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Ford Scraps New Sex Ed

oldjones

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It's not backward, it's pragmatic. In a democracy, it doesn't matter why we agree, it matters THAT we agree. And that matters most of all when we can agree what to do but can't agree on the "why". Of course, your insistence in framing the code of conduct as a "subject" illustrates my point as to what the problem is.

Not everything pertaining to real life need be taught in the schools, nor can it be. Parents can supplement the schools curriculum in any way they wish, and children will continue to learn about a variety of topics through private study, extra-curricular activities, involvement in community groups (including religious groups), television, movies, the internet and their peers.

And of course there is always private post secondary education (hopefully paid for by the student) to explore the myriad "whys' involved in any field of study of the student's choice (subject to inevitable usurpation of that choice by government if it decides to assume all post secondary funding).
Show me where any folks in dispute actually agree on the what that should or could be taught. Never mind why. Your first point is as imagined as the notion I called your 'Code' idea a subject.

The second is a truism which ignores what universal public education is for, and what it does. No one has suggest parents cannot do as you describe. But leaving kids to learn whatever wherever has never worked in practice, and every known society has put kids into the best schools it could as soon as it could.

I can't believe your third point addresses sex-ed at all. The idea that only the privileged few should study and acquire real knowledge and only in university — of any and all subjects — like fictional Victorian virgins is too preposterous. But what is your point?
 

Bud Plug

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Show me where any folks in dispute actually agree on the what that should or could be taught. Never mind why. Your first point is as imagined as the notion I called your 'Code' idea a subject.

The second is a truism which ignores what universal public education is for, and what it does. No one has suggest parents cannot do as you describe. But leaving kids to learn whatever wherever has never worked in practice, and every known society has put kids into the best schools it could as soon as it could.

I can't believe your third point addresses sex-ed at all. The idea that only the privileged few should study and acquire real knowledge and only in university — of any and all subjects — like fictional Victorian virgins is too preposterous. But what is your point?
I'll give you an easy example. Almost everyone agrees that it's wrong to assault/bully/harass schoolmates who are gay. However, that doesn't mean they agree on the reasons why. Some people may think being gay is a sin, but still think it's wrong to bully even sinners. Others may think you shouldn't bully gay people because you are acting out of a hatred of people you should view as no different than yourself. Still others may believe you shouldn't bully gay people because of their particular propensity to suicide. And on, and on. What matters is whether bullying happens or doesn't, not why people comply with the policy. Further it is unnecessary for a kid to understand why someone is gay, or how similar or different it is to be gay rather than straight, to understand that he's not allowed to bully such a person, FOR ANY REASON. And for those who can't follow the rules, they will be disciplined, REGARDLESS OF THEIR REASONS FOR BULLYING.

Your last point might mis-perceive the scope of what I am talking about. I am not against teaching kids about reproduction/contraception in schools. These are matters of science. That question is only about when, not if, with respect to those issues. However, these are not code of conduct issues dressed up as subjects. They aren't code of conduct issues at all.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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I'll give you an easy example. Almost everyone agrees that it's wrong to assault/bully/harass schoolmates who are gay. However, that doesn't mean they agree on the reasons why. Some people may think being gay is a sin, but still think it's wrong to bully even sinners. Others may think you shouldn't bully gay people because you are acting out of a hatred of people you should view as no different than yourself. Still others may believe you shouldn't bully gay people because of their particular propensity to suicide. And on, and on. What matters is whether bullying happens or doesn't, not why people comply with the policy. Further it is unnecessary for a kid to understand why someone is gay, or how similar or different it is to be gay rather than straight, to understand that he's not allowed to bully such a person, FOR ANY REASON. And for those who can't follow the rules, they will be disciplined, REGARDLESS OF THEIR REASONS FOR BULLYING.

Your last point might mis-perceive the scope of what I am talking about. I am not against teaching kids about reproduction/contraception in schools. These are matters of science. That question is only about when, not if, with respect to those issues. However, these are not code of conduct issues dressed up as subjects. They aren't code of conduct issues at all.
For generations now, we have taught kids that bullying is wrong and they mustn't do it. And we've put it in the Criminal Code. If that worked, we wouldn't need to teach them that queers are NOT different and fair game, even if they heard their Dad sneer and deride faggots. All bullying is wrong; it has nothing to do with sex ed..

Your explanation of what you do approve of teaching and what is science and what is code is still as muddy as before. The point of education is always to make better people, no matter who and where people live or come from. Among all the other things they learn, better people learn to behave better all by themselves. If behaviour was all we wanted, we'd be talking about policing not teaching.

And we note that until very recently it was the law and police who bullied gays the worst. But we're learning, and doing better.
 

Bud Plug

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For generations now, we have taught kids that bullying is wrong and they mustn't do it. If that worked, we wouldn't need to teach them that queers are NOT different and fair game, even if they heard their Dad sneer and deride faggots. All bullying is wrong; it has nothing to do with sex ed.. It's just a sort of criminal assault, speaking of codes.
Are our theft laws not working because there continue to be thefts? Should there be a campaign to explain why theft is wrong? :)

There will always be some who defy the rules. The best you can do is to enforce them, and to ensure that the consequences of breaking the rules are significant enough to at least deter reasonable people.

Lastly, a lot of what is defined as bullying would not meet the definition of an assault. Thus, the need for codes of conduct.

Your explanation of what you do approve of teaching and what is science and what is code is still as muddy as before. The point of education is always to make better people, no matter who and where people live or come from. Among all the other things they learn, better people learn to behave better all by themselves. If behaviour was all we wanted, we'd be talking about cops not teaching.
Here we fundamentally disagree. I think the purpose of education is to provide knowledge and learning skills to children, hopefully to benefit them in their lives, including in their employment. I think it is the responsibility of parents to make their kids into better people (however those parents may define that term). It's the responsibility of government to create laws which define the minimum standards of behaviour in society.

The rest is called individual liberty.

And we note that until very recently it was the cops who bullied the gays. But we've learned.
Now, it appears, it's the gays who bully the cops (excluding them from Pride, blaming them for the McArthur murders).
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Are our theft laws not working because there continue to be thefts? Should there be a campaign to explain why theft is wrong? :)

There will always be some who defy the rules. The best you can do is to enforce them, and to ensure that the consequences of breaking the rules are significant enough to at least deter reasonable people.

Lastly, a lot of what is defined as bullying would not meet the definition of an assault. Thus, the need for codes of conduct.



Here we fundamentally disagree. I think the purpose of education is to provide knowledge and learning skills to children, hopefully to benefit them in their lives, including in their employment. I think it is the responsibility of parents to make their kids into better people (however those parents may define that term). It's the responsibility of government to create laws which define the minimum standards of behaviour in society.

The rest is called individual liberty.



Now, it appears, it's the gays who bully the cops (excluding them from Pride, blaming them for the McArthur murders).
That last sentence is untrue, and the name-calling is beneath you. Not accepting someone's request to join your parade is hardly bullying, Nor is criticizing an investigation, even if it notes that people may have been killed because it was prematurely concluded.

But you began with silly stuff that's less offensive: Laws don't make people behave, nor do codes that are less than laws. They may be effective and punish those who misbehave, but if they worked to end bad behaviour there'd be no first offenders, never mind repeat offenders. But that's all about policing, nothing to do with educating. It's tiresome to keep hearing it, howevermuch we can't manage without it.

What does work against theft, and against all other offences and wrongdoings is people deciding for themselves that they will not steal, nor do wrong. That takes better people, and that's what education — whether delivered by parents or by a school system — is for: To make better people. It's been true since Socrates, Confucius and before, all around the World from Japan to Joplin MO.

What you described is more like Trade School, and it's essential too, but it's only half the story. If parents had to do all you say is their job, they wouldn't have founded schools and hired teachers as fast as they got their sod huts up and roofed over. For millennia, all over the world they've seen the advantages to themselves, their families and their societies to gather their children together to learn the wisdom known to the elders. The planting and the harvesting and cooking and sewing kids could learn at home.

I'm still waiting for an example of your differing parents working out what they can agree on, instead of taking sides in opposition and each throwing the other's proposal in the dirt. Unlike the current Education Minister the previous one consulted widely and held open hearings where all views could be heard. This latest precipitous diktat isn't even in accord with the expressed opinion of the Minister's party, although it clearly pleases the base her Boss is beholden to.
 

Bud Plug

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Laws don't make people behave, nor do codes that are less than laws. They may be effective and punish those who misbehave, but if they worked to end bad behaviour there'd be no first offenders, never mind repeat offenders.
Well, you're on an island with your philosophy, since clearly every modern civilized society has laws and they are designed not just to punish misbehavior, but also to deter people from misbehaving in the first place. That's the whole purpose of publishing laws. Flip open any reported criminal court decision and you'll see what I'm talking about. Look for the key words "general deterrence".

To be brief as to the rest of your post, I'm not persuaded that the politicking that is packaged as social education, short of brain washing, ever changes any societal beliefs or behaviors. Brain washing does work, but it just substitutes one evil for another.
 

basketcase

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Don't be fooling yourself. Kids do not care about the sex ed program.
Actually they do. They don't have a chance to ask questions in other places and unlike some posters here, realize everything on the internet isn't true. PHE teacher I used to coach with had lots of stories about anonymous questions from kids in the class and the interest and lack of knowledge was scary.

Of course Ford (and his backers) are most afraid that kids may no longer think being gay is evil.
 

basketcase

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Only one comment is appropriate for this thread.

If you do not have any kids, then what right do you have in raising someone else's kid?

None!

:nod:
And I guess we shouldn't allow doctors to treat traumatic injuries unless they've been shot or stabbed, no more male OBGYNs since they've never given birth, and no more funeral directors or morticians unless they've been dead before.

Having seen how some parents raise their kids, maybe they shouldn't have that right either. Blowing your load in a woman doesn't make you suddenly become a competent parent and thankfully the government is willing to step in and try and fix some of the problems bad parents cause.

And better the kids learn stuff from a well trained person rather than just perpetuating whatever idiocy their parents learned in the previous century.
 

Ref

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Actually they do. They don't have a chance to ask questions in other places and unlike some posters here, realize everything on the internet isn't true. PHE teacher I used to coach with had lots of stories about anonymous questions from kids in the class and the interest and lack of knowledge was scary.

Of course Ford (and his backers) are most afraid that kids may no longer think being gay is evil.
Don't let the fear of a Ford government create a sense of paranoia in your thinking. Kids will not be brainwashed into thinking homosexuality is evil. Can you not remember when you were young? Were you easily swayed by the government or it's backers of the day on how you would feel towards homosexuality? I grew up in a time when homosexuality was frowned on but I was not forced into thinking that is how it should be. Fortunately my parents were open minded, but the village was not.

Kids are smarter than you think and believe it or not, they will form their own opinions on sexuality no mater what type of sex ed curriculum is in place. I agree that some kids will need help and hopefully they will turn to the right resource to find it. But the majority are fine, they will survive and they will have a healthy attitude towards sexuality.
 

bver_hunter

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The reversal of New Sex education come this hypocrite who has the following family history:

This investigative report reveals that:

Doug Ford, Toronto Mayor Rob Ford’s brother, sold hashish for several years in the 1980s.
Another brother, Randy, was also involved in the drug trade and was once charged in relation to a drug-related kidnapping.
Their sister, Kathy, has been the victim of drug-related gun violence.
In the 1980s, anyone wanting to buy hashish had to know where to go. And in central Etobicoke, the wealthy Toronto suburb where Mayor Rob Ford grew up, one of those places was James Gardens. In the evening, the sports cars often wound along Edenbridge Drive, past the gated homes and the lawn-bowling pitches, until they reached the U-shaped parking lot. By nightfall, the public park was a hash drive-thru. One former street dealer, whom we will call "Justin," described the scene as "an assembly line."


There were usually a number of dealers to choose from, some of them supplied by a mainstay at James Gardens – a young man with the hulk-like frame and mop of bright blond hair: Doug Ford. "Most people didn't approach Doug looking for product. You went to the guys that he supplied. Because if Doug didn't know you and trust you, he wouldn't even roll down his window," Justin said.

Today, Mr. Ford is a member of Toronto's city council – and no ordinary councillor. First elected in 2010 as his brother was swept into the mayor's office, he has emerged as a truly powerful figure at City Hall –– trying to overhaul plans for Toronto's waterfront less than a year after arriving. He also has higher aspirations, and has said he wants to follow in the footsteps of his father, Doug Ford Sr., by running in the next provincial election as a Conservative.

Meanwhile, he serves as his brother's de facto spokesman. As Toronto is gripped by allegations that its mayor was captured on a homemade video smoking what appears to be crack cocaine and his office descends into disarray – his chief of staff was fired on Thursday – Doug Ford has been the only person to mount a spirited public defence of his largely silent sibling. On Friday, after the Mayor finally made a statement about the accusation, he was the one who fielded questions from the press.

Well before the events of the past week, The Globe and Mail began to research the Ford brothers in an effort to chronicle their lives before rising to prominence in Canada's largest city. Over the past 18 months, it has sought out and interviewed dozens of people who knew them in their formative years.

What has emerged is a portrait of a family once deeply immersed in the illegal drug scene. All three of the mayor's older siblings – brother Randy, 51, and sister Kathy, 52, as well as Doug, 48 – have had ties to drug traffickers.

Ten people who grew up with Doug Ford – a group that includes two former hashish suppliers, three street-level drug dealers and a number of casual users of hash – have described in a series of interviews how for several years Mr. Ford was a go-to dealer of hash. These sources had varying degrees of knowledge of his activities: Some said they purchased hash directly from him, some said they supplied him, while others said they observed him handling large quantities of the drug.

The events they described took place years ago, but as mayor, Rob Ford has surrounded himself with people from his past. Most recently he hired someone for his office whose long history with the Fords, the sources said, includes selling hashish with the mayor's brother.

The Globe wrote to Doug Ford outlining what the sources said about him, and received a response from Gavin Tighe, his lawyer, who said the allegations were false. "Your references to unnamed alleged sources of information represent the height of irresponsible and unprofessional journalism given the gravely serious and specious allegations of substantial criminal conduct."


There's nothing on the public record that The Globe has accessed that shows Doug Ford has ever been criminally charged for illegal drug possession or trafficking. But some of the sources said that, in the affluent pocket of Etobicoke where the Fords grew up, he was someone who sold not only to users and street-level dealers, but to dealers one rung higher than those on the street. His tenure as a dealer, many of the sources say, lasted about seven years until 1986, the year he turned 22. "That was his heyday," said "Robert," one of the former drug dealers who agreed to an interview on the condition he not be identified by name.

Upon being approached, the sources declined to speak if identified, saying they feared the consequences of outing themselves as former users and sellers of illegal drugs.

The Globe also tried to contact retired police officers who investigated drugs in the area at the time. One said he had no recollection of encountering the Fords.

Another, whose name appeared on court documents in relation to allegations of assault and forcible confinement committed by Randy Ford, said he could not recall the incident. Several did not respond.

Since entering public life, both Fords have been ardent supporters of Toronto police and have campaigned, over the years, on increasing the police presence on Etobicoke's streets. In December, 2011, Doug Ford showed up, unannounced, at a police press conference to trumpet the force's crackdown on a network of drug dealers who were selling, among other things, marijuana.

Doug, like Rob, frequently promotes the Ford family as a type of brand – one that started with their late father's four-year tenure as an MPP in the government of former Ontario premier Mike Harris. Doug Ford is fond of invoking his family's contributions to the community. Through his involvement with the Rotary Club of Etobicoke, he has helped to organize events like the Etobicoke Fall Fair. He frequently mentions the many sports teams that the Ford family business, Deco Labels and Tags, has sponsored over the years. He also cites the many football teams his younger brother has coached, and the hordes of people – he puts the figure at 25,000 – the Fords have entertained at their annual backyard barbecue.

But long before he took over the family business and pursued public office, Doug Ford's circle of friends was a group of young people who called themselves the RY Drifters, after the Royal York Plaza, a strip mall many of them frequented.

The Fords' neighbourhood was paradoxical in some respects. It teemed with wealth; families who settled there after the Second World War, such as the Fidanis and the Brattys, would become known as the biggest players in Toronto-area land development. As his sticker and label business flourished, Doug Ford Sr. was featured in the society pages of The Globe, rubbing elbows with cabinet ministers, senators and members of the Eaton family.

But the prosperity disguised a disturbing trend among many of the area's young adults – an attraction to crime that went beyond typical teenage rebellion. Former Ford associates interviewed for this story identified at least 10 RY Drifters who became heroin addicts, some of whom turned to break-ins and robberies to support their habits.

In recent years, the Ford family home has become known for the annual barbecue, attended by hundreds of neighbours and a Who's Who of Conservative luminaries – including Prime Minister Stephen Harper and federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty. But in the 1980s, the finished basement at 15 Weston Wood Rd. was one of the many places Doug Ford did business, the sources said.

"Justin" recalled descending to the basement on one occasion to buy hash from Mr. Ford, and on numerous other occasions watching as it was sold.

He said he couldn't recall exactly how much hash he purchased that day, but that it was enough to require a triple-beam balance scale – the kind used in most high-school science classes. Normally, street-level dealers in that era relied on Pesola scales, the compact tubes often used by fishermen to weigh their catch. "If you went over [a quarter-pound], you had to go up to the three beamers – because you could get up to a few pounds on it," he explained.

As a dealer, Doug Ford was not highly visible. Another source, "Tom," who also supplied street-level dealers and has a long criminal record, said his girlfriend at the time would complain, whenever he was arrested, that he needed to be more calculating "like Doug." Mr. Ford's approach, sources said, was to supply a select group that in turn distributed smaller amounts across Etobicoke.

As well as James Gardens, a popular place to buy hash was the Royal York Plaza, also known as The Drift, because it offered a clear line of sight down Royal York Road and fair warning of any approaching police cruisers.

The mall is located steps from the Fords' childhood home. "If [Doug] wasn't going out, someone would go down to the house and pick it up and bring it down to the Royal York Plaza," said "Sheila," adding that she was an RY Drifter who bought small quantities of hash from Mr. Ford, and knew him to supply street-level dealers. "If Doug wasn't around, people … would sell it for him. It was an operation." The quantities that Mr. Ford handled were, at times, substantial. "Michael" said he remembered buying hash from Doug Ford at least half a dozen times – before he found a cheaper source – and that each time he bought between one-quarter and one-half of a pound. He said that a quarter-pound sold for between $400 and $425.

Like many of the street-level dealers interviewed, he said he sold hash in order to support his own smoking habits. When asked where Mr. Ford fit in the hierarchy of dealers in their neighbourhood, he replied: "He'd be at the top."

Turf wars were rare. Relations between dealers were so good, in fact, that in times of short supply, competitors turned to each other for help. "Robert," a former high-volume seller of hash, said he had an arrangement with Mr. Ford. "He would buy off me, sometimes I would buy off him."

"Tom," the high-volume hash dealer who admired Mr. Ford's ability to avoid scrutiny, also said he and Doug helped each other out during shortages. "We had all figured out that that kept the cops away. 'Let's keep things low-profile. Why start fights? There's enough money in it for everybody.' And most people agreed with that. Once the fights start and the guns come out, then the cops will be in and it will ruin it for everybody."

But the shunning of strong-arm tactics was not universal.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...ys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/
 

bver_hunter

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Marco Orlando had thick, curly black hair and round cheeks. He and his parents, Italian immigrants, lived in a bungalow on a quiet cul-de-sac a short walk from the Ford family home.

He was also supplied a lot of drugs on credit but was notoriously unreliable when it came to paying for them. Among his suppliers, the suspicion was that Marco was sharing his illicit proceeds with his parents and feigning poverty. So two weeks before Christmas, they hatched a plan, said "Tom," a drug dealer who said he was involved in the scheme.

On a Tuesday night, with the usual throng of young adults outside the Bank of Montreal at the Royal York Plaza, Marco was jumped, beaten and thrown into a car. He was driven more than 30 kilometres to a basement in Bolton, where someone called his parents, demanding they hand over the money. For 10 hours, Mr. Orlando was captive, but his parents didn't panic. Instead, they called the police. Within three days, all three men allegedly involved in the plot were under arrest. ("The powers-that-be blow things all out of proportion, and I guess technically it is kidnapping, but in our world, he owed us $5,000," said Tom.)

One of those arrested was Randy Ford, who was 24 at the time. Court records retrieved from the Archives of Ontario show that he was charged with assault causing bodily harm and the forcible confinement of Mr. Orlando. The records do not disclose how the case was resolved. Randy Ford's lawyer at the time, Dennis Morris – currently representing Rob Ford in the controversy over the alleged crack-cocaine video – said he did not recall the incident. He questioned the allegations surrounding the Ford family's past: "What's the point, other than a smear campaign?"

Since his brothers became leaders of Canada's largest city, Randy has largely remained in the background. Like them, he has blond hair and a wide frame; he also drives a Cadillac Escalade. One of the few times he has been photographed by the media was for a Toronto Star article during the 2010 election campaign. He posed with his brothers in front of a portrait of their father at the family business, where Randy oversees manufacturing. During the election-night speeches at the Toronto Congress Centre, he stood silently behind Doug, wearing a dark cowboy hat.

But in the past, he was much less low-key. Whether on his motorcycle or at the helm heel of the family sailboat – The Raymoni – he always went full throttle. When he fought, which was often, it was usually a one-sided affair.

"He was a terror," said Leo, another former associate of Doug Ford.

Numerous sources identified Randy Ford as former drug dealer, including one who identified himself as former partner, but he and Doug maintained distinctly separate operations. "Doug, being savvy as he was and as business-minded as he was, knew his brother was just too volatile," said "Justin," the street-level dealer who said he was supplied by Doug Ford.

The eldest Ford sibling, Kathy, has been subjected to media scrutiny over the years, primarily because she has been linked to a number of bizarre, violent and sensational incidents.

Most recently, in January, 2012, her long-time boyfriend, a convicted cocaine and hash dealer named Scott MacIntyre, was charged with threatening to murder the mayor at his Etobicoke home. He eventually pleaded guilty to a lesser offence and was given credit for time served.

(In a brief interview with CBC after the alleged death threat, Doug Ford said: "To be honest with you, I really don't know Scott MacIntyre." Photographs and video taken on the night of the 2010 election show that Mr. MacIntyre was part of the small group of family members celebrating with the new mayor, his wife, Renata, and Doug.)

Ms. Ford's relationship with Mr. MacIntyre is even more perplexing because of an earlier incident: In 2005, he and another man were accused of shooting her in the face during an altercation in her parents' basement. She survived the blast and was rushed to hospital, while Mr. MacIntyre fled in her mother's Jaguar. Crown prosecutors later dropped numerous charges against him, while his co-accused, Michael Patania, pleaded guilty to one count of possession of a handgun.

But even before that, there was gunplay – and it was fatal. Seven years earlier, Ms. Ford's lover was fatally shot by her ex-husband, a drug addict named Ennio Stirpe. At his trial, Mr. Stirpe testified that his victim, Michael Kiklas, was a martial artist, which forced him to bring along the shotgun as "an equalizer."

Not mentioned in the press at the time was the fact that Mr. Kiklas was a white supremacist – a group with which Ms. Ford associated in the 1980s.

Her friends included Gary MacFarlane, a founding member of the short-lived Canadian chapter of the Ku Klux Klan, as well as the late Wolfgang Droege, perhaps the most notorious white supremacist in Canadian history, a former Klansman told The Globe in an interview. Two other former associates of Ms. Ford confirmed her association with known white supremacists.

Among Mr. Droege's numerous criminal endeavours, he also sold cocaine and marijuana, which led to his death in 2005 when he was killed by a customer. Mr. Droege was incarcerated for much of the 1980s in U.S. prisons – both for drug trafficking and for his role in a bizarre plot to overthrow the government of Dominica in the Caribbean.

The former Klansman, who agreed to answer questions by e-mail on condition of anonymity, confirmed that Kathy Ford was close to the movement, but he said he couldn't recall meeting any of the Ford brothers. He described hanging out in the Fords' basement and being snubbed by Doug Sr. when Ms. Ford invited him to a party on the family boat. Her father, the former Klansman said, clearly did not approve of his beliefs, while she was engaging and fun but hardly a committed soldier in the race war.

"Some people are real 'believers' and know all the history, dates, facts etc… Others just join to piss off their parents, or carry out some other act of personal rebellion," he wrote. "Clearly [Kathy] was the latter camp."


It remains unclear how much Mayor Ford was exposed to his siblings' escapades and their issues with illegal drugs. He is considerably younger – Doug, the closest, is five years older. But at least one of Doug's closest and oldest friends has become an official adviser to the mayor's office. Several sources have identified David Price as a former participant in Doug Ford's hashish enterprise.

The morning after the Toronto Star and the U.S. gossip website Gawker alleged that journalists with both organizations had viewed a homemade video of the mayor smoking crack, a throng of reporters waited outside his home. Mr. Ford walked past them, uttered only four words – "these allegations are ridiculous" – and hopped into his SUV.

After driving only a few feet, he pulled to the side of the road and rolled down his window to chat with a man in a sunglasses and a blue shirt, Mr. Price. Moments later, Mr. Price appeared again, this time standing between videographers and Mr. Ford as they tried to film the mayor at the gas station at the end of his street.

Since he arrived at City Hall, the mayor's office has said almost nothing about what Mr. Price, called director of logistics and operations, is there to do. Concerning the hiring of Mr. Price, Doug Ford told Globe and Mail city hall reporter Elizabeth Church that "you can't teach loyalty."

Mr. Price first appeared in the office mere days after The Toronto Star revealed that the mayor had been asked to leave a military benefit gala by Councillor Paul Ainslie allegedly because he appeared intoxicated.

A few months before Mr. Price became a public official, he was approached by a Star reporter covering a football game being played by the high-school team coached by Mr. Ford. The reporter quoted Mr. Price as saying that he had coached the mayor in high school, and ever since he has been described in media reports as Rob Ford's former football coach turned aide.

However, four former dealers who spoke with The Globe described Mr. Price as a participant in Doug Ford's hash business in the 1980s.

Both men attended Scarlett Heights Collegiate Institute, where they played football and hockey. "Michael," a former street-level dealer, said he recalls being approached by a young David Price, who told him that Doug Ford had come into a large supply of hash. "I remember buying a quarter-pound," he said.

"Robert," once a large-scale supplier, called Mr. Price "Dougie's close ally" and described their hash business as "a partnership."

"Justin," a former street dealer, said: "They were two peas in a pod. They were both big, tough boys. It just became a natural thing."

He added: "Doug brought the supply, and Dave brought the demand."

According to Mr. Price's LinkedIn page, which has been taken down since he joined the mayor's office, he was Doug Ford's campaign manager in 2010, and graduated from York University in 1987 with a degree in economics and international relations.

Following that, he worked for decades at State Street Canada, a financial services company that provides investment management for institutional investors, such as pension and mutual funds. One former colleague described him as hard-working, very oriented toward customer service, and extremely opinionated when it came to politics. He left the company in 2011.

Mr. Price did not respond to several requests for comment.

Rob Ford was not a player in the Etobicoke drug trade. Several sources said they saw him around his brothers as they were doing business, but they said he didn't seem to be involved in a significant way.

It is difficult to determine what it was like for him growing up in this environment. His spokesman did not respond to requests for interviews. His closest friends from high school declined interview requests. Generally, it was only people who were on his periphery who agreed to speak.

As a teenager, the future mayor committed to football like it was a religion. He co-captained his junior team at Scarlett Heights Collegiate, which went a dismal 1-5 in the regular season one year, but shocked the league in the playoffs by making it to the championship and upsetting undefeated Etobicoke Collegiate. A yearbook photograph shows that "Robbie" – as he was known then – wore his leather championship jacket for at least three years after that victory.

He once played on Etobicoke's all-star team, a mixed bag of players from different high schools that was assembled in the summer to face off against all-star teams from Toronto's other boroughs.

It was a short and intense two weeks of back-to-back practices, which was necessary to inject cohesion into a mixed bag of young men who didn't know each other. Before each practice, they were told to run a mile. If they completed the run in under six minutes, they didn't have to complete it again for the rest of training camp. But if they failed, they had to keep running it at the start of every practice until they came in under the mark.

After a few days, there was only one person left chugging around the track.

"I remember Rob, who was about the same size as he is now, running this thing every day for like two weeks until he was the only guy running – but still giving it 100 per cent at the beginning of every practice until he finally made it," said Mike Lawler, a former Scarlett Heights coach.

"I just thought it took a lot for a kid to do that and not say 'to hell with it.' "

Another former Scarlett Heights football coach, Art Robinson, described young Rob as a leader, who was regularly the foreman in his shop class. There were even a few occasions, Mr. Robinson said, that Rob alerted him to students smoking pot on school grounds.

He went on to attend Carleton University. where he played football but never left the bench, one former teammate said. He dropped out in 1990, the end of his first year, he has told the online news service Openfile.

After that, he joined the family business, but unlike Doug, who ambitiously worked to grow the company, helping it expand to Chicago, his heart was not in it, several former employees said.

"Robbie just did not have the passion for labels," one long-time employee said. "He did what he had to do because it was the family business, but he did not show true passion until he got into politics."

His first run for public office came when he was 27, a council election that he lost. Undeterred, he became involved in several civic-minded campaigns – including one that targeted drug dealers and buyers.

In 1998, he teamed with his father and Toronto police for an unorthodox project, he later told The Etobicoke Guardian. In what would be the start of his unwavering tough-on-crime platform, he – at the time, 29 and unelected – and Doug Sr. – a backbencher at Queen's Park – travelled to Scarlettwood Courts, an Etobicoke public-housing complex, to rid it of illegal drugs.

"When people would drive through to buy drugs, we'd send the owner of the car a letter. It would tell them not come back to the area," Mr. Ford told the Guardian after he was elected to City Council in 2000. He said his crime-fighting campaign had helped him win the election and promised to take the battle to other low-income neighbourhoods.

But his personal war on drugs was short-lived. The year after their letter-writing campaign, he was arrested in Florida after being pulled over for impaired driving. Police also found a joint in his pocket – an offence not revealed until his 2010 mayoral campaign.

Throughout the reporting of this story, Doug Ford made several phone calls to Globe managers and reporters to complain about the questions being asked.

In November, 2011, he called a reporter in the evening to complain about the newspaper's "yellow" and "gutter" journalism.

"I'm getting calls from people I haven't talked to in 20 years," he said. When asked why he was so upset, he responded that he objected to "the type of questions" being asked.

"This is going to get ugly," he said, explaining that he was too "hot" at that moment to consider setting up a formal sit-down interview.

His call appeared to have been prompted by a brief interview The Globe had conducted that day, when a reporter asked a former associate about the RY Drifters – a group that he said never existed.

"It's like a folk tale," he said.
 

Smallcock

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In fact at that age lots of kids are quite uncertain why boys and girls are 'supposed' to be different; .
That's why they need direction and role models, the same way they need to be taught to wipe their own ass and why they're 'supposed' to wipe their ass.
 

Ref

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Beaver - Great post on the history of the Fords. With marijuana becoming legal in October our new premier certainly has the knowledge and experience of the drug trade to make better informed decisions on how to manage the provincial program. He also brings in some street cred (though it may now be outdated).

I will not dispute Ford's past as I experienced it in a different town. There were the local dealers and the game was pretty much the same, just different players. Afghanistan gold seal black hash was all the rage and as the article stated, someone stole the triple beam scale at our high school (no doubt dealers).

In my opinion, the Ford brothers were just another family growing up in Ontario. They each had their own personalities and no doubt differences in the family, just like many people had. Aside from dealing drugs, which was illegal at the time, at least they were not cannibalistic murderers.

I know that people have a serious hate on for him and it is hard for them to get past that hate.

Looking at him now, he appears to be normal and has a good looking family of girls. His immediate kids seem normal and I have not heard of any drama/bull shit about his wife or kids. If he was a fucked up person, chances are his own kids would follow suit. That does not seem to be the case.
 

Boober69

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Feb 23, 2012
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Beaver - Great post on the history of the Fords. With marijuana becoming legal in October our new premier certainly has the knowledge and experience of the drug trade to make better informed decisions on how to manage the provincial program. He also brings in some street cred (though it may now be outdated).

I will not dispute Ford's past as I experienced it in a different town. There were the local dealers and the game was pretty much the same, just different players. Afghanistan gold seal black hash was all the rage and as the article stated, someone stole the triple beam scale at our high school (no doubt dealers).

In my opinion, the Ford brothers were just another family growing up in Ontario. They each had their own personalities and no doubt differences in the family, just like many people had. Aside from dealing drugs, which was illegal at the time, at least they were not cannibalistic murderers.

I know that people have a serious hate on for him and it is hard for them to get past that hate.

Looking at him now, he appears to be normal and has a good looking family of girls. His immediate kids seem normal and I have not heard of any drama/bull shit about his wife or kids. If he was a fucked up person, chances are his own kids would follow suit. That does not seem to be the case.
Completely agree.

And it's kind of desperate to go back 30+ years to when someone was a teenager (born 1964) and not charged with any crimes.
Then there's the predictable Left crying about "how can you trust someone who would do that..." which is where the desperation comes from.

The sex-ed curriculum thrust upon the province by the Liberals never went through proper consultations with parents and experts (similar to the Autism funding debacle).
It's time it did.
Ford promised, and he's delivering.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Looking at him now, he appears to be normal and has a good looking family of girls. His immediate kids seem normal and I have not heard of any drama/bull shit about his wife or kids. If he was a fucked up person, chances are his own kids would follow suit. That does not seem to be the case.
According to the charges laid by Renata Ford, Doug screwed the family company to the ground, cheated here out of her inheritance and ran into politics because he killed the family business.
But nothing much other then that.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
60,015
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Don't let the fear of a Ford government create a sense of paranoia in your thinking. Kids will not be brainwashed into thinking homosexuality is evil.
The problem is that for a long time, kids were taught that it was true. Now we have (had) a curriculum where they try and show them otherwise. Social change takes a long time but it makes sense to at least recognize that things aren't they way people pretended it was in the 1950's.

And yes, kids will form their own opinions (and judging by the teacher's stories, many of them will be very warped) but it would be nice to have someone in authority to add options the views of the many parents who are not open-minded.
 

Ref

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According to the charges laid by Renata Ford, Doug screwed the family company to the ground, cheated here out of her inheritance and ran into politics because he killed the family business.
But nothing much other then that.
So let me get this right Frankfooter, you have hundreds of posts stating that you cannot trust a drunk and junkie like Rob Ford and now you are stating that you can trust a drunk and junkie like Renata Ford?
 

Ref

Committee Member
Oct 29, 2002
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The problem is that for a long time, kids were taught that it was true. Now we have (had) a curriculum where they try and show them otherwise. Social change takes a long time but it makes sense to at least recognize that things aren't they way people pretended it was in the 1950's.

And yes, kids will form their own opinions (and judging by the teacher's stories, many of them will be very warped) but it would be nice to have someone in authority to add options the views of the many parents who are not open-minded.
In this day and age do you really think that any anti-homosexual group has enough power to sway the majority of kids over to their agenda? If so, then you are living in the past. The majority of kids of today view homosexuality as normal. Kids who are homophobic are in the minority and are generally uneducated followers. In life there are the extremes on both sides of the equation and there always will be.

There are some things my parents took a firm stance on that I did not believe in and guess what? I respected their opinion but formed my own opinion. Can you not remember when you were young and had to make those same decisions? The generational gap exists and I find it strange that many people on this forum, who have very firm positions, seem to forget about the generation gap.

Remember that the people you may have no faith in today will be making the decisions that will impact your life when you are a forgotten old man.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
27,585
5,740
113
Beaver - Great post on the history of the Fords. With marijuana becoming legal in October our new premier certainly has the knowledge and experience of the drug trade to make better informed decisions on how to manage the provincial program. He also brings in some street cred (though it may now be outdated).

I will not dispute Ford's past as I experienced it in a different town. There were the local dealers and the game was pretty much the same, just different players. Afghanistan gold seal black hash was all the rage and as the article stated, someone stole the triple beam scale at our high school (no doubt dealers).

In my opinion, the Ford brothers were just another family growing up in Ontario. They each had their own personalities and no doubt differences in the family, just like many people had. Aside from dealing drugs, which was illegal at the time, at least they were not cannibalistic murderers.

I know that people have a serious hate on for him and it is hard for them to get past that hate.

Looking at him now, he appears to be normal and has a good looking family of girls. His immediate kids seem normal and I have not heard of any drama/bull shit about his wife or kids. If he was a fucked up person, chances are his own kids would follow suit. That does not seem to be the case.
This sex-ed curriculum was supposed to embrace all different genders and same sex marriage. Ontario public schools will revert for now to the 1998 curriculum, a 42-page document that refers to the Internet as the “World Wide Web,” conjuring an era when social media and cyber-bullying were unknown to most parents. Going back in time has drawn concern from educators. Many consider it a disservice to students, and some are saying they will continue teaching the 2015 curriculum.

Sam Hammond, the president of the Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario (ETFO), said in a statement that teachers can use their “professional judgement” when delivering the 1998 curriculum and “what things they may explore with students above and beyond” the old document. “ETFO will need to review the situation as to how teachers can deliver the old curriculum while still protecting the safety of students,” he said.

Obviously Ford does not have a clue as to the modern times and how children have been evolving through the sex education. He is stuck in the previous century, while teasing as well as bullying of kids that are "transgender" and "gay" are on the decline. Now we could see that change once again.

Ford only has the knowledge and experience of "illegal" marijuana. There are certain QA standards that the marijuana has to meet before going on to the market. Well his family has a certain history that to me is worrying considering that they were addicted to drugs, and associated with mobs and even the extreme right wing racists. Not calling him personally as a racist but there are certain stances that he is taking that explains his political motives.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
82,039
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So let me get this right Frankfooter, you have hundreds of posts stating that you cannot trust a drunk and junkie like Rob Ford and now you are stating that you can trust a drunk and junkie like Renata Ford?
I said according to the charges.
I'm sure we won't know for sure until the court case, unless Doug settles out of court.
 
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