Is Toronto really a safe city?

[jackal2006]

I keep reading the news and all you hear now is that person A got car jacked or knifed or killed by a gun.

I am trying to have faith in humanity in this city but it is getting harder and I keep wondering oh great all this violence will make people even more closed off here than they already are.

I think this city is becoming like a US city without all the good things that come with the bad things of a US city (large job markets, great restaurants, higher salaries). It seems the only thing Canada or Toronto has going for it is the "free healthcare" which for anyone like me that has had to deal with that with a loved one it is really hit or miss. It is at times mediocre and at times fantastic. But apart from the free healthcare we are slowly worst off than the USA. At least some USA cities have better weather than here and you can actually talk to strangers.

My feelings is that people are over stressed and angry in Toronto. The wages don't go up and everything is more expensive. People work really hard here and some can't get ahead even with degrees. So this makes the place less friendly and open not to say Toronto was ever friendly it's polite not friendly.

Are you scared how bad it could be in ten years here ? If I have to die in Canada I might have to move to Guelph or something not to get shot or my loved ones.

 

[wazup]

What are the chances of any of this happening to You, under 1 % I would guess. Are you really concerned about those percentages? How much of this is random and not targeted? The chance of a random attack in Tronna is .0005% imo.

 

[Frankfooter]

More of this violence is moving downtown, but Toronto is still a statistically very safe city.

 

[Samantha Jones]

I was talking with one of my guests about this today. Want to end gun/gang violence? Make school free.

 

[HEYHEY]

I was talking with one of my guests about this today. Want to end gun/gang violence? Make school free.

I don't think it's the lack of available education. The people responsible for these shootings would go to school if you paid them.

They decided that selling drugs and living the thug life is more glamorous.

 

[superstar_88]

What are the chances of any of this happening to You, under 1 % I would guess. Are you really concerned about those percentages? How much of this is random and not targeted? The chance of a random attack in Tronna is .0005% imo.

1% would be quite high. That's 1 in a 100. Better to stay home.

 

[wilbur]

When you talk about the future, judgements about it being safe or not are meaningless.

Safe means that there is no possibility of anythnig bad happening, period. You can say that about the past if it's true, but not the future. A declaration by an official doesn't make it true.

For the future, the issue is whether the risk is acceptable. If you step outside and go for a walk and figure that the risk of randomly getting shot is one in a hundred, that's unacceptable. But if you think that the risk of getting shot is one in 10 million, then that may be acceptable.

There comes a time when the money that is spent mitigating risk (extra police, advertising campaigns, public safety awareness etc) has very little effect on the hazard you wish to reduce. Spending a million dollars on extra cops might result in a dramatic improvement if you reduce your risk from 1 in a hundred to 1 in a million, but spending another million is not going to result in a further dramatic improvement in risk, and that improvement may be unnoticeable to those not involved in statistics.

Bottom line is that, if you're not looking for trouble in Toronto, and you don't go around walking in unlit alleys at night, your risk of getting shot is probably a lot less than being a passenger in an airplane involved in a crash, which is in itself extrememely low.

 

[managee]

I was talking with one of my guests about this today. Want to end gun/gang violence? Make school free.

Although I like your thinking, I’m not sure it’s enough. Creating better programming in our schools and communities to guide kids away from this path is a first step. There are lots of reasons people join gangs. Not being able to afford tuition or not wanting to accumulate debt I can’t imagine is the single greatest push factor. Short of forcing by law that all Ontario students graduate, programming that fits their needs would go a long way.

Whether education is free, or you get a bill for it later (OSAP), it’s a good investment in your own future. If our students can’t balance demands of school with financial demands of a family that relies on you to support them, maybe we need more exhaustive support for our most vulnerable.

But the root of gang violence in this country tends to be drugs. Creating better laws, policing or rehabilitation programming will undoubtedly make an impact, initially causing more violence as turfs need to expand to continue sustainability, but would very likely push the majority of bangers out of the game, and reduce future demand for recruits.

I’ve lived in a lot of violent cities. Toronto is close to the bottom of my list of places if I was ranking high to low danger levels for an average citizen.

 

[managee]

When you talk about the future, judgements about it being safe or not are meaningless.

Safe means that there is no possibility of anythnig bad happening, period. You can say that about the past if it's true, but not the future. A declaration by an official doesn't make it true.

For the future, the issue is whether the risk is acceptable. If you step outside and go for a walk and figure that the risk of randomly getting shot is one in a hundred, that's unacceptable. But if you think that the risk of getting shot is one in 10 million, then that may be acceptable.

There comes a time when the money that is spent mitigating risk (extra police, advertising campaigns, public safety awareness etc) has very little effect on the hazard you wish to reduce. Spending a million dollars on extra cops might result in a dramatic improvement if you reduce your risk from 1 in a hundred to 1 in a million, but spending another million is not going to result in a further dramatic improvement in risk, and that improvement may be unnoticeable to those not involved in statistics.

Bottom line is that, if you're not looking for trouble in Toronto, and you don't go around walking in unlit alleys at night, your risk of getting shot is probably a lot less than being a passenger in an airplane involved in a crash, which is in itself extrememely low.

I agree. There are some places in Toronto I wouldn’t want to be flashing expensive and easy to sell shit, or drunkenly and obliviously taking cash out, but it doesn’t stop me from going out to the places and parts of town I frequent.

The risk you take driving your car or taking an Uber or whatever and getting injured on the road are dramatically higher than being a victim of gang violence here. Just as going to London, New York, Vegas, Paris or Toronto and being a victim of terrorism or a mass murderer.

It seems like it would be hypocritical for me to sit drinking alcohol and being unconcerned about the health effects of that, or eating shitty processed food, or not getting enough exercise (etc.), but being genuinely concerned by the chances of being hit by a stray bullet.

The media LOVES a good murder story, especially one that is part of a series of events that in the moment, suggests a trend (see The Summer of the Gun for details). There’s more violence in the summer here, but because there’s typically less going on nationally and globally to report on, it becomes the top news story. If they can turn it into a saga that forces you tune in daily, they’re still getting paid.

 

[Boober69]

I think the root cause starts at home. Mainly fatherless kids with no good role models to guide them. They don't get the support they need at home and find a sense of belonging with gangs.
Before a kid dreams of getting rich selling drugs, they want to feel like they are respected, valued and surrounded by people who have their back.
If they are not getting that at home, they find it elsewhere. The drugs, guns, etc, come afterwards.

There are not many gang members that grew up in a loving home.

 

[malata]

compared to Cleveland, YES

 

[Jubee]

I think the root cause starts at home. Mainly fatherless kids with no good role models to guide them. They don't get the support they need at home and find a sense of belonging with gangs.
Before a kid dreams of getting rich selling drugs, they want to feel like they are respected, valued and surrounded by people who have their back.
If they are not getting that at home, they find it elsewhere. The drugs, guns, etc, come afterwards.

There are not many gang members that grew up in a loving home.

This. ^

 

[james t kirk]

I was talking with one of my guests about this today. Want to end gun/gang violence? Make school free.

School up to grade 12 is already free.

I bet half of these thugs (Maybe more) don't even have grade 12. Plus I don't think too many of these criminals are the school type. School requires work and dedication and they just aren't the types.

And as far as higher education goes, there are already programs to allow the under privileged to attend higher education for free or substantially reduced costs.

The gang culture we are seeing today is the direct result of broken homes, social welfare (as opposed to a work ethic), and the romancing of gangsta culture in the media (I didn't used to believe this , but I've changed my mind now.)

Good luck fixing it with hug a thug programs.

 

[frankcastle]

I don't think it's the lack of available education. The people responsible for these shootings would go to school if you paid them.

They decided that selling drugs and living the thug life is more glamorous.

Disagree. It was what they believed was their best option

 

[frankcastle]

School up to grade 12 is already free.

I bet half of these thugs (Maybe more) don't even have grade 12. Plus I don't think too many of these criminals are the school type. School requires work and dedication and they just aren't the types.

And as far as higher education goes, there are already programs to allow the under privileged to attend higher education for free or substantially reduced costs.

The gang culture we are seeing today is the direct result of broken homes, social welfare (as opposed to a work ethic), and the romancing of gangsta culture in the media (I didn't used to believe this , but I've changed my mind now.)

Good luck fixing it with hug a thug programs.

To be successful in school you need support from home. Typically these are not kids who had a person to do homework with them at the kitchen table.

Plus lack of proper role models. These kids were not raised by the huxtables. And thr only people around them with serious cash are thugs.

It is not wnough to say high school is free. Because a lot still has to happen for people to take advantsge of it.

60 plus per cent of people in canadian prisons cant read at a high school level. 70 plus per cent were drop outs.

In other words a lot has gone wrong before the child is even capable of making their own decision. Theres not a lot of supoort if you cant read. Reading recovery only targets a small number of kids. The rest better get tutors or help elsewhere.

You want to help these kids?

Pay their parents for good attendance and fine the parents for poor attendance.

Allow principals to suspend kids without it being a racial bias.

Get more support workers. At a certain point the teacher has to decide how to divide their time amongst 20 to 30 some odd kids.

 

[Born2Star]

Toronto is the 4th biggest city in North America. Based on this we are relatively VERY safe. Take a look at Chicago.

 

[HEYHEY]

Disagree. It was what they believed was their best option

No it's an easier option. Going to school and working a full time isn't easy. Selling drugs is.much easier. These people know what the choices are and they decide to be thugs. I have witnessed it myself growing up and the cycle repeats itself over and over again.
The term "work is for suckers" has been used plenty of times when having a discussion with these productive members of society.

 

[Zipperpants]

Yes

Minus the van attack I believe we are the same as last year

 

[3wire]

People are very poor at assessing risk. I would get concerned when the professionals get involved. Like, say, if your insurance agent says you need a rider to go into a certain neighbourhood, or engage in a particular activity. Like skydiving or drug sales. The fact is that the vast majority of people who are murdered know the perpetrator. You are more likely to be killed by a spouse than anybody else. Better hope your wife never finds out you are on this board....

 

[K Douglas]

In my experience Toronto is a relatively safe city and the statistics back that up. Here are the top 10 most violent cities in the United States (based on 2016 statistics)

Violent crimes per 100,000

1. Detroit 2,047
2. St Louis 1,913
3. Memphis 1,820
4. Baltimore 1,780
5. Rockford,IL 1,659
6. Kansas City 1,6321
7. Cleveland 1,631
8. Milwaukee 1,533
9. Little Rock 1,531
10. Oakland 1,421

I can't find a similar number for Toronto except from 2012 which was at 907 violent crimes per 100,000. However, our definition of violent crime is more broad than the FBI's as we include criminal harassment and uttering death threats. I do know that violent crime in Toronto has been rising steadily since 2014 according to the Toronto Police website. It should be noted that the 907 number would put us in the same range as the likes of Houston and Las Vegas.