Subways subways subways!

[oldjones]

Too bad there are probably a half a million to a million people per day who travel in and out of the map who do not live there
Again you really do not understand what you preach about

And if they all came in from the same locality it would make sense to build them a subway But they dont.

They chose to move out and spread out, and not having the population high-density that justifies mass transit and makes it economical was one of the things they settled out there to enjoy. They don't get to have it both ways.

No matter what the few thousand a day who might use a Scarburrow might tell the 90% of Scarborough folks who won't be able to, it will be a subway for the privileged few, paid for by the many

We have better things to spend out taxes on. Fixing a few roads for the other 90%, for one.

 

[SirWanker]

3)have you read the city planner’s recommendation as to why a single stop is the best option for that stretch...or is your opinion based on your perpetual emotional hard-on for the Fords?

Not sure which report you're referring to but the original LRT would have been more accessible ( i.e. more stops) and with no additional taxes to pay.

 

[SirWanker]

1. I doubt that (initially) suburban routes would have stations spaced the same as they are downtown.

Then what should be the appropriate spacing? One can't add a new station to an existing line after it has been built.

4. Go Trains currently serve the downtown area well, and the business areas that have developed north of the core very poorly. If you want to deal with congestion issues across the ENTIRE GTA, it's time to look at transit that serves somewhere other than the core.

Increase the frequency of GO service as needed would be a better use of funds.

For all the subway advocates, how will the operating costs be shared amongst the cities? Ford indicated that he will provide capital funds and leave the operating costs up to the city.

 

[Jicama]

The Spadina - Vaughan extension proves Boober69 right. I paid more in property taxes to see the project through, we even lobbied for it to be extended to Vaughan Mills, and the result has been worth it. Whatever I paid, I'm getting back in ease of travel to downtown and gas savings.

...$ billion per stop is pure hyperbole, stop.

How so? If you've actually used the Vaughan extension, you would know it's been plagued by downstream delays because there are no alternate transit options. Stoppages between Sheppard West & Eglinton West or downtown routinely cause ripples that delay trains starting at Vaughan by 15-30 mins. Bloor & St. George stations are overwhelmed by the transfer volumes.

The Vaughan extension was $3.2 billion for 6 stops over 8.6 km ($530 million/stop or $370 million/km).
The 1-stop, 6.2 km Scarborough extension has an estimated cost of $3.4 billion ($550 million/km), whereas the original 3-stop, 7.6 km proposal was estimated at $4.6 billion ($1.5 billion/stop or $600 million/km). Either of those options were well over $1 billion per stop.

 

[Jicama]

Your view is too short-sighted.
The Sheppard line was built to foster the development along Sheppard. Look at how many buildings have gone up along that line with more and more being built. The only thing missing is to close the loop at STC so itÂ’s not a dead end. It would also provide relief to the Bloor/Danforth line.

The Sheppard line was completed almost 16 years ago. In 2007, weekday ridership was 45,860 per day. In 2015, weekday ridership was 49,070 per day - less than a 1% increase year-over-year. If you've ridden it, you would know how empty it is even during the morning rush hour. Does that mean it was a bad investment? Well, not necessarily.
Spending $6 billion on subways can be a good thing if everyone agrees to the additional taxes needed to fund it.
Spending $6 billion on subways is a terrible thing if it leaves no money for anything else.

 

[JohnLarue]

FAIL.

A reasonable answer would be:
70 people per hectare for LRT
115 per hectare for subways.

https://www.pembina.org/reports/making-tracks-toronto.pdf

Build a subway in an area with lower population density then that and they will still drive, as it would take too long just to get to the subway.
I guess this is just yet another subject in which you are woefully clueless.

Says the village idiot
Given Toronto is the worst commuter city in North America, I would say any population density greater than 2/3 of what ever Toronto's population density is now
Does your stupidity come naturally or do you work on it?

 

[Frankfooter]

Says the village idiot
Given Toronto is the worst commuter city in North America, I would say any population density greater than 2/3 of what ever Toronto's population density is now
Does your stupidity come naturally or do you work on it?

Wow, larue, you really know how to make an argument.

Can you tell us how why you think replacing an existing, 120 kmhr GO train with a $9 billion, 40 km/hr subway will speed up your commute?
Feel free to use as many insults as you like in your argument, we know it passes for logic in your world.

Next can you tell us the difference between LRT's and subways?

And finally, in our 'larue insult fest', can you tell us why you think that you only need to check the density of an entire region instead of the area serviced by transit?

I do so want to hear your Ford-love, market style defence of these policies, and your ever so clever use of insults.

 

[anon1]

Self-driving car technology will make such capital-intensive transit projects redundant.

 

[basketcase]

Whatever the cost, it will be a bargain. We need subways.
And it will create a lot of jobs.

Will you (or Ford) accept the taxes needed to pay for it.


Yes we need more transit (a downtown relief line tops the list of needs) but won't happen unless people are willing to pay for it and Ford was explicitly elected on a campaign promising to save people money.

 

[basketcase]

...

What population density does a subway need to be viable in Ontario?...

Not the real question. The question is how much tax money the government is willing to spend.

I feel embarrassed for you. After all of your time you've spent whining about 'respecting' taxpayers money you decide to totally abandon fiscal responsibility just because Ford announced it.

And yes, I support spending on needed things and paying the taxes needed.

 

[Boober69]

Yet that Sheppard line is the least used portion.

...because it's not complete. It needs to connect to Scarborough Town Centre to provide a loop. This will give people options and increase usage.

 

[Boober69]

Will you (or Ford) accept the taxes needed to pay for it.


Yes we need more transit (a downtown relief line tops the list of needs) but won't happen unless people are willing to pay for it and Ford was explicitly elected on a campaign promising to save people money.

Saving people money can also mean finding the money elsewhere. Let's start with trimming government fat shall we?
The money is there...it just needs to be managed and allocated better.

 

[Boober69]

You're totally right, why not spend $8 billion to replace an existing GO train with a subway that's only 1/3 the speed!
Who cares about speed, its all about Subways Subways Subways!.

(sarcasm off)

No that your sarcasm switch is off...can you answer the question? Or is this the part where you deflect to something else?

 

[Frankfooter]

No that your sarcasm switch is off...can you answer the question? Or is this the part where you deflect to something else?

What question?
Why spend billions on a slower replacement for existing transit?

 

[Boober69]

Not the real question. The question is how much tax money the government is willing to spend.

I feel embarrassed for you. After all of your time you've spent whining about 'respecting' taxpayers money you decide to totally abandon fiscal responsibility just because Ford announced it.

And yes, I support spending on needed things and paying the taxes needed.

'nuff said...

 

[Polaris]

'nuff said...

world class city, right there !

:whoo:

 

[Boober69]

What question?
Why spend billions on a slower replacement for existing transit?

What does speed have to do with it if you can cross the city right now from Kennedy to Kipling in 45 minutes@40km/hour on the subway?

 

[james t kirk]

What does speed have to do with it if you can cross the city right now from Kennedy to Kipling in 45 minutes@40km/hour on the subway?

Cause Ford was musing about building subways from Pickering to connect with the Bloor line and currently GO Transit can get you from Pickering to Union station fairly efficiently at 120 km / hr in 40 minutes. If one was to extend the Bloor line to Pickering, the same trip via subway would take 120 minutes, give or take.

That's why.

There is never going to be subway built to pickering or markham in any of our lifetimes. Let's be realistic. Ford by even thinking about such a thing shows that he's not grounded in reality.

If Ford wants to do something for transit, he could set up the system so if you pay to get on the GO Train you can transfer to the TTC as part of your fare or vice versa.

 

[Frankfooter]

What does speed have to do with it if you can cross the city right now from Kennedy to Kipling in 45 minutes@40km/hour on the subway?

Its Ford economics.
Spend billions to replace an existing system with something slower.
If speed has nothing to do with it, why not replace them with slower buses that are way cheaper then either?

 

[james t kirk]

I'm all for building subways in Toronto.

I would build a line along Queen from Sherway to Victoria Park where I'd join up to the Bloor line.

I'd also convert the union Pearson Express to at grade subway and build stations at Queen, King, Spadina, and then run up the abandoned Don branch of the Belleville subdivision ( which Metrolinx owns) with additional stations at Gerard, Dundas, Prince Edward viaduct, and Leaside.

I do not support building subways to outlying cities that are better served by GO Trains