly brought Council to a standstill. I haven't noticed them accomplishing much since he left Council.

Although I did appreciate the laugh of seeing that green Oompa Loompa yelling at the Fords from the peanut gallery.
Despite being a fan of Doug Ford, you'll have to do better to convince any sane and reasonable person that he and his bro were anything but disruptive and dysfunctional forces on City Council and throughout the city.

I agree that you haven't noticed much, although I do appreciate the unintended laughs your posts have provided me and many others on this board.
 

SirWanker

Active member
Apr 6, 2002
1,677
8
38
Agincourt
Despite being no fan of Doug Ford, you'll have to do better to convince me that he was so powerful that he single-handedly brought Council to a standstill. I haven't noticed them accomplishing much since he left Council.
You could have fooled me on that.
I guess you failed to read the threads on the PCO leadership race.
More like I have better things to do than search and read your previous postings on other threads.
 
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