Erdogan slams Israel as ‘terrorist state’ that ‘kills children’

[FAST]

Where did I directly call you an anti-semite??

A real strong case of guilty conscience maybe.

 

[Frankfooter]

In a violent riot where people were attacking the Israeli troops.

Here is the eye witness testimony from a Jewish Israeli (race noted to quell accusations of bias).
Again.
The protests are weekly marches to get water from the village well.

The Tamimi family has been demonstrating every Friday for about a decade, protesting the takeover of Nabi Saleh’s natural water spring by nearby settlers. As Bassem Tamimi once explained to me, in quite fluent Hebrew, the villagers said nothing when the army built the settlement of Halamish (originally Neve Tzuf) on their land. But when the settlers confiscated their spring, and the army then prevented the Tamimis from accessing it, Bassem and his extended family decided to draw a red line.

Every week they gather at the top of the hill inside their village, carrying flags and banners, and walk toward the road that separates them from the spring. The goal is simply to cross the road and walk to the spring. And every week, the army deploys security forces inside and around the village to stop the protesters from reaching their destination.

The way it works is this: at around noon, military vehicles enter the village and park at the bottom of its bisecting road. Security forces, heavily armed and wearing combat gear, descend from the vehicles, load their weapons, and wait. Sometimes they start shooting as soon as the demonstration begins, and sometimes they wait for a teenager to throw a stone in their direction before opening fire.

As Ben Ehrenreich notes in his New York Times Magazine article about Nabi Saleh, the army spokesperson told him there has never been a single case of a soldier being injured by a stone at those demonstrations. But over the past few years, soldiers have injured and killed several demonstrators.

In one now notorious incident, a soldier cracked open the rear door of his armored jeep as it was on its way out of the village, and shot a tear gas canister directly into the face of Ahed’s 21-year-old cousin Mustafa, killing him. No-one was ever censured or prosecuted for that act of murder.

These are just a few of the things I saw in Nabi Saleh.

Once, I was standing on the roof of a home with three teenage girls who lived there. We were watching the demonstration from a bit of a distance — maybe 150 meters. Suddenly one of the soldiers standing down the road pivoted in our direction, raised his weapon, aimed, and shot tear gas canisters directly at us. He shot another couple of canisters at the house, shattering the living room window. The older girl told me that her family had stopped replacing it every time the soldiers broke it; the glass had become too expensive.

I also witnessed soldiers deliberately blanketing a small house in tear gas until its occupants, coughing and retching long streams of mucus, were forced to emerge. They were two elderly women, wrinkled and bent over, and a young woman in her twenties.

I’ve seen soldiers grab crying children and shove them into military vehicles, pushing aside their screaming mothers.

I’ve seen soldiers grab a young woman by her arms and drag her like a sack of potatoes for several meters along an asphalt road so hot that it melted the rubber soles of my running shoes, before tossing her into a military vehicle and driving away.

I’ve had my ankles singed black when a security officer looked me straight in the eyes and threw a stun grenade at my legs.

Israeli army sharp-shooters regularly shoot unarmed demonstrators in Nabi Saleh with both rubber-coated steel bullets and live ammunition. They break into houses and drag people out, arresting them on the claim that they allowed demonstrators to hide in their garden.

And then I would go back to Tel Aviv and be told by my friends that I could not have seen what I saw, because “our soldiers” do not behave that way. Soon, I had to distance myself from those friends in order to keep my own emotions in check.

I write these sordid descriptions of what I saw at the demonstrations as a means of explaining how and why that place radicalized me. After Nabi Saleh I was, in a way, broken. The impact of the violence on my psyche was exhausting and traumatic, with long-lasting effects that I still experience today.

By the time I began going to Nabi Saleh, I had spent about four years reporting on what I saw in Gaza and the West Bank, and watching detachedly as my politics moved ever leftward from the liberal place in which they started, as a consequence of what I saw on the ground. But it was in Nabi Saleh that I lost the last remnants of what I would call — for lack of a word to describe my nostalgia for the idea of a state for the Jews — my Zionism.

My radicalization was not only a consequence of witnessing brutal violence perpetrated right in front of my eyes, by soldiers of the army that was supposed to protect me. It was also a result of my seeing the Tamimi family endure that violence week after week, seeing their relatives injured, arrested and killed, and still not coming to the conclusion that the price of resistance was too high. They simply refuse to submit.

Week after week, they welcome strangers into their home with kindness and hospitality. No one in Nabi Saleh ever expressed an ideological political opinion to me. They didn’t have to. The situation is clear; the actions of the Israeli government and security forces there are impossible to defend, on any level. And of course that is the source of the Tamimis’ strength — the knowledge that their cause is just, and that they are fighting it with ethical, nonviolent means.

The Tamimis clearly understand the power of social media. But they don’t manufacture those confrontations. In fact, I have never seen a video that comes remotely close to conveying the true brutality I saw in Nabi Saleh. Maybe you need to smell the tear gas and feel the smallness of the place to see how outrageous it is for soldiers to act as they do there: to, with a sense of entitlement, enter a village and break up a gathering of unarmed demonstrators; to kick open the doors of homes and drag off to jail unarmed people who pose no threat; to break into a house at 4 a.m., to roust a teenage girl from her bed and drag her off to jail, denying her even the right to be accompanied by a guardian.

I am sure Ahed understands very well the effect of her striking appearance. I am sure that Bassem Tamimi knows his genuine warmth and hospitality go a lot further in winning over hearts and minds than didactic political lectures ever could. With no money, and by sacrificing their own bodies and emotional well being, the Tamimis are drawing world attention to the hundreds of Palestinian children sitting in jail, who don’t have blonde hair and a strong, supportive family. They are showing the world what the occupation means, in tangible terms, to real people. They taught me, purely by example, what grassroots resistance means.

Is Israel, with all the money and manpower it pours into sophisticated advocacy campaigns via social media, really in a position to criticize the Tamimis for understanding how to publicize their own cause? As Jonathan Pollak says to Yaron London, the reason those Nabi Saleh videos make Israel look bad is because Israel is doing bad things.

Lisa Goldman has been writing about the Middle East in general, Israel-Palestine specifically for well over a decade. Since moving from Jaffa to Brooklyn a couple of years ago, she also writes about the US-Israel bilateral relationship and about the relationship between the American Jewish community and Israel. Republished, with permission, from

You're disgusting for supporting this kind of horror.
Have you seen the pictures of Ahed's brother, who was shot in the head?

 

[basketcase]

Here is the eye witness testimony from a Jewish Israeli (race noted to quell accusations of bias).
Again.
The protests are weekly marches to get water from the village well.



You're disgusting for supporting this kind of horror.
Have you seen the pictures of Ahed's brother, who was shot in the head?

It's amazing that you keep posting the same biased stuff even when it's not on point.

The guy was killed in a violent riot where people were attacking soldiers with rocks and firebombs. As I said, I don't know if he was directly attacking people but their regular 'protests' are not peaceful as you claim.

 

[Frankfooter]

It's amazing that you keep posting the same biased stuff even when it's not on point.

The guy was killed in a violent riot where people were attacking soldiers with rocks and firebombs. As I said, I don't know if he was directly attacking people but their regular 'protests' are not peaceful as you claim.

Despite not knowing you never have a criticism or problem when Palestinians are killed.
You support it each and every time.

And again, read the article.
Its an eye witness account free from bias complaints as they are Israeli Jewish.

It clearly states that the villagers only want access to their well and that the Israeli military has shot at them every week for 10 years while they try to get water.

The Tamimi family has been demonstrating every Friday for about a decade, protesting the takeover of Nabi Saleh’s natural water spring by nearby settlers. As Bassem Tamimi once explained to me, in quite fluent Hebrew, the villagers said nothing when the army built the settlement of Halamish (originally Neve Tzuf) on their land. But when the settlers confiscated their spring, and the army then prevented the Tamimis from accessing it, Bassem and his extended family decided to draw a red line.

Every week they gather at the top of the hill inside their village, carrying flags and banners, and walk toward the road that separates them from the spring. The goal is simply to cross the road and walk to the spring. And every week, the army deploys security forces inside and around the village to stop the protesters from reaching their destination.

The way it works is this: at around noon, military vehicles enter the village and park at the bottom of its bisecting road. Security forces, heavily armed and wearing combat gear, descend from the vehicles, load their weapons, and wait. Sometimes they start shooting as soon as the demonstration begins, and sometimes they wait for a teenager to throw a stone in their direction before opening fire.

As Ben Ehrenreich notes in his New York Times Magazine article about Nabi Saleh, the army spokesperson told him there has never been a single case of a soldier being injured by a stone at those demonstrations. But over the past few years, soldiers have injured and killed several demonstrators.

In one now notorious incident, a soldier cracked open the rear door of his armored jeep as it was on its way out of the village, and shot a tear gas canister directly into the face of Ahed’s 21-year-old cousin Mustafa, killing him. No-one was ever censured or prosecuted for that act of murder.

These are just a few of the things I saw in Nabi Saleh.

Once, I was standing on the roof of a home with three teenage girls who lived there. We were watching the demonstration from a bit of a distance — maybe 150 meters. Suddenly one of the soldiers standing down the road pivoted in our direction, raised his weapon, aimed, and shot tear gas canisters directly at us. He shot another couple of canisters at the house, shattering the living room window. The older girl told me that her family had stopped replacing it every time the soldiers broke it; the glass had become too expensive.

I also witnessed soldiers deliberately blanketing a small house in tear gas until its occupants, coughing and retching long streams of mucus, were forced to emerge. They were two elderly women, wrinkled and bent over, and a young woman in her twenties.

I’ve seen soldiers grab crying children and shove them into military vehicles, pushing aside their screaming mothers.

I’ve seen soldiers grab a young woman by her arms and drag her like a sack of potatoes for several meters along an asphalt road so hot that it melted the rubber soles of my running shoes, before tossing her into a military vehicle and driving away.

I’ve had my ankles singed black when a security officer looked me straight in the eyes and threw a stun grenade at my legs.

Israeli army sharp-shooters regularly shoot unarmed demonstrators in Nabi Saleh with both rubber-coated steel bullets and live ammunition. They break into houses and drag people out, arresting them on the claim that they allowed demonstrators to hide in their garden.

And then I would go back to Tel Aviv and be told by my friends that I could not have seen what I saw, because “our soldiers” do not behave that way. Soon, I had to distance myself from those friends in order to keep my own emotions in check.

I write these sordid descriptions of what I saw at the demonstrations as a means of explaining how and why that place radicalized me. After Nabi Saleh I was, in a way, broken. The impact of the violence on my psyche was exhausting and traumatic, with long-lasting effects that I still experience today.

By the time I began going to Nabi Saleh, I had spent about four years reporting on what I saw in Gaza and the West Bank, and watching detachedly as my politics moved ever leftward from the liberal place in which they started, as a consequence of what I saw on the ground. But it was in Nabi Saleh that I lost the last remnants of what I would call — for lack of a word to describe my nostalgia for the idea of a state for the Jews — my Zionism.

My radicalization was not only a consequence of witnessing brutal violence perpetrated right in front of my eyes, by soldiers of the army that was supposed to protect me. It was also a result of my seeing the Tamimi family endure that violence week after week, seeing their relatives injured, arrested and killed, and still not coming to the conclusion that the price of resistance was too high. They simply refuse to submit.

Week after week, they welcome strangers into their home with kindness and hospitality. No one in Nabi Saleh ever expressed an ideological political opinion to me. They didn’t have to. The situation is clear; the actions of the Israeli government and security forces there are impossible to defend, on any level. And of course that is the source of the Tamimis’ strength — the knowledge that their cause is just, and that they are fighting it with ethical, nonviolent means.

The Tamimis clearly understand the power of social media. But they don’t manufacture those confrontations. In fact, I have never seen a video that comes remotely close to conveying the true brutality I saw in Nabi Saleh. Maybe you need to smell the tear gas and feel the smallness of the place to see how outrageous it is for soldiers to act as they do there: to, with a sense of entitlement, enter a village and break up a gathering of unarmed demonstrators; to kick open the doors of homes and drag off to jail unarmed people who pose no threat; to break into a house at 4 a.m., to roust a teenage girl from her bed and drag her off to jail, denying her even the right to be accompanied by a guardian.

I am sure Ahed understands very well the effect of her striking appearance. I am sure that Bassem Tamimi knows his genuine warmth and hospitality go a lot further in winning over hearts and minds than didactic political lectures ever could. With no money, and by sacrificing their own bodies and emotional well being, the Tamimis are drawing world attention to the hundreds of Palestinian children sitting in jail, who don’t have blonde hair and a strong, supportive family. They are showing the world what the occupation means, in tangible terms, to real people. They taught me, purely by example, what grassroots resistance means.

Is Israel, with all the money and manpower it pours into sophisticated advocacy campaigns via social media, really in a position to criticize the Tamimis for understanding how to publicize their own cause? As Jonathan Pollak says to Yaron London, the reason those Nabi Saleh videos make Israel look bad is because Israel is doing bad things.

Lisa Goldman has been writing about the Middle East in general, Israel-Palestine specifically for well over a decade. Since moving from Jaffa to Brooklyn a couple of years ago, she also writes about the US-Israel bilateral relationship and about the relationship between the American Jewish community and Israel. Republished, with permission, from

 

[basketcase]

Despite not knowing you never have a criticism or problem when Palestinians are killed....

You never stop lying.

I just don't criticize too much when Palestinians are killed while attacking people.

And posting that same blog (that like you pretends the protests are peaceful) over and over again just makes it clear you have no point to make other than you hate Israel.

 

[Frankfooter]

You never stop lying.

I just don't criticize too much when Palestinians are killed while attacking people.

Every time a Palestinian dies you characterize it as 'Palestinians were attacking people'.
In this case, you're now claiming that this farmer, working on a field without weapons, attacked some trespassing Israelis with his face, and the poor Israelis were forced to shoot him dead to defend themselves on his land.

Right?

Sort of like the way you defended Israel killing a legless, wheelchair bound protester who was protesting inside the Gaza death camp walls.
Right?

And sort of like the way you defend Israel killing multiple relatives of Ahed Tamimi as they try to use the village well Israel has been 'occupying' for 10 years.
Right?

Every Palestinian death seems to be fully justified to you.

 

[basketcase]

Every time a Palestinian dies you characterize it as 'Palestinians were attacking people'.....

Bullshit, just in cases where they were.

The death you were talking about was during a violent riot where 'protesters' were throwing rocks and firebombs at the IDF.

And show me one post where I defended shooting the guy in the wheelchair. As usual, the only way you can claim the moral high ground is by outright lies.

 

[Frankfooter]

Bullshit, just in cases where they were.

The death you were talking about was during a violent riot where 'protesters' were throwing rocks and firebombs at the IDF.

And show me one post where I defended shooting the guy in the wheelchair. As usual, the only way you can claim the moral high ground is by outright lies.

Thanks for confirming my claim.
And do you want to show me the posts where you stated you think Israelis should be charged with murder/terrorism for shooting the unarmed, legless, wheelchair bound protester in the head while inside the death camp walls?

 

[basketcase]

Thanks for confirming my claim....

Your claim was the Palestinians were attacking the IDF with rocks and firebombs? At least we agree on something.


As for the Gaza guy, my only comment was that Hamas preventing the IDF from having access to the autopsy report was hindering their investigation.But

But in th enews this week,
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-l...ation-into-palestinian-double-amputees-death/
When was the last time the PA or Hamas even pretended to investigate an attack on Israelis?

 

[Frankfooter]

Your claim was the Palestinians were attacking the IDF with rocks and firebombs? At least we agree on something.

My claim was that regardless of the situation you would claim that Palestinians were the ones on the attack.
Thanks for confirming we both agree on that point.

As for the Gaza guy, my only comment was that Hamas preventing the IDF from having access to the autopsy report was hindering their investigation.But

Right, blaming Palestinians again.

But in th enews this week,
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-l...ation-into-palestinian-double-amputees-death/
When was the last time the PA or Hamas even pretended to investigate an attack on Israelis?

Investigation and findings announced all in one.
From your story.

“No live fire was aimed at Abu Thurayeh. It is impossible to determine whether Abu Thurayeh was injured as a result of riot dispersal means or what caused his death,” the army said at the end of the investigation on December 18.

 

[basketcase]

My claim was that regardless of the situation you would claim that Palestinians were the ones on the attack....

As I said, just when they were. The 'protest' where the Tamini relative was killed was widely reported as violent with rocks and firebombs being thrown by what you consider peaceful protesters. The Palestinian farmer was killed after Palestinians attacked a bunch of kids hiking near their village. In neither case did I say the deaths were justified but simply ripped your bullshit that the Palestinians are blameless.



And your lack of basic literacy is showing as you are unable to distinguish between the preliminary investigation and the one going on now. And even if the investigation doesn't lay charges, it is still light years better than Hamas celebrating attacks on Jews.

 

[Frankfooter]

As I said, just when they were. The 'protest' where the Tamini relative was killed was widely reported as violent with rocks and firebombs being thrown by what you consider peaceful protesters. The Palestinian farmer was killed after Palestinians attacked a bunch of kids hiking near their village. In neither case did I say the deaths were justified but simply ripped your bullshit that the Palestinians are blameless.

As I noted, you support every Palestinian killed, relying on IDF statements that the protests were violent, despite unbiased accounts.
It fits your narrative, where no matter what, you support killing Palestinians and refuse to accept they have equal human rights.

As Al Jazeera notes, those same Palestinians live under the threat of constant Israeli terrorism.

In the absence of any protection from the Israeli army or the PA, some villages must take security into their own hands to defend their communities. It's common for Palestinians to throw rocks at Israelis on their land as such incursions often result in attacks on the village.

The trauma of settler violence in the community runs deep. According to the United Nations, settlers have uprooted hundreds of the village's olive trees and have torched its mosque.

Settlers from the Esh Kodesh outpost have long carried out so-called "price-tag" attacks on the village.

Abd al-Atheem said the settlers have also killed a number of the residents' sheep and demolished the village's water wells.

In 2011, Odeh's nephew was killed by an Israeli soldier after attempting to stop settlers from uprooting his olive trees.

"We live a very difficult life here," Atheem said. "Each one of my sons could use 10 psychologists."

 

[basketcase]

As I noted, ...

As noted, you continually lie about people's view because your views are completely immoral.

Israelis live under constant threat of Palestinian terror rockets from Gaza but you seem to think they aren't a problem.

 

[Frankfooter]

As noted, you continually lie about people's view because your views are completely immoral.

Israelis live under constant threat of Palestinian terror rockets from Gaza but you seem to think they aren't a problem.

Palestinians in Gaza are living in a death camp.
They live with minimal electricity, minimal food and water while under the constant threat of bombs and drones.
Even walking too close to the camp walls will get them shot and killed.

But of course you appear to not count them as human and only concern yourself with the welfare of Israelis.

 

[basketcase]

Palestinians in Gaza are living in a death camp.....

Godwin's law.

Only a complete zealot would compare Israeli actions towards Hamas ruled Gaza to extermination camps run by the Nazis.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

As noted, you continually lie about people's view because your views are completely immoral.

Israelis live under constant threat of Palestinian terror rockets from Gaza but you seem to think they aren't a problem

Not just rockets, also Hamas clowns digging beneath the Israeli wall trying to get in into Jerusalem

 

[IM469]

I'll give you credit for one thing, at least now you're no longer referring to "them" as zionists, its now by its proper name which is "Israeli Jews"

I usually avoid these Israeli threads as they circle ad infinitem and I'm in the middle ground which makes me a target for both sides. But help me in the terminology here:

What is a 'zionist' - is it now socially unacceptable (like retarded, midget, etc) or is it a particular Jewish secular religious group ?
Does 'Israeli' describe citizens of Israel independent of religion ?
Does 'Israeli Jews' only include Jewish citizens of Israel ?

Just curious. I'm too busy fighting Trump, trying to win last post and looking for any thin reason to post a hot girl to get involved in this debate.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I usually avoid these Israeli threads as they circle ad infinitem and I'm in the middle ground which makes me a target for both sides. But help me in the terminology here:

What is a 'zionist' - is it now socially unacceptable (like retarded, midget, etc) or is it a particular Jewish secular religious group ?

Rumor has it anti-semites have progressed from blaming Jews of everything, to calling them "zionists" so as not to arouse suspicion

Does 'Israeli' describe citizens of Israel independent of religion ?
Does 'Israeli Jews' only include Jewish citizens of Israel ?

I dunno. WhyTF are you asking me?? I'm not Jewish myself

Just curious. I'm too busy fighting Trump

You're fighting a losing battle

looking for any thin reason to post a hot girl to get involved in this debate

Now you're talking!!

 

[IM469]

Rumor has it anti-semites have progressed from blaming Jews of everything, to calling them "zionists" so as not to arouse suspicion

So I assume there are no 'Zionists' - it's a derogatory term.

I dunno. WhyTF are you asking me?? I'm not Jewish myself

I kind of fell on the thread and saw that you wrote about using the correct term so I made a leap of faith that you were basing your congratulations to the proper term from some inherent knowledge of those terms.

Re: fighting Trump - You're fighting a losing battle

Actually it's a little unfair ... like shooting fish in a barrel. Sadly it's coming to an early end as you note - Trump is fighting a loosing battle aided by his own stupidity.

Now you're talking!!

Priorities are priorities. Hell this could be me on the receiving end : https://i3.fapality.com/videos_screenshots/11000/11013/240x180/45.jpg Yea Trump !

 

[toguy5252]

I usually avoid these Israeli threads as they circle ad infinitem and I'm in the middle ground which makes me a target for both sides. But help me in the terminology here:

What is a 'zionist' - is it now socially unacceptable (like retarded, midget, etc) or is it a particular Jewish secular religious group ?
Does 'Israeli' describe citizens of Israel independent of religion ?
Does 'Israeli Jews' only include Jewish citizens of Israel ?

Just curious. I'm too busy fighting Trump, trying to win last post and looking for any thin reason to post a hot girl to get involved in this debate.

Zionist simply refers to anyone who believes in the existence of the State of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people.

Israeli refers to any citizen if Israel regardless of religion.