Club Dynasty

Erdogan slams Israel as ‘terrorist state’ that ‘kills children’

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Actually it's a little unfair ... like shooting fish in a barrel. Sadly it's coming to an early end as you note - Trump is fighting a loosing battle aided by his own stupidity
Its you who's losing. Trump is headed for a 2nd term and you Libs are gonna lose your shit even more when he wins in 2020.

Cheers!!!

Priorities are priorities. Hell this could be me on the receiving end : https://i3.fapality.com/videos_screenshots/11000/11013/240x180/45.jpg Yea Trump ! ;)
403 Forbidden (again)

LOL
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Zionist simply refers to anyone who believes in the existence of the State of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people.
Zionism is a colonialist movement to take control of historic Palestine.
Stating its the 'homeland of the Jewish people' also means that its not a democratic movement, but one based on race.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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LOL.....here we go.

Frankie is in deep, deep denial
From wiki:
Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת‬ Tsiyyonut Hebrew pronunciation: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut] after Zion) is the national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

Pretty much exactly my first statement.

A couple of paragraphs down in the wiki page.
Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of a persecuted people residing as minorities in a variety of nations to their ancestral homeland.[12][13][14] Critics of Zionism view it as a colonialist,[15] racist[16] and exceptionalist[17] ideology that led advocates to violence during Mandatory Palestine, followed by the exodus of Palestinians, and the subsequent denial of their right to return to property lost during the 1948 war.[18][19][20][21]
Israel really is the last active colonization in the world. Its 19th century thinking.

Here's what the NYT has to say about Trump's moves, zionism and the end of the two state solution.
Mustafa Barghouti, a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization’s central council, told me that before Trump’s decision, “there was a frozen peace process,” but many people believed it could be restarted. “Mr. Trump killed the potential,” he said.

This appears to have been intentional. Writing in “Fire and Fury,” his new book about the Trump administration, Michael Wolff quotes Steve Bannon boasting about the implications of moving the embassy to Jerusalem, which Bannon treated as a death knell to Palestinian national aspirations. “We know where we’re heading on this,” Bannon reportedly said to the ousted Fox News chief executive Roger Ailes. “Let Jordan take the West Bank, let Egypt take Gaza.”

Despite Bannon’s Great Game fantasies, that’s not going to happen. Instead, if the possibility of Palestinian statehood is foreclosed, Israel will be responsible for all the territory under its control. There will be one state; the question is what sort of state it will be. Some on the Israeli right foresee a system in which most Palestinians will remain stateless indefinitely, living under a set of laws different from those governing Israeli citizens. Yoav Kish, a Likud member of Parliament, has drawn up a plan in which Palestinians in the West Bank will have limited local administrative sovereignty; rather than citizens they will be “Residents of the Autonomy.” Supporters of Israel hate it when people use the word “apartheid” to describe the country, but we don’t have another term for a political system in which one ethnic group rules over another, confining it to small islands of territory and denying it full political representation.

The word “apartheid” will become increasingly inescapable as a small but growing number of Palestinians turn from fighting for independence to demanding equal rights in the system they are living under. “If the Israelis insist now on finishing the process of killing the two-state solution, the only alternative we have as Palestinians is one fully democratic, one-state solution,” Barghouti says, in which everyone has “totally equal rights.”

Needless to say, Israel will accept no such thing. Though demographics in the region are as contested as everything else, Palestinians are likely to soon become a majority of the population in Israel and the occupied territories. If all of them were given the right to vote, Israel would cease to be a Jewish state.

But most of the world — including most of the Jewish diaspora — will have a hard time coming up with a decent justification for opposing a Palestinian campaign for equal rights.
Israel’s apologists will be left mimicking the argument that William F. Buckley once made about the Jim Crow South. In 1957, he asked rhetorically whether the white South was entitled to prevail “politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not predominate numerically.” The “sobering answer,” he concluded, was yes, given the white community’s superior civilization.

It’s impossible to say how long Israel could sustain such a system. But the dream of liberal Zionism would be dead. Maybe, with the far right in power both here and there, it already is
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/08/opinion/liberal-zionism-jerusalem.html

If you are a decent person, you have a moral imperative to stand against apartheid.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Those darned Jews, eh Frankie???? :biggrin1:
Not at all, zionism is a political movement, its not a race.
Fortunately there are plenty of Jewish organization who don't support zionism, check the wiki link above and the group below.
http://ijvcanada.org/

Like I continue to say, Toronto has a great left wing Jewish community.

And fortunately it looks like the ICC investigations into Israeli war crimes are progressing well, with the Knesset bracing for charges.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180109-knesset-warned-of-icc-investigation-in-2018/

Forcing both sides to abide by the law would be very good.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Not at all, zionism is a political movement, its not a race.
Fortunately there are plenty of Jewish organization who don't support zionism, check the wiki link above and the group below.
http://ijvcanada.org/

Like I continue to say, Toronto has a great left wing Jewish community.

And fortunately it looks like the ICC investigations into Israeli war crimes are progressing well, with the Knesset bracing for charges.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180109-knesset-warned-of-icc-investigation-in-2018/

Forcing both sides to abide by the law would be very good
OMG!!!!!!!

Do I need to add anything further......LOL???!! :biggrin1:
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Zionism is a colonialist movement to take control of historic Palestine.
Stating its the 'homeland of the Jewish people' also means that its not a democratic movement, but one based on race.
In Frankie's mind, zionism is when Jews expect the right to live in peace in the middle east.

Half of Israeli Jews had grandparents living in the Middle East and were chased out by Arab anti-semitism.

At the same time that he complains that Israel essentially has Judaism as their official religion, he has no problem with the Palestinians and most of the Middle East having Islam as their official religion and basis of their legal system.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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...

If you are a decent person, you have a moral imperative to stand against apartheid.
If it was happening in Israel I would.

Terrorism is regularly happening in Israel but you are too afraid to comment on the rabbi being gunned down yesterday, the 219 Palestinian firebomb attacks or the 35 rocket and mortar atatcks from Gaza in december.

Canada defines Hamas as a terrorist entity but you continually support them.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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If it was happening in Israel I would.
Apartheid is happening in Israel.
Its time for you to take a moral stand against apartheid.


I am living under Apartheid in Hebron

I am a Palestinian living in Hebron.

I live stateless with no rights.

I have no rights to general assembly, no rights to free speech, to due process or to freedom of movement. I get 10% of the water illegal settlers living next to me get. I am not allowed to walk down the streets of my own city. I can’t travel, work, or do business without being granted permission, which I must seek from the occupying forces themselves.

Living under military law next to illegal Israeli settlers who live under civilian law, I know well the experience of terror and violence. I also know well what apartheid was, and what it looks like today in my city.

As such, I find it curious that the German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel has found himself under attack by Israel’s right-wing government and its supporters for comparing Israel’s policy in my city to apartheid in South Africa.


Israeli Minister of Internal Security Gilad Erdan called Foreign Minister Gabriel’s assessment “totally false,” further noting that, “all those interested in promoting peace and opposing hatred in the region must reject such an outrageous comparison.” Dr. Efraim Zuroff, head of the Jerusalem Office of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, said Gabriel “denies [Israel’s] democratic basis” and “ legitimized unjust attacks on the Jewish state.”

A German Jewish activist from Cologne, Malca Goldstein-Wolf, penned an open letter accusing Gabriel of “providing further ammunition to youths who were fed anti-Semitism with their mothers’ milk.”



But Hebron in particular and Palestine in general are divided between those who have rights — namely settlers — and those who don’t — Palestinians like me.

In 1994, a Brooklyn born settler named Baruch Goldstein, opened fire in Hebron’s Ibrahimi mosque, killing 29 Palestinians in worship. Israel punished us collectively by forbidding us from driving on our main street, Shuhada Street. In addition, what had previously been our vegetable market was “sterilized” - the military term for free of Palestinians.

This was the onset of the process of segregation in my city, turning it into a ghost town, as 40% of the residents left.

Today, settlers can drive cars on Shuhada Street and carry weapons. But I am barely allowed to enter. When I do, I am compelled to pass through checkpoints stationed at each end of the street. Once inside, I submit my ID card and the special number I have been assigned as a resident of my neighborhood, Tel Rumeida. Sometimes it takes hours to get through the checkpoint, only to be denied entry.

Surely, upon witnessing this segregation in 2012, the de-facto reality of apartheid was undeniable to Minister Gabriel. Since Gabriel’s visit in 2012, things are even more severe in Hebron. The checkpoints have increased in number and have been remodeled so that their entrances resemble the front of a maximum security prison. Now what happens to me inside the checkpoint cannot be witnessed by those on the outside.


But the most brutal form of Israel’s apartheid in the West Bank is its two separate sets of legal systems. I currently face 18 charges in Israeli military court for protesting non-violently, exercising free speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom to protest. Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi, recently arrested for slapping a soldier who attempted to invade her home, is facing 12 charges.


Unlike settlers living illegally on Palestinian land, Ahed and I, like all Palestinians, are subject to military rather than civilian law. Contrast Ahed’s case to Yifat Alkobi’s and you will see what two justice systems for two kinds of people looks like. Yifat is infamous for being filmed taunting my neighbor, calling her a “sharmuta” (“whore” in Arabic). But Yifat, like Ahed, once slapped a soldier in Hebron who tried to stop her from her from throwing stones. Unlike Ahed who sits now in military jail, Alkobi was simply taken to the police station for questioning and released the same evening on bail.

Yifat, like the numerous settlers who have assaulted me, has never served any jail time for her offenses. On one rare occasion, when my nose was broken by a settler who attacked me in Hebron, the Israeli courts found him guilty thanks to footage of the assault. But the proceedings took four years in civilian court, and ultimately, the only punishment imposed on him was a one month restraining order from Hebron.

Conversely, if I had broken his nose, I would have received three to seven years in jail. That is, if I hadn’t been shot first.

This bleak unjust reality is understandably what prompted Minister Gabriel to publicly reflect in 2012, “I was just in Hebron. There’s a legal vacuum there for Palestinians. This is an apartheid regime, for which there is no justification.”

His recent re-invocation of the similarities between Israel and apartheid South Africa came shortly after President Trump’s declaration of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, which has effectively served as another nail in the coffin for a two-state solution. Shortly following Trump’s announcement, Netanyahu’s Likud party passed a resolution to annex the West Bank, thus formalizing the one-state reality, which former Secretary of State John Kerry aptly called “separate and unequal.”

My city, Hebron, is a microcosm of the occupation that exists through the West Bank. The Israeli government and its apologists will surely continue to attack Minister Gabriel and others, who compare Israel’s policies to those of apartheid South Africa.

Yet, the only way for Israel to effectively cease such comparisons from being made is for it to end its system of apartheid in Hebron and Palestine at large.
Read more: https://forward.com/opinion/391587/i-am-living-under-apartheid-in-hebron/
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Apartheid is happening in Israel....
Bullshit. Some op/ed does not change the fact that Israel's laws are not based on race but on citizenship. Israeli citizens of Palestinians ethnicity have the exact same rights as Israeli citizens with Jewish ethnicity.


And I see you are still avoiding the gunning down of a Rabbi in the West Bank and the 219 Palestinian firebomb attacks in December.
 

canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
CM accuses Jewish group of being neo nazis and white supremacists!
CM falls for propaganda and attacks a peace group.
Yet again.
http://ijvcanada.org/bnai-brith-sme...t-jewish-voices-based-on-lies-and-defamation/
what kind of a peace group links to neo nazis and holocaust deniers?


here is the news story from a real news website

Independent Jewish Voices Canada (IJV) has issued an apology for February 2015 postings on its Facebook page and Twitter feed that linked to an article on a website that supports Holocaust denial and various conspiracy theories.

IJV said that it had “thoughtlessly linked to” the article, titled “A truth most Jews don’t want to know about anti-Semitism,” by anti-Zionist journalist Alan Hart and published on Veterans Today, but it stressed that, “like Hart, IJV strongly condemns anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial of any kind.”

Veterans Today has been denounced by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Law Poverty Center as a white supremacist hate site, and accuses Jews of being responsible for the 9/11 terror attacks.

Inserted into Hart’s article is an editor’s note that reads, in part, “One of the most prevalent abuses of what is called the holocaust is the ritual exploitation of numbers which have long been debunked, but are still continually abused.”

IJV, which has been criticized for promoting the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement, said in its statement that the postings were “an oversight.” It removed them June 7, apparently in response to a press release by B’nai Brith Canada that publicized the postings and denounced IJV.

IJV’s statement referred to Hart, who has claimed the Mossad was behind the 9/11 attacks, as a “widely respected journalist and Mid-East expert,” and called B’nai Brith’s press release “slanderous.”

B’nai Brith had declared that the IJV “promotes Holocaust denial” and questioned IJV’s identification as a Jewish organization. It noted that the group’s spokesperson, Tyler Levitan, “has been given a prominent place in reporting by the Toronto Star, Globe and Mail and Canadian Press on the recent failure of an anti-boycott bill in the Ontario legislature.”

B’nai Brith CEO Michael Mostyn condemned IJV for “masquerading as a representative Jewish group,” adding: “These postings cement the notion that IJV is a Jewish fig leaf for neo-Nazis and anti-Semitism… and provides a cover for those who would peddle anti-Semitism under the guise of radical anti-Zionism.”

Amanda Hohmann, B’nai Brith’s national director of the League for Human Rights, said the IJV post was first unearthed by campus affairs co-ordinator Aidan Fishman, whose role includes responding to complaints about anti-Semitism.

“We’ve had a couple complaints from people in the community about [IJV] and about the media… giving them a platform, especially around the recent BDS motion,” Hohmann told The CJN.

She said B’nai Brith’s June 7 release is the first in a series the group is planning to issue that will “expose what IJV is all about.”

Hohmann added: “The fact a ‘Jewish’ group is linking to anything on Veterans Today is completely insane… We’ll be doing follow-ups on other posts and on IJV’s connection to other far right-wing sources.”

Scott Weinstein, a member of IJV’s steering committee, told The CJN that his organization is “guilty of sloppy social media use, but it’s a real leap of logic to say we deny the Holocaust.”

He said IJV takes full responsibility for failing to carefully examine the website that Hart’s article was posted on, but now acknowledges that Veterans Today is “a disreputable site.”

“We’re not Holocaust deniers, and we take as a given that it was six million Jews who were murdered and it was an atrocity,” he said.

Weinstein said the editor’s note in Hart’s article may have been added after IJV linked to the piece, but he’s not sure.

“B’nai Brith is part of a strategy that refuses at all costs to have a rigorous, factual and honest discussion about what’s going on in Israel and Palestine. So what they do is resort to slandering critics of Israel and supporters of Palestinian human rights in any way they can. They call us anti-Semites, they Jew-shame us. That’s their game,” he said.

http://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/i...-far-right-website-accuses-bnai-brith-slander
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Bullshit. Some op/ed does not change the fact that Israel's laws are not based on race but on citizenship. Israeli citizens of Palestinians ethnicity have the exact same rights as Israeli citizens with Jewish ethnicity.
The UN report, now in the ICC offices, shows that Israeli laws inside of the green line are apartheid.
But the most obvious cases of apartheid lie in the occupied territories, with its separate roads, laws, services and citizenship status, all under Israeli rule.

Israel most definitely is apartheid and you have yet to raise a single real defence against the arguments.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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The UN report, ....
That bullshit again? the report was commissioned by dictators and rejected by the UN.

And your examples of 'apartheid' are about citizenship. Roads are for Israelis, not Jews. Laws are for Israelis, not Jews. Services are for Israelis, not Jews.

The only thing close to apartheid is Arab Israelis are allowed in PA controlled areas while Jewish Israelis aren't.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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...

And I see you are still avoiding the gunning down of a Rabbi in the West Bank and the 219 Palestinian firebomb attacks in December.
And still no comment from you on a rabbi getting gunned down.

I can't wait to read all your complaints about how Israel is actually searching for the perps and your complaints if the perps get arrested.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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That bullshit again? the report was commissioned by dictators and rejected by the UN.

And your examples of 'apartheid' are about citizenship. Roads are for Israelis, not Jews. Laws are for Israelis, not Jews. Services are for Israelis, not Jews.

The only thing close to apartheid is Arab Israelis are allowed in PA controlled areas while Jewish Israelis aren't.
Thanks for confirming that in the Occupied Territories that there are two sets of laws based on race.
Services for Israeli settlers, who are all Jewish are different from Palestinians.
Laws are different.
Roads are different.

That's apartheid.

Even if you don't accept the UN report, the ICC will.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Thanks for confirming that in the Occupied Territories that there are two sets of laws based on race....
Keep confirming you are an unrepentant liar.


Israeli man killed in West Bank drive-by shooting attack
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https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-man-seriously-injured-in-west-bank-drive-by-shooting-attack/

Hailing West Bank shooting, Hamas warns of more attacks to come
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hailing-west-bank-shooting-hamas-warns-of-more-attacks-to-come/
 
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