NFL to start fining teams when their players kneel for anthem

[toguy5252]

That has GOTTA be a slam dunk freedom of speech constitutional challenge to federal court anytime the players' union wants to make the league suck its dick!

I am not sure that it is. It may very well be looked at as an employment issue and the right of an employer to control conduct during in the workplace. Nothing is stopping the players from saying whatever they like outside of their employment. Not sure but that is my read based also on my assessment of the SCOTUS.

Apart from the legality it is really the owners bowing to the commercial interests ginned up by the PGOTUS. One owner has already stepped up and said he will pay fines. I hope more will follow.

 

[Charlemagne]

Trump Serves Fox News Viewers an Extra Dose of Fascism: Maybe NFL Anthem Protestors 'Shouldn’t Be in the Country’

https://www.alternet.org/trump-serves-fox-news-viewers-extra-dose-fascism-maybe-nfl-anthem-protestors-shouldnt-be-country

 

[jcpro]

Cold hard cash always wins in the end. The NFL viewers are the same crowd that put Trump in the White House. The crack down was only a matter of time. Can't build new stadiums, pay outrageous salaries without asses in the seats and the TV ratings. The owners simply made a right business decision.

 

[LT56]

As much as I support the players’ cause I also respect the league’s need to set some limits on political protests during work hours. If they allow this, what are they gonna do when some red neck Trump supporting player decides that he wants to drape a Confederate flag over his shoulder during the anthem?

During work hours I respect the employer’s right to not allow these protests. On their own time the players can do as they like.

All that being said...I still hope the players continue taking a knee during the anthem. It’s a mild form of civil disobedience and I support their cause...It also infuriates Trump Supporters so it’s all good!

 

[basketcase]

Youtube is filled with videos of fans burning their jerseys because of the kneeling. Its safe to say they lost a fair amount of supporters
...

Not showing in the actual data. Attendance has been constant and viewer-ship has had similar declines this year as the year before this was heard of. Instead of pissing off one group or another, maybe the NFL should be working on why ratings are down or how to better protect their talent.

p.s. One news story had the interesting fact that all but one stadium allow people to be selling/buying food and merchandise during the anthem. Will the NFL also fine all those employees who don't stand during the anthem?

p.p.s. I wonder what minuscule number of home viewers tune in for the anthem and stand for it (rather than going for a beer or a piss).

 

[basketcase]

Cold hard cash always wins in the end. The NFL viewers are the same crowd that put Trump in the White House. ....

Sorry but this argument is about as real as Trump's claims about his inauguration. Game attendance has been pretty constant and tv ratings were down a similar percentage in 2017 as they were in 2016 before Kapernik.

 

[wigglee]

Quite aside from whether I am a Trump "fan", I am unabashedly an NFL fan. As a long time season ticket holding fan, I don't want to see any protests as part of the event, even if the protest was "pro-Trump". I like my sports without a side of politics. I'm not American, so the "disrespect to the flag" is not what riled me up (although I understand why it could). What irritated me was the idea that I didn't pay (more and more each year) to see somebody grandstand their political views, particularly views I don't agree with. I paid to watch football. If the NFL wants to dress the game up in a wrapper of ceremony, I don't mind, as long the ceremony doesn't irritate me. It's bad enough that political correctness is endangering the existence of NFL cheerleaders (already gone from Buffalo). Don't wreck my entertainment with political idiocy!

And lastly, I expect the NFL to listen to people like me - people who are paying the bills - rather than a bunch of whiners who don't attend games and at most only pay attention to Super Bowl commercials and go to Super Bowl parties only to drink wine and eat canapes and couldn't even tell you the score at any time.

Maybe Kaepernick could start up an all protest league where people could dress up as football players, protest for 60 minutes, and only play football during the anthem? I suspect he wants to hang on to his NFL money enough not to try that!

Too late.... the right has already made football political. Whenever there is a war on, the military pageantry is stomach curdling. Go troops go! But if your political opinion is not in support of the status quo white establishment, and you happen to be black, you are shit out of rights. Get in line and shut up unless you are cheering for the killing of Iraqiis ( or whoever our" enemy" de jour is).

 

[wigglee]

The Players Association should be partners and be fully consulted on issues like this. The all white old boys owners club are treating their mostly black players like slaves. Perhaps the NFL's constitution is as flawed as the US Constitution which apparently allows an idiot like Trump to continue to destroy democracy .

 

[Frankfooter]

Trump Serves Fox News Viewers an Extra Dose of Fascism: Maybe NFL Anthem Protestors 'Shouldn’t Be in the Country’

https://www.alternet.org/trump-serves-fox-news-viewers-extra-dose-fascism-maybe-nfl-anthem-protestors-shouldnt-be-country

Trump is working hard to keep this one alive.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Not showing in the actual data. Attendance has been constant

False!

2017 was the first year in over a decade that NFL attendance was down 1/2 million.
See here: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/attendance.htm

Also, if you google '2017 empty NFL stadia' you get this: https://www.google.ca/search?q=2017...16DbAhXL34MKHfnjC6EQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=549

http://americanlookout.com/the-nfl-is-starting-to-panic-about-stadiums-full-of-empty-seats/

 

[essguy_]

The real damage from the kneeling protest came AFTER Trump started tweeting about it. Of course, Trump had his own axe to grind with the NFL (not to mention that the players were black) - but most of his dimwitted fans ignored the ulterior motives and just followed and joined the "outrage".

Trump's reaction to a few black NFL players was WAY stronger than his reaction to neo-Nazis marching in Charlottesville. Of course, his dimwitted base ignore this too (or they eat it up).

 

[james t kirk]

Can you cut and paste the entire article?

The link works.

If your screen goes to white because you've read too many Washington post articles without subscribing, delete your Internet history. Problem solved.

 

[Bud Plug]

The Players Association should be partners and be fully consulted on issues like this. The all white old boys owners club are treating their mostly black players like slaves. Perhaps the NFL's constitution is as flawed as the US Constitution which apparently allows an idiot like Trump to continue to destroy democracy .

No union truly wants to be "partners" with management. They don't want to assume any of the risks, put out any capital investments, and they don't want to join with management in cracking down on player violence, off field misconduct, or anything else that might negatively impact any of their members. Briefing the PA on policy changes is beneficial, because players who don't understand the rules will likely come to their union officials for answers. That saves management having to answer the same questions over and over. Beyond that, the PA are capable of picking up a phone if they think they have a great solution to this or any other issue. In practice, they don't.

 

[Bud Plug]

The real damage from the kneeling protest came AFTER Trump started tweeting about it. Of course, Trump had his own axe to grind with the NFL (not to mention that the players were black) - but most of his dimwitted fans ignored the ulterior motives and just followed and joined the "outrage".

Trump's reaction to a few black NFL players was WAY stronger than his reaction to neo-Nazis marching in Charlottesville. Of course, his dimwitted base ignore this too (or they eat it up).

You obviously don't go to games. Fans booed the kneeling loudly long before Trump had anything to say about it. They didn't boo any more loudly after he tweeted.
The fan message boards were full of negative comments about the kneeling. You should know that Trump is rarely a leader on such issues. Just like the birth certificate movement he jumped on years after it was set in motion by Democrats (like Phil Berg).

p.s. Point of clarification about this "dimwitted base" you keep talking about. Is it your belief that anyone who voted for Trump is dimwitted, or just a percentage of them? What percentage would that be, and how did you determine how much of this group was dimwitted? Is that group larger, smaller, or the same size as the group of dimwitted who voted for/supported Hillary Clinton? In your view, is it dimwitted for someone to comment on a topic, let's say NFL football, which they obviously don't know much about? Thanks in advance for the clarification.

 

[Frankfooter]

The link works.

If your screen goes to white because you've read too many Washington post articles without subscribing, delete your Internet history. Problem solved.

Or open the page in private browsing mode.

 

[essguy_]

You obviously don't go to games. Fans booed the kneeling loudly long before Trump had anything to say about it. They didn't boo any more loudly after he tweeted.
The fan message boards were full of negative comments about the kneeling. You should know that Trump is rarely a leader on such issues. Just like the birth certificate movement he jumped on years after it was set in motion by Democrats (like Phil Berg).

p.s. Point of clarification about this "dimwitted base" you keep talking about. Is it your belief that anyone who voted for Trump is dimwitted, or just a percentage of them? What percentage would that be, and how did you determine how much of this group was dimwitted? Is that group larger, smaller, or the same size as the group of dimwitted who voted for/supported Hillary Clinton? In your view, is it dimwitted for someone to comment on a topic, let's say NFL football, which they obviously don't know much about? Thanks in advance for the clarification.

You miss the point. You have to be there (i.e. buy a ticket) to boo. After Trump tweeted his "outrage" - many of his dimwitted fans obliged and stopped attending. Further, for the NFL which has seen declining viewer numbers for at least a couple of years it was the perfect storm. Once a product loses lustre or was on the decline to begin with, all it takes is a little push to do real damage.

PS - re: your request for clarification of "dimwitted base": if you have to ask....

 

[james t kirk]

p.s. Kneeling on football fields will not change policing protocols.

No, but it does raise awareness to the issue of out of control policing. It gets people talking about the issue. (Just look at this thread.) When people talk about an issue, they then decide whether or not there is a problem. In addition, the press asks, "why?" and a debate may ensue. I've seen the instances of unarmed people getting SHOT and killed in the USA (and arguably Sammy Yatim in Toronto.) My opinion is that there are more than just "some" cops out there who are out of control. The police in the US have become a paramilitary organization and that stems from the American culture of fear where evil lurks under every rock.

There is no denying that the system needs to change. But it will NEVER change if people aren't talking about it.

p.p.s. Football fans, including myself, are not "in favour" of blacks being shot by police, or anyone else being shot by police, in circumstances where there is neither any danger to the officer nor is the shooting necessary to effect an arrest.

They may not be "in favour" of a black (or any other colour) person being shot by the cops when the person didn't do anything that required being shot, however, are they upset when an unarmed person gets shot by the cops? Do they just accept the police reasoning behind the shooting as correct? It would seem so by the sheer number of ludicrous acquittals we are seeing in the USA. Even video evidence is being disregarded and the cops are walking away laughing.

p.p.p.s. The stats that the BLM crowd trot out are garbage. Most of the cops charged in the wake of BLM protests have been acquitted, often by black judges and/or juries.

I agree that BLM is a racist organization and a joke, however, I'd like some proof of your statement that cops who have shot unarmed black people are being acquitted by black judges and or juries. Perhaps posting a link or two.

 

[james t kirk]

The Players Association should be partners and be fully consulted on issues like this. The all white old boys owners club are treating their mostly black players like slaves. Perhaps the NFL's constitution is as flawed as the US Constitution which apparently allows an idiot like Trump to continue to destroy democracy .

"Like slaves"???

I think the remuneration for the players is a long way from "slave".

 

[Bud Plug]

No, but it does raise awareness to the issue of out of control policing. It gets people talking about the issue. (Just look at this thread.) When people talk about an issue, they then decide whether or not there is a problem. In addition, the press asks, "why?" and a debate may ensue. I've seen the instances of unarmed people getting SHOT and killed in the USA (and arguably Sammy Yatim in Toronto.) My opinion is that there are more than just "some" cops out there who are out of control. The police in the US have become a paramilitary organization and that stems from the American culture of fear where evil lurks under every rock.

There is no denying that the system needs to change. But it will NEVER change if people aren't talking about it.

There is no denying that protesting on national TV gets attention. However, HOW you get attention will determine whether a serious debate will ensue. I don't think millionaires kneeling on astroturf and pissing off uber-patriotic types by doing it during the anthem is how you get a serious debate going.

They may not be "in favour" of a black (or any other colour) person being shot by the cops when the person didn't do anything that required being shot, however, are they upset when an unarmed person gets shot by the cops? Do they just accept the police reasoning behind the shooting as correct? It would seem so by the sheer number of ludicrous acquittals we are seeing in the USA. Even video evidence is being disregarded and the cops are walking away laughing.

Sometimes the cops could be justified in shooting an unarmed man (as just one example, to prevent his attempted escape from arrest in connection with the commission of a serious crime). No sane person with any exposure to cops would argue that there aren't some bad ones out there. However, I think the problem is the ineffectiveness of internal investigations as the primary means of dealing with bad cops. That model needs to be reexamined.

I agree that BLM is a racist organization and a joke, however, I'd like some proof of your statement that cops who have shot unarmed black people are being acquitted by black judges and or juries. Perhaps posting a link or two.

Here's a background article on the judge who acquitted two officers, and who declared a mistrial of another, in connection with the Freddie Gray case in Baltimore: https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/us/judge-barry-williams-baltimore-trials/index.html

 

[Bud Plug]

You miss the point. You have to be there (i.e. buy a ticket) to boo. After Trump tweeted his "outrage" - many of his dimwitted fans obliged and stopped attending. Further, for the NFL which has seen declining viewer numbers for at least a couple of years it was the perfect storm. Once a product loses lustre or was on the decline to begin with, all it takes is a little push to do real damage.

PS - re: your request for clarification of "dimwitted base": if you have to ask....

You don't seem to appreciate the economics of football. New Era Field holds 72,000 people. If the average ticket price were $100 (it's actually lower than that, in Buffalo), the gate per game would be only $7.2 million. 8 home games would net, therefore, only about $58 million in revenue. The player salaries of the Bills alone top $170 million, never mind other operating costs! Obviously, it is not a gate driven league. Having fans in the stands is necessary to create an atmosphere that presents well on TV. TV contracts and other merchandising are where the money is. While other problems have contributed to recent declining popularity (i.e. failure by the league to address domestic abuse by players, failure to eliminate drug use, failure to address serious injury to star players), to the uber-patriotic, disrespecting the anthem was the final straw. They heard the booing. They probably cussed the players themselves. They turned off their TV sets, regardless of how many were in the stands. No business could ignore that.

As to the rest of your post, I think you got my point, and if you didn't, maybe there's a reason for that........