Strange thing is Ford has promised more spending this campaign than the NDP have and has also promised significant cuts to taxes, hydro rates and gas prices. Pretty fucked that he's making the NDP look like the fiscally responsible ones.
Forum Ontario Poll: 47% NDP, 33% PC, 14% Liberals
- Thread starter omegaphallic
- Start date
Even now its come out that the Wynne government would have fully funded a Scarborough LRT, but instead we are stuck with the Ford brothers $3 billion subway stop that will serve fewer residents.
The Fords waste money to pander votes.
Once again Frankfarter keeps repeating the same B.S. Apparently only the Ford brothers voted on this.
Did you actually ever read the City Planner's business case that compared all options and determined that an express subway from Kennedy to STC was the best option for a variety of reasons?
Jeezuz.
Did you read about how that report was fudged to hide the fact that it wasn't the best option?
I am concerned that Ford has not released a platform/budget yet. His promise of cuts is encouraging to taxpayers, however without some sort of a financial plan, he is making it difficult for the voters to decide.
When the common enemy was the Liberals I got the feeling that Ford was playing on that fact and really had no intention to release a budget. Which to many voters was fine because no budget seemed to be better than the blatant lies we have heard from the Liberals the last 15 years. Now that the Liberal party is doomed the emphasis has shifted to the NDP and Ford has been left flat footed.
The debt is going to fuck the taxpayer, but it will not be our generation that will feel the pain, especially the pain that has been caused by the Liberals over the last 15 years. That albatross will be downloaded to our children and grandchildren. I find it ironic that people refer to the millennial's as the "me generation" when in fact the voting behaviors of the baby boomer and gen Xer's is completely based on "me" as we have fucked their future. The NDP and Ford seem to be on the path to continue those behaviors.
In my experience, budgets and deficits do not fix themselves. It takes will power, tough decision making and a sense of responsibility to reverse the poor decisions of the past few decades and this crop of candidates are not prepared to make those sacrifices.
Liberal, NDP, PC, it does not matter as they all read from the same hymn book with slightly different verses.
Hopefully the Gen z's or beyond will have a sense of accountability can reverse the trend that will once again allow people to take control of their lives and live with less government.
Less government is more power to the taxpayer.
The PCs seem to have a unique ability to shoot themselves in the foot.
This was a very winnable election.
They had a leader with a middle-of-the-road, centre-right platform that would appeal to a great number of Ontarians sick of mismanagement and scandal over years of Liberal rule.
It should have been a slam dunk.
But, nah.. fuck that. They instead throw their leader under the bus, declaring him "unelectable" because of a fake-news "scandal".
THEN, they reload, take aim squarely at their foot and shoot again, by choosing Doug Ford as their leader.
Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?!
If the NDP forms the next government, the PCs will have no one to blame but themselves.
This was a very winnable election.
They had a leader with a middle-of-the-road, centre-right platform that would appeal to a great number of Ontarians sick of mismanagement and scandal over years of Liberal rule.
It should have been a slam dunk.
But, nah.. fuck that. They instead throw their leader under the bus, declaring him "unelectable" because of a fake-news "scandal".
THEN, they reload, take aim squarely at their foot and shoot again, by choosing Doug Ford as their leader.
Who the fuck thought that was a good idea?!
If the NDP forms the next government, the PCs will have no one to blame but themselves.
Lets have a closer look at this. When Bob Rae got elected, he had to deal with Peterson's Sun King spending. Not only that, Peterson sold off the future 407 to his and Mulroney's buddies. He did it to offset construction costs, I was taken by complete surprise when Harris activated the clause. The 1988 Federal election was the most vicious that I can remember. Mulroney's separatist allies went on full attack mode, there was a cartoon from a Montreal paper depicting English Canada as Klansmen buring a Fleur de Lis cross. Eventually Elijah Harper wouldn't give them what Mulroney promised. Primacy within Canada (Meech Lake) and the right to opt out of the country at any time. Mulroney was pissed! Not only did Rae defeat his good buddy, he was also against Meech Lake. So Mulroney did everything he could to destroy Ontario's economy, the 1991 - 95 Mild Depression was the worst in Ontario's history. Rae did what he had to do, can't fault him for that.
I doubt Justin will attempted to sabotage a Horwath government, should it happen. Especially after Ford went full Trump and showed him complete disdain.
Let's have a closer look look at what you just wrote!! What a bizarre analysis ...
What a load of crap!! About Muloroney did everything he could to destroy Ontario economy! As a revenge of failed Meech lake accord! Typical leftie trying to spin failed Meech Lake accord as a Mulroney's revenge on Ontario economy !!
The first prominent opposition, as reported by the media, was from former Prime Minister Pierrre Trudeau, who had led the effort for drafting and approval of the 1982 constitution. In an open letter published in both the Toronto Star and Le Devoir on May 26, 1987, Trudeau attacked the Accord as a capitulation to provincialism and the end of any dream of "One Canada". Portraying "patriation" as the equalization of the bargaining power of Federal and provincial governments that would allow Canada to survive indefinitely, Trudeau wrote that the new agreement made further devolution of powers inevitable. He referred to Mulroney as a "weakling," the Premiers as "snivelers," and invoked Bourassa's previous reneging of the Victoria Charter as suggesting that the Accord would be the beginning of concessions to Quebec and provincial interests.[12]
Trudeau's well-known position as an ardent Federalist and a prominent Québécois helped express the opposition to the Accord for many of its opponents. He generated concerns with the Accord in other groups that had embraced the Charter, such as First Nations ethnic communities and women.[13] His position created turmoil in the Federal and provincial Liberal parties, with the federal party split largely on linguistic lines, shaking John Turner's already fragile leadership.
As the final agreement was to be drawn up in Ottawa on June 2, 1987, Trudeau's intervention had made him, in the words of Mulroney advisor L. Ian Macdonald, a "twelfth participant".[15] The meeting, seen as a formality to precede a signing ceremony the next day, instead lasted 19 hours.
Manitoba NDP Premier Howard Pawley, faced with left-wing opposition to the consensus in his home province, insisted on more limited language regarding Federal spending power in the final agreement.[17] Ontario Premier David Peterson, as the sole Liberal at the table, did not have support for it by most of his caucus (including his main adviser, Ian Scott). They opposed the consensus, and proposed a variety of amendments to the federal spending power and the distinct society clauses.[14] Pawley and Peterson agreed to follow each other's lead or back out together, to avoid either being seen as the cause of the collapse of talk.[18] They asked Mulroney to take a harder line on Federal powers.[10]
Trudeau's intervention had also created a separate backlash: Mulroney and the other eight Premiers, insulted by what they saw as undue interference, aggressively embraced the previous consensus.
Opponents of the Accord took issue with both the process and ultimate results of the negotiations. Process objections focused on the agreement being negotiated in circumstances considered to be opaque and undemocratic: the amendments were effectively drafted and agreed to by the eleven Premiers themselves in two meetings and were presented to their legislatures as a fait accompli. Some academics described the Accord as resulting from an exercise in "elite accommodation" not compatible with a more democratic Canada.[26] Aside from Quebec, no province held public hearings on the Accord until opposition began to sprout.
Some critics said that "distinct society" focus unbalanced the Federation, creating a "special status" for Quebec that would lead to asymmetrical federalism and the possible decline of the English-speaking community in Quebec and Francophones elsewhere in Canada. Aboriginal, feminist, and minority groups worried that the clause could be interpreted by courts to allow the Quebec government to disregard sections of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and of other constitutional protections in the name of preserving the province's culture.
Aboriginal groups were opposed to the amendments that involved constitutional change, as they had not had any representation in negotiations.[27]
Former Prime Minister Trudeau and similar critics argued that the further devolution of powers was unnecessary and did not result in any "trade-off" with the Federal government. Rather, the Accord reduced its ability to speak for all Canadians on matters of national interest.
Western and Atlantic Canada particularly objected to the lack of more substantive reforms in how the Senate membership was chosen, especially as the Accord required further Senate reform to be subject to unanimous approval by the provinces.
On the other hand, activists seeking sovereignty for Quebec were also unhappy; they generally opposed the agreement, believing that "recognition of Quebec as a distinct society" would be only moderately useful. They thought acceptance of the agreement would forestall devolution of further powers.
Don't forget what Rae's mistakes did to Ontario
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...t-raes-mistakes-did-to-ontario/article731811/
Bob Rae says he might have been too ambitious as the NDP premier of Ontario in the early 1990s, might have tried to do too much. He says again that he might have made mistakes. ("There are always things that you could improve on," he told columnist John Ibbitson in Saturday's Globe and Mail. "But don't beat yourself up over it.") Real regrets? Yes, he has a few -- too few to mention.
Were Mr. Rae far removed from high public office, he could be forgiven his delusions. As a candidate for the leadership of the Liberal Party, he can't.
He still doesn't get it. The question isn't whether Mr. Rae made mistakes. Of course he did. And the question isn't what his mistakes have done to him. It's what they did to others. The question is whether he has ever understood the harm he caused, and wept. The question is whether he has ever felt either contrite or penitent.
Mr. Rae took a shallow, two-quarter recession and turned it into an ugly, four-year Ontario recession that devastated thousands of lives. Lost jobs. Lost homes. Lost savings. Lost businesses. In the end, Mr. Rae's recession invited comparisons to the Great Depression. The number of people still working in the province at the end of 1994, for example, was less than the number working at the beginning of 1990 -- the only five-year period that this had happened since the 1930s. (Mr. Rae assumed office in October, 1990; he left in June, 1995.)
Although he gave bailouts to a few big companies, he ravaged small business, the province's most important source of new jobs. In the five years from 1985 through 1989, before Mr. Rae, 790,000 of the province's 900,000 net new jobs were in companies with fewer than 100 people. Even in the recession of 1981-84, when big companies dropped 130,000 workers, the number of people employed by small firms in Ontario grew by 193,000. During Mr. Rae's term, 100,000 people who worked for small businesses lost their jobs. When Mr. Rae shut down Ontario's energetic small businesses, the province idled.
"the recession," attributing Ontario's decline to recession in the United States. Yet no other jurisdiction experienced anything approaching the destruction that Ontario endured. U.S. gross domestic product, by the way, expanded 1.9 per cent in 1990. Not a boom year but definitely not a bust year, either. In 1991, Mr. Rae's first full year in office, U.S. GDP fell -- all of 0.2 per cent. In 1992, Mr. Rae's second full year, U.S. GDP grew 3.3 per cent.
You can't blame two slightly negative quarters in the United States for Mr. Rae's four years of deeply negative recession in Ontario -- for the record-high unemployment in 1992 and 1993, for the record-high budgets deficits for 1992, 1993, 1994 and 1995, for the record-high provincial debt, for the two downgrades in Ontario's credit rating (in 1991 and 1993). And you can't blame the rest of Canada, either.
You can isolate Ontario's performance with a "jobs index" that compares the Rae record with the U.S. record and the rest of Canada record. Give a base value of 100 to each of the three jurisdictions in 1989, the year before Mr. Rae took office. A 1-per-cent increase in jobs in 1990, in any jurisdiction, will produce a reading of 101; a 1-per-cent decrease will produce a reading of 99.
Here are the numbers for the first three Rae years. For 1990, U.S., 101; rest of Canada, 101; Ontario, 99.5. For 1991: U.S., 100; rest of Canada, 100; Ontario, 96. For 1992, U.S., 101; rest of Canada, 100; Ontario, 95.5. It didn't get any better. What do these numbers mean? If Ontario had grown at the same rate as the rest of Canada, and the United States, another quarter million people would have had jobs.
As bizarre as it now appears, Mr. Rae raised taxes in the midst of his own recession -- making it all much worse. With some help from his predecessor, Liberal premier David Peterson, Ontario raised personal income tax rates seven percentage points in six years. When Mr. Rae finished, Ontario had the highest marginal personal income tax rate (for incomes of $67,000 and higher) in North America.
Mr. Rae delivered good times for a privileged public sector. In 1990, the province had 850,000 public sector workers; in 1995, 950,000. Perhaps Mr. Rae assumed you can swap 100,000 jobs in small businesses for 100,000 jobs in the public sector -- and then pay them all higher salaries. You can't. As provincial revenue fell, Mr. Rae borrowed to pay the bills he himself had generated. Mr. Peterson borrowed $3-billion in 1990-91. Mr. Rae borrowed $10-billion in 1991-92; $12-billion in 1992-93; $11-billion in 1993-94; and $10-billion in 1994-95. Single-handedly, he tripled the province's debt.
Single-handedly, he held interest rates aloft -- indifferent to the Bank of Canada's efforts to control inflation, indifferent to the fact that a one-percentage-point drop in interest rates produces 25,000 jobs in Ontario.
We remember.
Ford will take the rural ridings, with the electoral map as it is their vote has more bearing than an urban vote.
Sir Charles Barkley was asked why he campaigned for Doug Jones, " I don't want my State to look like idiots to the rest of the country".
Sir Charles Barkley was asked why he campaigned for Doug Jones, " I don't want my State to look like idiots to the rest of the country".
Ontario look like an idiot ... Once a great provinces... now have a have not province.. Biggest debt of a non nation and a laughing stock of Canada. It use to be Newfoundland ( Newfie) have not province a laughing stock of Canada plus that also sometimes included
Quebec..but Quebec always have a special status because it French was founder of Canada. Now with Quebec ecomony somewhat improving with spending under control and have surplus plus better way credit rating then Ontario...look like Ontario is the laughing stock of Canada!! Free tuition, free child care, free pharmacare, free TTC for kid 12 year and under, free universal basic income for everyone who don't want to work, free dental care, everything is free!!
I wonder who going to pay for those free stuff!!
Ontario a sanctuary province free for all for people who come in as refugees even if they don't qualify.but due to red tape it will take about 7 year to kick out of Canada. Meanwhile they get fre ESL, free Medicare, free welfare, everything is free !!
It used to be when great province of Ontario sneeze rest of Canada catch a cold. Basically it mean if Ontario economy falters the rest of Canada economy suffer more painfully too It similar to the saying of when " USA sneeze Canada catches the cold or the flu too! Ontario is a joke of a province ...in 30 year will be like Greece.. Totally bankrupt when none will buy their Ontario bonds and when Ontario default on their debt / bonds due to high interest rate and fewer private sector jobs due to automation and noncompetitive
Environment of higher taxes, higher hydro, higher min wages, higher provincial taxes, higher fed taxes, higher cost of living, higher rent , higher public salaries, higher users fee, etc...
PS. I am ashamed to be an Ontarian!!
You don't like the truth about the past Ontario NDP government BOB RAE!!
Oh yeah... Your a socialist who love NDP ... Tax & spend & revenue tools & carbon taxes & cap & trade!! Addicted to spending and addictive to gauging taxpayers!!
What was that, 30 years ago?
Stop living in the past and if you really are that upset about taxes in Ontario (which aren't that much different then the rest of Canada) then you should move to the US and live under Trump and his no taxes for the rich and climate change denial policies.
Bottom line tax and spend and tax and spend and tax and spend !!! who the fuck is going to pay for All this!! This type of mentally destroyed countries look at Greece, look at Venezuela, Puerto Rico , Argentina, Not able to service their debt!! USA will go the same way if they also fucking just spend & spend & start wars ... When those debt come due ... People will suffer!!
Stop fucking expected everything is free!! Rest of Canada have a lower cost of living as compared to Ontario. It what you have left after paid check when you deduct your taxes, cost of living, cap & trade, cArbon taxes, user fee, housing , rents, property taxes, hydro, water taxes, etc!!
PS There is no such things as Man made climate change (AGW). Rebranded from global warming .. climate have been constantly changing billions / or millions year ago and will be continuously changing! It all about new way of getting taxes... Known as revenues tools known as cap & trade!!
Trump is going to create a bigger deficit then Obama ever did. Harper created the biggest deficits in Canada ever.
Ford stuck Toronto with a 30 year tax for one subway stop that could have been fully paid for by the province.
Get through your thick head ...unlimited spending and unlimited taxing not under control will hurt all of Ontarian!! WHen they go bankrupt they will come after your Tax free saving account ... By changing the laws! Example the first $10,000 withdraw from tax free saving account will still be tax free but if you take more out it will be taxed!! Right now the tax free saving account are too low to go after wait until it get big!
They will changed the retirement age from 65 to 67 ! Regardless of what governments in power!! Right now tax free saving is low for everyone is below 100,000 wait until 10 year or 20 year when those tax free saving account are the 6 figures or 7 figures! They find a way to justify and taxes it!! To pay of the debt of the bond when it come to maturity!!
USA Is stupid right now ther own over 14 trillions dollar and when social security come due when all baby boomers retire and need social security/ old age pension .... They are all fucked!!! Regardless if they are democratic or republican...and usually the rich always win!
Wrong Frankie, the Sun Kings Mulroney and Peterson left a public debt that's yet to be matched. Standard and Poors downgraded Canada's credit score to AA in 1994. Paul Martin took the unprecedented step of expropriating the pension surplus of CPAC and CUPW to bring down the debt. Should Ford become Premiere he's going to be at war with the teachers, he hasn't advertised it, he intends to eliminate provincials contributions to the OTPF.
You seem really concerned about spending and the province’s finances. So-far, you’re supporting the only party leader that has announced $7-billion+ a year of new spending with absolutely no explanation of how he plans to pay it.
You keep reminding us about Rae and the problems he caused. We get it. You don’t like Rae, use a lot of !!!!!! and don’t proofread. That was 28 years ago. Still sad?
The NDP has vetted plans to return to balanced budgets within 2 years. I believe Wynn is promising the same.
But why aren’t you concerned that the party you’re supporting won’t explain how they will balance the budget? How he generates that balance may fuck up your life depending if you ever plan to use a hospital, get an education, drive on a road, call the fire department or EMS...
Also. The fact that you don’t understand climate change is telling. I can see why you’d vote Ford. His policies support that same ignorance.
