Erdogan slams Israel as ‘terrorist state’ that ‘kills children’

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Frankfooter

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The backroom moves are interesting lately.

Trump and the Saudi's had a peace plan that they tried to force Abbas to take, to have Abu Dis as the capital of a small Palestine.
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5051672,00.html
The Saudi's apparently threatened Abbas to force him to resign if he didn't agree. They also wanted Abbas to end the reconciliation with Hamas.
Then Trump went and made the Jerusalem announcement, after that happened it made public the move before any agreement could be made. All of a sudden the Muslim world was up in arms, the rest of the world voted against it at the UN and Abu Dis as the Palestinian capital is off the table.
Abbas up to that point was incredibly unpopular, now he's gaining support again for 'standing up' to the US.
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5063108,00.html
Abbas, being the idiot he is, isn't taking advantage of the situation and still seems to be just jockeying for leadership of the Palestinians.

Meanwhile in Israel, Netanyahu's party, Likud, just announced that they want to annex large parts of the West Bank.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/12/likud-calls-annexation-parts-west-bank-171231215302354.html

Seems they are not aware of the Saudi/Trump plan that's now dead and are content to continue the foolish attempts to take all of Palestine, bit by bit.
Its a stupid plan that's given them apartheid already, and lead to them slowly starting to lose the PR battle against BDS.
 
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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
Those places are very poor, true.....
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And yet another justification for keeping generations locked in camps without rights.


And your "death camp" claims are more of your hysterical bullshit. the only ones in Gaza putting people to death are Hamas.
 
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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
Hey fool,..
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Wait. We're allowed to insult people here? I have quite a list of accurate ones I could use.

And you choose to ignore it but there are very clear details about anti-semitism within the European Muslim community.
 
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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
The backroom moves are interesting lately....
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Considering Abbas has already rejected an offer with a shared Jerusalem, completely contiguous Palestine including a land corridor to Gaza, some refugees to Israel and compensation for the rest...
 
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Frankfooter

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Frankfooter

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Phil C. McNasty said:
I hope he cuts them off for good. Why should US give Israel's enemies any money??
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Maybe he should and then Abbas should disband the PA and let Israel administer all of apartheid Israel themselves.
Would bring a bit more press to the Gaza concentration camp and apartheid regime.

Maybe then the ICC would step in.

Just read an account of how a Jewish Israeli lost her zionism after staying in Nabi Saleh, where 16 year old Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian Joan of Arc, was just arrested for 12 charges after slapping a soldier who shot her brother in the face on their home.

The Tamimi family has been demonstrating every Friday for about a decade, protesting the takeover of Nabi Saleh’s natural water spring by nearby settlers. As Bassem Tamimi once explained to me, in quite fluent Hebrew, the villagers said nothing when the army built the settlement of Halamish (originally Neve Tzuf) on their land. But when the settlers confiscated their spring, and the army then prevented the Tamimis from accessing it, Bassem and his extended family decided to draw a red line.

Every week they gather at the top of the hill inside their village, carrying flags and banners, and walk toward the road that separates them from the spring. The goal is simply to cross the road and walk to the spring. And every week, the army deploys security forces inside and around the village to stop the protesters from reaching their destination.

The way it works is this: at around noon, military vehicles enter the village and park at the bottom of its bisecting road. Security forces, heavily armed and wearing combat gear, descend from the vehicles, load their weapons, and wait. Sometimes they start shooting as soon as the demonstration begins, and sometimes they wait for a teenager to throw a stone in their direction before opening fire.

As Ben Ehrenreich notes in his New York Times Magazine article about Nabi Saleh, the army spokesperson told him there has never been a single case of a soldier being injured by a stone at those demonstrations. But over the past few years, soldiers have injured and killed several demonstrators.

In one now notorious incident, a soldier cracked open the rear door of his armored jeep as it was on its way out of the village, and shot a tear gas canister directly into the face of Ahed’s 21-year-old cousin Mustafa, killing him. No-one was ever censured or prosecuted for that act of murder.

These are just a few of the things I saw in Nabi Saleh.

Once, I was standing on the roof of a home with three teenage girls who lived there. We were watching the demonstration from a bit of a distance — maybe 150 meters. Suddenly one of the soldiers standing down the road pivoted in our direction, raised his weapon, aimed, and shot tear gas canisters directly at us. He shot another couple of canisters at the house, shattering the living room window. The older girl told me that her family had stopped replacing it every time the soldiers broke it; the glass had become too expensive.

I also witnessed soldiers deliberately blanketing a small house in tear gas until its occupants, coughing and retching long streams of mucus, were forced to emerge. They were two elderly women, wrinkled and bent over, and a young woman in her twenties.

I’ve seen soldiers grab crying children and shove them into military vehicles, pushing aside their screaming mothers.

I’ve seen soldiers grab a young woman by her arms and drag her like a sack of potatoes for several meters along an asphalt road so hot that it melted the rubber soles of my running shoes, before tossing her into a military vehicle and driving away.

I’ve had my ankles singed black when a security officer looked me straight in the eyes and threw a stun grenade at my legs.

Israeli army sharp-shooters regularly shoot unarmed demonstrators in Nabi Saleh with both rubber-coated steel bullets and live ammunition. They break into houses and drag people out, arresting them on the claim that they allowed demonstrators to hide in their garden.

And then I would go back to Tel Aviv and be told by my friends that I could not have seen what I saw, because “our soldiers” do not behave that way. Soon, I had to distance myself from those friends in order to keep my own emotions in check.

I write these sordid descriptions of what I saw at the demonstrations as a means of explaining how and why that place radicalized me. After Nabi Saleh I was, in a way, broken. The impact of the violence on my psyche was exhausting and traumatic, with long-lasting effects that I still experience today.

By the time I began going to Nabi Saleh, I had spent about four years reporting on what I saw in Gaza and the West Bank, and watching detachedly as my politics moved ever leftward from the liberal place in which they started, as a consequence of what I saw on the ground. But it was in Nabi Saleh that I lost the last remnants of what I would call — for lack of a word to describe my nostalgia for the idea of a state for the Jews — my Zionism.

My radicalization was not only a consequence of witnessing brutal violence perpetrated right in front of my eyes, by soldiers of the army that was supposed to protect me. It was also a result of my seeing the Tamimi family endure that violence week after week, seeing their relatives injured, arrested and killed, and still not coming to the conclusion that the price of resistance was too high. They simply refuse to submit.

Week after week, they welcome strangers into their home with kindness and hospitality. No one in Nabi Saleh ever expressed an ideological political opinion to me. They didn’t have to. The situation is clear; the actions of the Israeli government and security forces there are impossible to defend, on any level. And of course that is the source of the Tamimis’ strength — the knowledge that their cause is just, and that they are fighting it with ethical, nonviolent means.

The Tamimis clearly understand the power of social media. But they don’t manufacture those confrontations. In fact, I have never seen a video that comes remotely close to conveying the true brutality I saw in Nabi Saleh. Maybe you need to smell the tear gas and feel the smallness of the place to see how outrageous it is for soldiers to act as they do there: to, with a sense of entitlement, enter a village and break up a gathering of unarmed demonstrators; to kick open the doors of homes and drag off to jail unarmed people who pose no threat; to break into a house at 4 a.m., to roust a teenage girl from her bed and drag her off to jail, denying her even the right to be accompanied by a guardian.

I am sure Ahed understands very well the effect of her striking appearance. I am sure that Bassem Tamimi knows his genuine warmth and hospitality go a lot further in winning over hearts and minds than didactic political lectures ever could. With no money, and by sacrificing their own bodies and emotional well being, the Tamimis are drawing world attention to the hundreds of Palestinian children sitting in jail, who don’t have blonde hair and a strong, supportive family. They are showing the world what the occupation means, in tangible terms, to real people. They taught me, purely by example, what grassroots resistance means.

Is Israel, with all the money and manpower it pours into sophisticated advocacy campaigns via social media, really in a position to criticize the Tamimis for understanding how to publicize their own cause? As Jonathan Pollak says to Yaron London, the reason those Nabi Saleh videos make Israel look bad is because Israel is doing bad things.

Lisa Goldman has been writing about the Middle East in general, Israel-Palestine specifically for well over a decade. Since moving from Jaffa to Brooklyn a couple of years ago, she also writes about the US-Israel bilateral relationship and about the relationship between the American Jewish community and Israel. Republished, with permission, from
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http://lobelog.com/nabi-saleh-is-where-i-lost-my-zionism/
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Frankfooter said:
Maybe he should
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Hey, we agree on something :biggrin1:

Frankfooter said:
and then Abbas should disband the PA and let Israel administer all of apartheid Israel themselves
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Not a bad idea

Frankfooter said:
Maybe then the ICC would step in
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Ugh Frankie, you were doing so well :(

Frankfooter said:
Just read an account of how a Jewish Israeli lost her zionism after staying in Nabi Saleh, where 16 year old Ahed Tamimi, the Palestinian Joan of Arc, was just arrested for 12 charges after slapping a soldier who shot her brother in the face on their home.


http://lobelog.com/nabi-saleh-is-where-i-lost-my-zionism/
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Hey Frankie, a lot of people feel that the word zionism (which you use a lot) is code for anti-semitism:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-judge-rules-anti-zionism-is-code-for-anti-semitism/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...france-president-racism-attacks-a7844711.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/31/why-anti-zionism-is-seen-as-antisemitism

How would you respond to those accusations??
 
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Frankfooter

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Phil C. McNasty said:
Hey, we agree on something :biggrin1:


Not a bad idea


Ugh Frankie, you were doing so well :(


Hey Frankie, a lot of people feel that the word zionism (which you use a lot) is code for anti-semitism:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-judge-rules-anti-zionism-is-code-for-anti-semitism/

How would you respond to those accusations??
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I'd say that's really stupid.
Zionism is a 19th century racist colonial movement, its not a race.
Check out IJV Canada, for instance, for a Jewish organization that doesn't support zionism.
http://ijvcanada.org/2017/ijv-on-can-abstention-jlem-vote/
Are IJV anti-semitic Jews?

As Likud just announced their bill to annex large parts of the west bank.
“After Trump was elected, I said the time had come to set a diplomatic goal of annexing Area C, on the way to exercising our sovereignty over all of Judea and Samaria,” Sa’ar said in the video he sent the Likud activists. “This will give a practical solution to the needs of the half-million Israelis living in Judea and Samaria.”
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And
Ze'ev Elkin, the chairman of the governing coalition, said Israel should adopt a "salami" approach to annexation: "We will try to apply sovereignty over as much as we can at any given moment."
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And other politicians say this will lead to an end of zionism.
The comments, delivered at a conference organised by a radical settlers' organisation, "removed the masks" of the Likud-Beiteinu electoral alliance, said Tzipi Livni, former foreign minister and leader of a new centrist party, Hatnua. "Likud-Beiteinu is extreme right wing, and will lead to the destruction of Zionism and the establishment of a binational state," she said. The right "will make Israel into a boycotted, isolated and ostracised state".
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/02/likud-israeli-annexation-west-bank-territories

Does that make Tzipi Livni anti-semitic?
 
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Frankfooter

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Phil C. McNasty said:
Maybe he has self-hate, lots of Left-wingers suffer from that affliction
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Or maybe zionists are the racist ones.
Check it out.

70% of American's aren't zionists.
https://surveys.google.com/reporting/survey?hl=en-US&survey=x5oybzltdxt763gxep3fyxynyu

90% of Jewish Israeli's are.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/90...emselves-Zionists-Herzl-Day-poll-finds-454347

And about 50% of Israeli Jews support ethnic cleansing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nians-wake-up-call-survey-finds-a6919271.html

Zionism is a movement that says a really old book gives them permission to take over a piece of land and push non-Jewish folk into the desert, or something like that, doesn't it?

During the discussion before the vote, Public Security Minister Gilad Erdan told the Likud Central Committee, “The time has come to express our Biblical right to the land”. Erdan then referenced the U.S. President’s December 6th declaration of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, saying that the Israeli government should take advantage of this opportunity to seize permanent control of the land.
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http://imemc.org/article/likud-convenes-to-urge-annexation-of-west-bank/
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Frankfooter said:
Or maybe zionists are the racist ones.
Check it out.

70% of American's aren't zionists.
https://surveys.google.com/reporting/survey?hl=en-US&survey=x5oybzltdxt763gxep3fyxynyu

90% of Jewish Israeli's are.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/90...emselves-Zionists-Herzl-Day-poll-finds-454347

And about 50% of Israeli Jews support ethnic cleansing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nians-wake-up-call-survey-finds-a6919271.html

Zionism is a movement that says a really old book gives them permission to take over a piece of land and push non-Jewish folk into the desert, or something like that, doesn't it?


http://imemc.org/article/likud-convenes-to-urge-annexation-of-west-bank/
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Again, why so much compassion for Palestinians (who are no angels themselves), Frankie??
There are lots of wars going on in the world, Africa has a few dozen going on right now.
But you never seem to mention any of them.

Does your compassion stem from the fact you and Palestinians share a common enemy??
 
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Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Phil C. McNasty said:
Again, why so much compassion for Palestinians (who are no angels themselves), Frankie??
There are lots of wars going on in the world, Africa has a few dozen going on right now.
But you never seem to mention any of them.

Does your compassion stem from the fact you and Palestinians share a common enemy??
Click to expand...
These threads have staying power and people with very different views, that's all.

And I take it that you don't have any defence that zionism is in of itself racist?
 
canada-man

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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
Or maybe zionists are the racist ones....
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Right. It isn't the people who started attacking Arab Jews because other Jews were legally buying land who are racist and constantly refer to "the Jews" when referring to Israel.
 
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