Erdogan slams Israel as ‘terrorist state’ that ‘kills children’
- Thread starter danmand
- Start date
Ok, publish the official offer and I'll apologize.Wow. Not surprising from a guy who pretends Israel has no borders but the details are widely reported and even Abbas admits the offer was made.
Fail and you need to apologize.
Go to it.
Got nothing else besides straw man arguments?When it comes from people like you who claim Israel has no right to exist and refuse to criticize disgusting behaviours from Hamas, the PA, and the Arab states....
Likud declares they want to annex large chunks of the West Bank.
Basketcase falsely accuses me of liking Hamas.
Israel passes a bill making it almost impossible for Jerusalem to become the Palestinian capital.
Basketcase falsely accuses me of claiming Israel has 'no right to exist'.
Israel kills another member of the Tamimi family.
Basketcase falsely accuses me of liking Hamas.
Trump threatens to cut off Palestinian aid.
Basketcase falsely accuses me of claiming Israel has 'no right to exist'.
and on and on.
Your hypocrisy is showing again but keep on pretending you support peace.Ok, publish the official offer and I'll apologize.
Fail and you need to apologize.
Go to it.
Abbas admits the offer was made and admits he walked away from it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/
Nothing "straw man" about your posting history.Got nothing else besides straw man arguments?...
Your continual lies about recorded facts to justify your support for Hamas is quite clear.
Well YA,... the offer didn't include the destruction of Israel,... so it would never fly,... and never will,... as long as Israel is surrounded by terrorist nations longing for its destruction.Your hypocrisy is showing again but keep on pretending you support peace.
Abbas admits the offer was made and admits he walked away from it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-admits-he-rejected-2008-peace-offer-from-olmert/
Anybody who thinks otherwise,... is either extremely stupid,... or actually is hoping for the destruction of Israel,... my bet is on the later.
Not mine, yours.Nothing "straw man" about your posting history.
Here, I'm posting this Jewish Israeli's reporting on the protests at Ahed Tamimi's village until you tell me why you support this kind of shit.
https://lobelog.com/nabi-saleh-is-where-i-lost-my-zionism/The Tamimi family has been demonstrating every Friday for about a decade, protesting the takeover of Nabi Saleh’s natural water spring by nearby settlers. As Bassem Tamimi once explained to me, in quite fluent Hebrew, the villagers said nothing when the army built the settlement of Halamish (originally Neve Tzuf) on their land. But when the settlers confiscated their spring, and the army then prevented the Tamimis from accessing it, Bassem and his extended family decided to draw a red line.
Every week they gather at the top of the hill inside their village, carrying flags and banners, and walk toward the road that separates them from the spring. The goal is simply to cross the road and walk to the spring. And every week, the army deploys security forces inside and around the village to stop the protesters from reaching their destination.
The way it works is this: at around noon, military vehicles enter the village and park at the bottom of its bisecting road. Security forces, heavily armed and wearing combat gear, descend from the vehicles, load their weapons, and wait. Sometimes they start shooting as soon as the demonstration begins, and sometimes they wait for a teenager to throw a stone in their direction before opening fire.
As Ben Ehrenreich notes in his New York Times Magazine article about Nabi Saleh, the army spokesperson told him there has never been a single case of a soldier being injured by a stone at those demonstrations. But over the past few years, soldiers have injured and killed several demonstrators.
In one now notorious incident, a soldier cracked open the rear door of his armored jeep as it was on its way out of the village, and shot a tear gas canister directly into the face of Ahed’s 21-year-old cousin Mustafa, killing him. No-one was ever censured or prosecuted for that act of murder.
These are just a few of the things I saw in Nabi Saleh.
Once, I was standing on the roof of a home with three teenage girls who lived there. We were watching the demonstration from a bit of a distance — maybe 150 meters. Suddenly one of the soldiers standing down the road pivoted in our direction, raised his weapon, aimed, and shot tear gas canisters directly at us. He shot another couple of canisters at the house, shattering the living room window. The older girl told me that her family had stopped replacing it every time the soldiers broke it; the glass had become too expensive.
I also witnessed soldiers deliberately blanketing a small house in tear gas until its occupants, coughing and retching long streams of mucus, were forced to emerge. They were two elderly women, wrinkled and bent over, and a young woman in her twenties.
I’ve seen soldiers grab crying children and shove them into military vehicles, pushing aside their screaming mothers.
I’ve seen soldiers grab a young woman by her arms and drag her like a sack of potatoes for several meters along an asphalt road so hot that it melted the rubber soles of my running shoes, before tossing her into a military vehicle and driving away.
I’ve had my ankles singed black when a security officer looked me straight in the eyes and threw a stun grenade at my legs.
Israeli army sharp-shooters regularly shoot unarmed demonstrators in Nabi Saleh with both rubber-coated steel bullets and live ammunition. They break into houses and drag people out, arresting them on the claim that they allowed demonstrators to hide in their garden.
And then I would go back to Tel Aviv and be told by my friends that I could not have seen what I saw, because “our soldiers” do not behave that way. Soon, I had to distance myself from those friends in order to keep my own emotions in check.
I write these sordid descriptions of what I saw at the demonstrations as a means of explaining how and why that place radicalized me. After Nabi Saleh I was, in a way, broken. The impact of the violence on my psyche was exhausting and traumatic, with long-lasting effects that I still experience today.
Why do you support this?
Why?
Obvious to anybody who isn't a terrorist supporting, racist/anti-Semite,... not to mention a name,... not needed,... as also obvious.There's a racist/anti-semite in this thread, but it isnt zionism
Exactly!Obvious to anybody who isn't a terrorist supporting, racist/anti-Semite,... not to mention a name,... not needed,... as also obvious
The way I see it criticising Israel is fine, they make plenty of mistakes and are not always angels either. But when you criticise Israel 24/7 and never admit many Palestinians, muslims and Arabs also carry a lot of blame in this conflict, you are clearly an anti-semite. I dont see how someone cannot be
Obvious to anybody who isn't a terrorist supporting, racist/anti-Semite,... not to mention a name,... not needed,... as also obvious.
This always seems to happen when I post something that the pro-Israel crowd here really can't answer to.Exactly!
The way I see it criticising Israel is fine,... you are clearly an anti-semite. I dont see how someone cannot be
So I'm asking again.
You both seem to think that the account below isn't something worth posting or criticizing Israel for.
Why do you support this kind of really just about evil program?
The Tamimi family has been demonstrating every Friday for about a decade, protesting the takeover of Nabi Saleh’s natural water spring by nearby settlers. As Bassem Tamimi once explained to me, in quite fluent Hebrew, the villagers said nothing when the army built the settlement of Halamish (originally Neve Tzuf) on their land. But when the settlers confiscated their spring, and the army then prevented the Tamimis from accessing it, Bassem and his extended family decided to draw a red line.
Every week they gather at the top of the hill inside their village, carrying flags and banners, and walk toward the road that separates them from the spring. The goal is simply to cross the road and walk to the spring. And every week, the army deploys security forces inside and around the village to stop the protesters from reaching their destination.
The way it works is this: at around noon, military vehicles enter the village and park at the bottom of its bisecting road. Security forces, heavily armed and wearing combat gear, descend from the vehicles, load their weapons, and wait. Sometimes they start shooting as soon as the demonstration begins, and sometimes they wait for a teenager to throw a stone in their direction before opening fire.
As Ben Ehrenreich notes in his New York Times Magazine article about Nabi Saleh, the army spokesperson told him there has never been a single case of a soldier being injured by a stone at those demonstrations. But over the past few years, soldiers have injured and killed several demonstrators.
In one now notorious incident, a soldier cracked open the rear door of his armored jeep as it was on its way out of the village, and shot a tear gas canister directly into the face of Ahed’s 21-year-old cousin Mustafa, killing him. No-one was ever censured or prosecuted for that act of murder.
These are just a few of the things I saw in Nabi Saleh.
Once, I was standing on the roof of a home with three teenage girls who lived there. We were watching the demonstration from a bit of a distance — maybe 150 meters. Suddenly one of the soldiers standing down the road pivoted in our direction, raised his weapon, aimed, and shot tear gas canisters directly at us. He shot another couple of canisters at the house, shattering the living room window. The older girl told me that her family had stopped replacing it every time the soldiers broke it; the glass had become too expensive.
I also witnessed soldiers deliberately blanketing a small house in tear gas until its occupants, coughing and retching long streams of mucus, were forced to emerge. They were two elderly women, wrinkled and bent over, and a young woman in her twenties.
I’ve seen soldiers grab crying children and shove them into military vehicles, pushing aside their screaming mothers.
I’ve seen soldiers grab a young woman by her arms and drag her like a sack of potatoes for several meters along an asphalt road so hot that it melted the rubber soles of my running shoes, before tossing her into a military vehicle and driving away.
I’ve had my ankles singed black when a security officer looked me straight in the eyes and threw a stun grenade at my legs.
Israeli army sharp-shooters regularly shoot unarmed demonstrators in Nabi Saleh with both rubber-coated steel bullets and live ammunition. They break into houses and drag people out, arresting them on the claim that they allowed demonstrators to hide in their garden.
And then I would go back to Tel Aviv and be told by my friends that I could not have seen what I saw, because “our soldiers” do not behave that way. Soon, I had to distance myself from those friends in order to keep my own emotions in check.
I write these sordid descriptions of what I saw at the demonstrations as a means of explaining how and why that place radicalized me. After Nabi Saleh I was, in a way, broken. The impact of the violence on my psyche was exhausting and traumatic, with long-lasting effects that I still experience today.
Why do you think this is ok?
Funny how you respond even though we didnt mention you by nameThis always seems to happen when I post something that the pro-Israel crowd here really can't answer to.
So I'm asking again.
You both seem to think that the account below isn't something worth posting or criticizing Israel for.
Why do you support this kind of really just about evil program?
Why do you think this is ok?
Funny how you respond to me personally but refuse to comment on the post itself.Funny how you respond even though we didnt mention you by name
Tell me, do you support the way Israel has treated the Tamimi's?
Do you support the IDF shooting at them weekly for walking to their stolen spring?
Or are you just going to attack me personally again?
I said a few posts above that only anti-semites criticise Israel, and almost never Palestinians.Funny how you respond to me personally but refuse to comment on the post itself.
Tell me, do you support the way Israel has treated the Tamimi's?
Do you support the IDF shooting at them weekly for walking to their stolen spring?
And what do you do in this post again??
Its almost as if your posts speak for themselves
And I said that the Israel supporters always play the anti-semite card when they're challenged to defend evil acts.I said a few posts above that only anti-semites criticise Israel, and almost never Palestinians.
And what do you do in this post again??
Its almost as if your posts speak for themselves
For instance, here I am posting the comments of an Israeli Jew and here you are calling me an anti-semite for posting it as a way of refusing to comment on it.
(And I am very glad to support the left wing Jewish community that also objects to the Israeli policy I'm criticizing here)
http://lobelog.com/nabi-saleh-is-where-i-lost-my-zionism/The Tamimi family has been demonstrating every Friday for about a decade, protesting the takeover of Nabi Saleh’s natural water spring by nearby settlers. As Bassem Tamimi once explained to me, in quite fluent Hebrew, the villagers said nothing when the army built the settlement of Halamish (originally Neve Tzuf) on their land. But when the settlers confiscated their spring, and the army then prevented the Tamimis from accessing it, Bassem and his extended family decided to draw a red line.
Every week they gather at the top of the hill inside their village, carrying flags and banners, and walk toward the road that separates them from the spring. The goal is simply to cross the road and walk to the spring. And every week, the army deploys security forces inside and around the village to stop the protesters from reaching their destination.
The way it works is this: at around noon, military vehicles enter the village and park at the bottom of its bisecting road. Security forces, heavily armed and wearing combat gear, descend from the vehicles, load their weapons, and wait. Sometimes they start shooting as soon as the demonstration begins, and sometimes they wait for a teenager to throw a stone in their direction before opening fire.
As Ben Ehrenreich notes in his New York Times Magazine article about Nabi Saleh, the army spokesperson told him there has never been a single case of a soldier being injured by a stone at those demonstrations. But over the past few years, soldiers have injured and killed several demonstrators.
In one now notorious incident, a soldier cracked open the rear door of his armored jeep as it was on its way out of the village, and shot a tear gas canister directly into the face of Ahed’s 21-year-old cousin Mustafa, killing him. No-one was ever censured or prosecuted for that act of murder.
These are just a few of the things I saw in Nabi Saleh.
Once, I was standing on the roof of a home with three teenage girls who lived there. We were watching the demonstration from a bit of a distance — maybe 150 meters. Suddenly one of the soldiers standing down the road pivoted in our direction, raised his weapon, aimed, and shot tear gas canisters directly at us. He shot another couple of canisters at the house, shattering the living room window. The older girl told me that her family had stopped replacing it every time the soldiers broke it; the glass had become too expensive.
I also witnessed soldiers deliberately blanketing a small house in tear gas until its occupants, coughing and retching long streams of mucus, were forced to emerge. They were two elderly women, wrinkled and bent over, and a young woman in her twenties.
I’ve seen soldiers grab crying children and shove them into military vehicles, pushing aside their screaming mothers.
I’ve seen soldiers grab a young woman by her arms and drag her like a sack of potatoes for several meters along an asphalt road so hot that it melted the rubber soles of my running shoes, before tossing her into a military vehicle and driving away.
I’ve had my ankles singed black when a security officer looked me straight in the eyes and threw a stun grenade at my legs.
Israeli army sharp-shooters regularly shoot unarmed demonstrators in Nabi Saleh with both rubber-coated steel bullets and live ammunition. They break into houses and drag people out, arresting them on the claim that they allowed demonstrators to hide in their garden.
And then I would go back to Tel Aviv and be told by my friends that I could not have seen what I saw, because “our soldiers” do not behave that way. Soon, I had to distance myself from those friends in order to keep my own emotions in check.
I write these sordid descriptions of what I saw at the demonstrations as a means of explaining how and why that place radicalized me. After Nabi Saleh I was, in a way, broken. The impact of the violence on my psyche was exhausting and traumatic, with long-lasting effects that I still experience today.
By the time I began going to Nabi Saleh, I had spent about four years reporting on what I saw in Gaza and the West Bank, and watching detachedly as my politics moved ever leftward from the liberal place in which they started, as a consequence of what I saw on the ground. But it was in Nabi Saleh that I lost the last remnants of what I would call — for lack of a word to describe my nostalgia for the idea of a state for the Jews — my Zionism.
My radicalization was not only a consequence of witnessing brutal violence perpetrated right in front of my eyes, by soldiers of the army that was supposed to protect me. It was also a result of my seeing the Tamimi family endure that violence week after week, seeing their relatives injured, arrested and killed, and still not coming to the conclusion that the price of resistance was too high. They simply refuse to submit.
Week after week, they welcome strangers into their home with kindness and hospitality. No one in Nabi Saleh ever expressed an ideological political opinion to me. They didn’t have to. The situation is clear; the actions of the Israeli government and security forces there are impossible to defend, on any level. And of course that is the source of the Tamimis’ strength — the knowledge that their cause is just, and that they are fighting it with ethical, nonviolent means.
The Tamimis clearly understand the power of social media. But they don’t manufacture those confrontations. In fact, I have never seen a video that comes remotely close to conveying the true brutality I saw in Nabi Saleh. Maybe you need to smell the tear gas and feel the smallness of the place to see how outrageous it is for soldiers to act as they do there: to, with a sense of entitlement, enter a village and break up a gathering of unarmed demonstrators; to kick open the doors of homes and drag off to jail unarmed people who pose no threat; to break into a house at 4 a.m., to roust a teenage girl from her bed and drag her off to jail, denying her even the right to be accompanied by a guardian.
I am sure Ahed understands very well the effect of her striking appearance. I am sure that Bassem Tamimi knows his genuine warmth and hospitality go a lot further in winning over hearts and minds than didactic political lectures ever could. With no money, and by sacrificing their own bodies and emotional well being, the Tamimis are drawing world attention to the hundreds of Palestinian children sitting in jail, who don’t have blonde hair and a strong, supportive family. They are showing the world what the occupation means, in tangible terms, to real people. They taught me, purely by example, what grassroots resistance means.
Is Israel, with all the money and manpower it pours into sophisticated advocacy campaigns via social media, really in a position to criticize the Tamimis for understanding how to publicize their own cause? As Jonathan Pollak says to Yaron London, the reason those Nabi Saleh videos make Israel look bad is because Israel is doing bad things.
Lisa Goldman has been writing about the Middle East in general, Israel-Palestine specifically for well over a decade. Since moving from Jaffa to Brooklyn a couple of years ago, she also writes about the US-Israel bilateral relationship and about the relationship between the American Jewish community and Israel. Republished, with permission, from
Go ahead and tell me.
Do you support what the occupation has done to this village/family/teen?
Why do you think this is not evil?
Where did I directly call you an anti-semite??I am posting the comments of an Israeli Jew and here you are calling me an anti-semite
Why do you try to distract every discussion with this same one-sided blog?Not mine, yours.
Here, I'm posting this Jewish Israeli's reporting on the protests at Ahed Tamimi's village until you tell me why you support this kind of shit....
And on the racist level, you feel the need to point out the religion of the author.
But on the topic, I feel Israel is harsh in their responses to peaceful protests. Sadly though many of the protests, including the ones the Taminis organize are not peaceful and I feel the need to criticize their preference for violence over peace.
Sure he criticizes Palestinians. When given a choice between the PA and Hamas, he's happy to criticize Abbas. Hamas he keeps trying to pretend are upstanding, moral people who are interested in equality and human rights.Exactly!
The way I see it criticising Israel is fine, they make plenty of mistakes and are not always angels either. But when you criticise Israel 24/7 and never admit many Palestinians, muslims and Arabs also carry a lot of blame in this conflict, you are clearly an anti-semite. I dont see how someone cannot be
I'll give you credit for one thing, at least now you're no longer referring to "them" as zionists, its now by its proper name which is "Israeli Jews"I am posting the comments of an Israeli Jew and here you are calling me an anti-semite for posting it
Harsh?But on the topic, I feel Israel is harsh in their responses to peaceful protests. Sadly though many of the protests, including the ones the Taminis organize are not peaceful and I feel the need to criticize their preference for violence over peace.
The just killed a cousin of Tamimi, first Palestinian death of the new year.
Here's more background on those killed and injured in her family, as they protest to get their water source back as they have, every week for 10 years.
http://mondoweiss.net/2018/01/israels-prosecution-blaming/Israel claims Ahed is a violent and dangerous criminal. The crimes she is charged with, such as assault of a soldier, stone throwing and so-called incitement, could result in a lengthy prison sentence.
Before we consider whether Ahed deserves a life behind bars, we must first take a closer look at what is a criminal action and what is a life of enduring state violence. Is it the 16-year-old girl who dares to raise her hand to a fully armed Israeli soldier who is the criminal? Or is it the ongoing illegal occupation that places soldiers in the lives of unarmed teenage girls?
In 2011, Ahed Tamimi was 10-years-old when Israeli soldiers arrested her father and charged him with the crime of organizing weekly demonstrations in their village to oppose the theft of its land for the benefit of a neighboring Israeli settlement. It would be 13 months before he was released and she would see her father again.
That same year, Israeli soldiers shot Mustafa Tamimi, Ahed’s 28-year-old cousin, in the face with a high velocity tear gas canister. Half of Mustafa’s face was destroyed. He passed away the next morning at the hospital.
The following year, when Ahed was 11 years old, Israeli soldiers shot her uncle, Rushdi Tamimi, in his lower back with live ammunition. The bullet lodged in his stomach and he died the next morning in the hospital.
Ahed was 13 when Israeli soldiers shot her mother, Nariman Tamimi, in the leg with a 22-caliber bullet. Ahed stood by, crying in the arms of her father, as her mother was placed in the back of an ambulance. Her mother had to rely on crutches for a number of years until she regained use of her legs.
These are only a few of the tragedies of violence that Ahed has witnessed and suffered as an adolescent and early teen growing up under Israel occupation. More of her cousins and brothers have been injured and served time in Israeli prisons than is simple to count.
Just before the “slap heard round the world” on December 15, 2017, Ahed’s 14-year-old cousin, Mohammed Tamimi was hit directly in the face with a rubber coated steel bullet. During the incident, Israeli soldiers fired tear gas canisters at Ahed’s house shattering many of its windows. They then stationed themselves in the yard of the house.
I'll keep posting this and we can keep discussing how you don't think this is evil but all the fault of Palestinians.
Do you really think that they don't have a right to protest when settlers come in and steal their water source?
Why do you not fault Israel for stealing their water and shooting at them when they come to protest?
Why do you support this?
In a violent riot where people were attacking the Israeli troops.Harsh?
The just killed a cousin of Tamimi, first Palestinian death of the new year....
I don't know the guy's specific activities in the riot and attack on the soldiers but your pretence that it was peaceful protest is ridiculous.
But keep on posting that because without it, all your left with is making excuses for Palestinian terrorism.
