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Erdogan slams Israel as ‘terrorist state’ that ‘kills children’

Frankfooter

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Funny thing is you don't unless you can blame Israel for it. For example you won't mention the Gazan lynched this week when Hamas accused him of collaboration or the Palestinians repressed by the both the PA and Hamas. You never seem to mention Palestinians killed when or schools hit by Gaza rockets that fell short and you won't criticize the PLO for keeping Palestinians in refugee camps in the West Bank.

Simply put, your posts are transparently not about human rights but simply looking for a excuse to justify your hatred of Israel's existence.


I have no problem empathizing with innocent Palestinians who are attacked or killed. Excuse me when I don't fell as bad when Palestinians are killed in the act of terrorism or attacks on Israelis.
Palestinians should also use the rule of law, and yes, Hamas uses the death penalty on those they think are committing treason without legit trials. That's wrong, and so is the death penalty as far as I'm concerned.

Yet that's not nearly has heinous as apartheid, the Gaza death camp and the continual killing of civilians by Israel.
If you think its that bad, please support charges through the ICC, I'd back you on that.

Bring both sides to the rule of law.
End apartheid, bring on equal rights.

http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news...ppeals-to-the-hague-over-israeli-crimes-33799
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Its funny that you think that this would be important and that you think this is correct.
In a historical perspective, that is completely correct.

And unless you're not in complete agreeance with what was history, it's funny that you find this completely irrelevant
 

Frankfooter

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Then why do you keep making excuses for Palestinians to use violence and keep complaining when violent Palestinians get arrested?
Because the occupation is illegal and a war crime.
Palestinians have a legal right to self determination.

Israel can arrest people, but they can't use excessive arrests to oppress the occupied people.
The use of separate laws, a court system that finds 99% of people guilty, arbitrary midnight arrests, arresting children in the middle of the night, and administrative detention of 16 year old girls are all excessive and therefore war crimes.

You should stop supporting apartheid and war crimes.
Support Canadian values of equal rights.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Because the occupation is illegal and a war crime.
Palestinians have a legal right to self determination.

Israel can arrest people, but they can't use excessive arrests to oppress the occupied people.
The use of separate laws, a court system that finds 99% of people guilty, arbitrary midnight arrests, arresting children in the middle of the night, and administrative detention of 16 year old girls are all excessive and therefore war crimes.

You should stop supporting apartheid and war crimes.
Support Canadian values of equal rights
Frankie, any human being should have the RIGHT to protect itself.

How on earth do you figure that Jews (or Israeli's) should NOT be able to protect themselves??
Please explain, because I do NOT understand why you feel this way
 

Frankfooter

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Frankie, any human being should have the RIGHT to protect itself.

How on earth do you figure that Jews (or Israeli's) should NOT be able to protect themselves??
Please explain, because I do NOT understand why you feel this way
This is context of Basketcase claiming that trespassing Israeli settlers have the right to shoot unarmed farmers on their land if they don't move out of the way, with basketcase claiming this is 'self defence' and an 'attack on Jews'.

Are you now talking about Israel's right to 'self defence' against the land they are illegally occupying or illegal squatters claiming they have the right to self defence against those whose land they are stealing?

That's why its time to bring in the ICC.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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This is context of Basketcase claiming that trespassing Israeli settlers have the right to shoot unarmed farmers on their land if they don't move out of the way, with basketcase claiming this is 'self defence' and an 'attack on Jews'.

Are you now talking about Israel's right to 'self defence' against the land they are illegally occupying or illegal squatters claiming they have the right to self defence against those whose land they are stealing?
Okay, I'll bite.

How do you know for sure "they" are stealing anything??
 

Frankfooter

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Okay, I'll bite.

How do you know for sure "they" are stealing anything??
https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm
Taking land by force is a war crime.

Though we know that you believe that Israel has already stolen that land and has just established an apartheid country.
Possibly even an even worse war crime.

No, Israel's right to protect itself from Hamas savages through apartheid supersedes everything else
 

basketcase

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Because the occupation is illegal and a war crime....
The occupation is not illegal and is not a war crime. You could definitely argue the legality of settlements but not the occupation. Jordan was the previous governing power in the West Bank and they signed over control to Israel in their peace treaty. Of course you and many Palestinians see all of Israel as the 'occupation' and use it as an excuse to attack any Jews in the region just like their parents and grandparents did since 1920.

If Palestinians want to use violence in their protests then they should be arrested. I see you have no problem when either Hamas or the PA lock people up for even hinting at disagreement with them.
 

basketcase

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This is context of Basketcase claiming that trespassing Israeli settlers have the right to shoot...
You are disgustingly full of shit and sadly need to lie awbout what I've said.

First they weren't trespassing, they were hiking on unowned land. Second, legitimate reports and simple logic says that the kids were attacked first before the adult decided to fire back. The adult escorting the kids had a legitimate right to self defense because he was being attacked. Under Canadian law he responded with more force than required and should be charged as should the Palestinians who attacked the kids for being Jews.

More importantly, Palestinians CAN NOT use 'self defense' as an excuse to attack random Jews like the rabbi your Hamas terrorists just gunned down.

Palestinian civilians under attack have a right to use reasonable force to defend themselves but Jews being nearby does not constitute a threat of bodily harm.
 

basketcase

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https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm
Taking land by force is a war crime.

Though we know that you believe that Israel has already stolen that land and has just established an apartheid country.
Possibly even an even worse war crime.
So Jews hiking or driving in the West Bank are guilty of theft? And "theft" or "trespassing" do not meet the requirements for self defense.

There is a term you've used that describes targeting individual Jews because you don't like government policy.
 

Frankfooter

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So Jews hiking or driving in the West Bank are guilty of theft? And "theft" or "trespassing" do not meet the requirements for self defense.
Given the context, 'hiking' in this case appears to be a precursor towards land theft.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779714

Given that you've stated you are against any new settlements, you should also be against groups of illegal settlers going 'hiking' or trespassing, while fully armed.
I officially and formally declare that I hereby call for an end to settlement building.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Frankfooter

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Frankie, you're so filled with hate for Israel, you can't even see the truth anymore
Phil, you're so filled with hate for Palestinians you can't see the truth at all.

What I support isn't hate, its application of the law for both sides leading hopefully to equal rights for all.

Here's the page on the ICC's website.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/palestine

Here's the report on the state of the current investigations.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/otp/161114-otp-rep-PE_ENG.pdf

The ICC is investigating possible war crimes on both sides, as they should.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Phil, you're so filled with hate for Palestinians you can't see the truth at all.

What I support isn't hate, its application of the law for both sides leading hopefully to equal rights for all.

Here's the page on the ICC's website.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/palestine

Here's the report on the state of the current investigations.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/otp/161114-otp-rep-PE_ENG.pdf

The ICC is investigating possible war crimes on both sides, as they should
I'm not a big fan of Hamas, that much is true.
Palestinians in general I don't have a problem with
 

basketcase

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Given the context, 'hiking' in this case appears to be a precursor towards land theft.
https://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=779714

Given that you've stated you are against any new settlements, you should also be against groups of illegal settlers going 'hiking' or trespassing, while fully armed.
Holy shit your justifications are pathetic.

And considering how regularly Palestinians attack Jewish civilians in the West Bank, damn right they had adults acting as guards.
 

Frankfooter

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Holy shit your justifications are pathetic.

And considering how regularly Palestinians attack Jewish civilians in the West Bank, damn right they had adults acting as guards.
There you go blaming the victims again.
Palestinians live under an incredibly brutal military occupation, under restricted rights and ongoing violence from fully armed settlers with the backing of the army.
As B'teselem says:

A Routine Founded on Violence
Published: 11 November 2017

Israel’s control over approximately five million Palestinians in the Occupied Territories is not merely a theoretical-political issue to be resolved through negotiation at some future date. Nor are its effects limited to the extreme incidents usually reported – albeit partially – by the media, such as severe acts of violence carried out by soldiers or by settlers. This control is a regular fixture in the lives of all Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. Their lives are subjected to a daily routine of violence – some of it overt, but more often implicit. Blatant displays of Israel’s control over the Palestinians, as well as instances that do not involve the direct use of physical force, are both forms of organized, ongoing state violence by Israel.

This organized state violence is inextricably linked to Israel’s ongoing control – by a variety of military, civilian, legal and administrative means – over Palestinian civilians. First, because subjecting millions of people to decades of foreign rule in which they have no political representation is in itself a form of violence. Second, as history has shown time and again, it is unfeasible to keep a civilian population subjugated under foreign occupation without resorting to the use of force.

The very fact that Palestinians have no political representation in the Israeli state systems that govern their lives leaves them open to the potential of arbitrary use of force, both physical or administrative, that is subject to virtually no restriction. This results in harassment and abuse of Palestinians, sometimes for no apparent reason, and at times on the basis of barely plausible security grounds. Regardless, the actions always conform to the power structure of ruler and subject, mechanisms that leave Palestinians entirely at the mercy of decisions made by Israelis: officials of the Civil Administration (the branch of the military designated to handle civil matters in Area C of the West Bank), judges, politicians, Israel Security Agency officers, prison guards, soldiers and Border Police officers. Life under these conditions means being in a state of constant uncertainty about the present and the future. It is a life bereft of privacy, a bare life subject to intrusion at any given time.

In the years that have gone by since 1967, circumstances have changed and evolved differently in the various areas that Israel controls. Accordingly, it uses different methods to control Palestinians in every area: there are differences between Israel’s external control over Gaza and its direct control over the West Bank and annexed East Jerusalem.

In the Gaza Strip, it is Israel that determines critical aspects of daily life as it the main power deciding who and what can enter or leave Gaza: Israel decides which foods will be available to Gaza residents and which food they may export. Israel does not allow Palestinians to leave Gaza – with very few exceptions – and prohibits them from visiting their relatives in the West Bank. Israel does not permit Gaza residents to go study at West Bank universities, and so on. Israel determines the level of medical care available in Gaza, as it decides which medical equipment will be allowed in, what medications will reach hospitals, and what professional seminars doctors can travel to attend. As Israel’s decisions mean that little more than nominal care is available, many Gazans in need of medical assistance must seek proper care outside Gaza. Yet here, too, Israel is the one deciding who may or may not have access professional care. Similarly, the critical shortage of electricity in Gaza lies is primarily Israel’s doing. The power shortage has led to a shortage of potable water and prevents proper waste treatment. In other words, decisions made by Israeli officials are what determines the standard of living in Gaza as well as opportunities for economic development, education, starting a family and so on. The upshot is that the nearly two million Palestinians living in Gaza are left with no control over their lives.

Israel’s control of the West Bank takes a different form for several reasons: because Israel directly oversees and handles the use of land throughout the West Bank; because of the presence and attendant consequences of Israeli settlements; and because of the unmediated daily contact between Palestinians and Israeli security forces or other Israeli authorities. The military disrupts Palestinians’ lives by restricting their freedom of movement as it sees fit. Often this is done without a moment’s notice. Soldiers block off roads temporarily or with permanent roadblocks, detain Palestinians at checkpoints, demand that they follow instructions, humiliate them and sometimes even use physical violence against them. Free of the obligation to present search warrants or offer any other justification, soldiers enter homes throughout the West Bank every day – and every night – disrupting family’s lives, intimidating the inhabitants and invading their privacy. The Civil Administration (CA) implements a strict yet arbitrary policy when it comes to issuing the permits that apply to every aspect of life in the West Bank. CA officials determine who may travel abroad, who may work in Israel, who may worship in Jerusalem, who may pay a visit to Gaza, who may receive goods ordered and who may show up to work on time. This permit regime does not operate according to any clear rules and offers no explanations for the decisions it makes. Israel considers every permit it issues a Palestinian an act of benevolence. The upshot is that the nearly three million Palestinians living in the West Bank are left with no control over their lives.

In East Jerusalem, which was illegally annexed to Israel’s sovereign border, Palestinians suffer severe discrimination in budget allocation and services compared to the western part of the city. Additionally, their right to continue living in the city is always at risk. The police imposes extreme restrictions on the movement of residents without giving them any advance notice. The wall that Israel built, which lies between several Palestinian neighborhoods and the rest of the Jerusalem, means about 140,000 Palestinian residents of Jerusalem must go through a checkpoint every single day on their way to work, to hospital or to pay a visit to friends. Above all, the various authorities implement a planning and construction policy that keeps residents from building homes and necessary public structures, condemning them to a life of overcrowding. When residents, left with no alternative, build homes without permits, authorities often issues demolition orders, which in some cases are carried out. This subjects Palestinians to living in a state of constant fear and uncertainty about their future. The upshot is that the 370,000 or so Palestinians in East Jerusalem are left with no control over their lives.

The reality described above is the outcome of actions and decisions made by voters, politicians, judges, civil servants and soldiers – all of whom are Israeli and belong to a different societal ingroup than the people whose lives they run. Israel’s superior power and its absolute control over all walks of life are used to police the Palestinian population, to suppress resistance and to perpetuate the occupation.

All Palestinian residents of the West Bank and Gaza live under Israeli control of one kind or another. Israel views this situation as absolute and permanent, considering it a given that these persons have no political rights. Palestinians are not taken into account when decisions that determine every aspect of their lives are constantly being made by Israelis – be it at the voting booth or in CA decisions or in military orders. Thirteen million people live on the land that lies between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, but only eight million of them have a voice, have political rights, have the right to have rights. The rest are forced to live their lives according to decisions made people they did not elect and under whose rule they never chose to live. This is a routine that is inherently violent. It is a violence that will only end when the occupation does.
https://www.btselem.org/routine_founded_on_violence

Palestinians are basically unarmed, without rights and living under constant threat of violence.
Yet you still think they are the sources of violence while ignoring the 50 year long illegal occupation.
 

basketcase

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There you go blaming the victims again.....
Your pathetic avoidance of regular Palestinian violence is not achieving anything.

And no matter what complaints they have about government, NOTHING justifies them taking out their frustration on any Jew who happens to be near them.
 

Frankfooter

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Your pathetic avoidance of regular Palestinian violence is not achieving anything.
The stats and reports show that Israel is much, much more violent.
They regularly kill way more civilians and injure thousands of civilians and children.

Yet you are so racist that no matter how many Palestinians are killed you will only talk about Israeli deaths.
You aren't any different from Galsegin, really.
 

basketcase

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The stats...
I wonder why it is you like stats and avoid details?

For example, Hamas makes a point of murdering civilians because they are Jews. They celebrate murdering civilians who are Jews. You choose to ignore it when Hamas murders civilians and instead pretend they aren't terrorists.

Meanwhile the vast majority of Palestinians killed in the past two years were not killed because they were Palestinians but because they were directly engaged in attacks on Jews.
 
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