You quoted HRW, which means you think their claims are legit.
Lets look at them again.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses
Why do you keep backing apartheid?
Iran nukes
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Lets look at them again.
Why do you keep backing apartheid?
Actually I discussed pchr gaza (i didn't quote them, you did), a Palestinian group that deals only with Israel and is not allowed to mention rights abuses by Hamas or he PA.You quoted HRW, ...
And I see you don't want to discuss why those Palestinians were arrested or why this Palestinian groups should be considered more reliable that an international panel of military experts.
Hamas are a terrorist entity according to Canada, the US, and the EU and they reject the idea of permanent peace. Somehow in your quest for human rights you don't have a problem with them.
And no, I see HRW as having issues in the amount of time they devote to Israel and how little time they spend on serious rights abusers. Even their founder has criticized their bias.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/opinion/20bernstein.html?_r=1&em
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/opinion/20bernstein.html?_r=1&em
AS the founder of Human Rights Watch, its active chairman for 20 years and now founding chairman emeritus, I must do something that I never anticipated: I must publicly join the group’s critics. Human Rights Watch had as its original mission to pry open closed societies, advocate basic freedoms and support dissenters. But recently it has been issuing reports on the Israeli-Arab conflict that are helping those who wish to turn Israel into a pariah state.
At Human Rights Watch, we always recognized that open, democratic societies have faults and commit abuses. But we saw that they have the ability to correct them — through vigorous public debate, an adversarial press and many other mechanisms that encourage reform.
That is why we sought to draw a sharp line between the democratic and nondemocratic worlds, in an effort to create clarity in human rights. We wanted to prevent the Soviet Union and its followers from playing a moral equivalence game with the West and to encourage liberalization by drawing attention to dissidents like Andrei Sakharov, Natan Sharansky and those in the Soviet gulag — and the millions in China’s laogai, or labor camps.
When I stepped aside in 1998, Human Rights Watch was active in 70 countries, most of them closed societies. Now the organization, with increasing frequency, casts aside its important distinction between open and closed societies.
Nowhere is this more evident than in its work in the Middle East. The region is populated by authoritarian regimes with appalling human rights records. Yet in recent years Human Rights Watch has written far more condemnations of Israel for violations of international law than of any other country in the region.
...
That's not their mandate, true, but I'm sure you've got lots of sources for issues from Hamas and the PA.Actually I discussed pchr gaza (i didn't quote them, you did), a Palestinian group that deals only with Israel and is not allowed to mention rights abuses by Hamas or he PA.
Do you dispute their reporting?
Are you claiming those incidents didn't happen?
Robert Bernstein?And no, I see HRW as having issues in the amount of time they devote to Israel and how little time they spend on serious rights abusers. Even their founder has criticized their bias.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/opinion/20bernstein.html?_r=1&em
Here's what HRW said in response.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2009/10/20/why-we-report-open-societiesWhy We Report on 'Open' Societies
Responding to Robert Bernstein's NYT op-ed
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Human Rights Watch was saddened to read in The New York Times on October 20, 2009 that its founding chair, Robert L. Bernstein, feels he must "join the critics" of our work on Israel. We fundamentally disagree with Mr. Bernstein's views.
Human Rights Watch does not believe that the human rights records of "closed" societies are the only ones deserving scrutiny. If that were the case, we would not work on US abuses in Guantanamo Bay, police abuse in Brazil, the "untouchables" in India, or migrants in South Africa. "Open" societies and democracies commit human rights abuses, too, and Human Rights Watch has an important role to play in documenting those abuses and pressing for their end.
Human Rights Watch does not devote more time and energy to Israel than to other countries in the region, or in the world. We've produced more than 1,700 reports, letters, news releases, and other commentaries on the Middle East and North Africa since January 2000, and the vast majority of these were about countries other than Israel. Furthermore, our Middle East division is only one of 16 research programs at Human Rights Watch. The work on Israel is a tiny fraction of Human Rights Watch's work as a whole.
It is not the case that Human Rights Watch had "no access to the battlefield" after the Israeli operation in Gaza in January 2009. Although the Israeli government denied us access, our researchers entered Gaza via the border with Egypt and conducted extensive interviews with victims, eyewitnesses, United Nations officials, local authorities, and others. As in war zones around the world, we also visited attack sites, analyzed ballistics evidence, photographed wounds, and examined autopsy and other medical reports.
Mr. Bernstein brought his concerns about our work on Israel to a full meeting of the Human Rights Watch Board of Directors in April. The board unanimously rejected his view that Human Rights Watch should report only on closed societies, and expressed its full support for the organization's work.
Human Rights Watch stands fully behind the work we have done on Israel and around the world.
And remember, you were the one that quoted HRW.
Are you now saying they aren't reputable after you quoted them?
Would you prefer Amnesty, or are you really only taking IDF reports as the truth?
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie.../israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/Israeli forces unlawfully killed Palestinian civilians, including children, in both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), and detained thousands of Palestinians from the OPT who opposed Israel’s continuing military occupation, holding hundreds in administrative detention. Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained rife and was committed with impunity. The authorities continued to promote illegal settlements in the West Bank, including by attempting to retroactively “legalize” settlements built on private Palestinian land, and severely restricted Palestinians’ freedom of movement, closing some areas after attacks by Palestinians on Israelis. Israeli forces continued to blockade the Gaza Strip, subjecting its population of 1.9 million to collective punishment, and to demolish homes of Palestinians in the West Bank and of Bedouin villagers in Israel’s Negev/Naqab region, forcibly evicting residents. The authorities imprisoned conscientious objectors to military service and detained and deported thousands of asylum-seekers from Africa.
So you admit that like you HRW doesn't want to criticize massive rights abusers. Seems that your claims of them being 'legit' aren't quite accurate.That's not their mandate, true, ...
And I never said that the Palestinian groups claims didn't exist (though a couple of those points are clearly opinion, not data driven). I'm sure many Palestinian including youth were arrested. I simply called them out since they refuse to discuss what the arrests were for. For example, their numbers will include the guy who was just arrested in a stolen truck trying to mow down a bunch of Israelis.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/pales...nted-to-run-over-soldiers-because-of-al-aqsa/
That arrest along with the arrests of youth throwing rocks or firebombs at cars are completely justified and not a violation of anyone's rights.
Yes, the guy who founded HRW and served as their chair for 20 years sure as hell has a solid view of what Human Rights Watch is about.Robert Bernstein?...
As usual you just reject it simply because you don't like the content.
Not at all, HRW criticizes the massive rights abusers, and in this case Israeli abuses are way more massive then Palestinian.So you admit that like you HRW doesn't want to criticize massive rights abusers.[/url]
Your biases are ridiculously obvious when its noted that Israeli killed 551 children in the same time that Palestinians killed 51 Israelis yet you continue to claim that Palestinians are to blame for the violence, despite living under a 50 year long, illegal occupation.
Just as you blame Palestinians for Israel killing 3000 Palestinians.
The numbers don't lie, Israel is way worse a rights abuser then Palestinians.
Bullshit. Even the Palestinian people know Hamas and the PA abuse them more than Israel.Not at all, HRW criticizes the massive rights abusers...
But you will go to ridiculous lengths to avoid criticizing the Palestinian leadership, Hamas, or the 46% of Palestinians who support attacks on Israeli civilians.
And yes, Palestinians are 100% to blame for the violence they commit. They are the ones with governmental policies supporting attacks on Israelis and the attackers are the ones who chose to carry out those attacks. Palestinian attacks pre-date 1967 and they pre-date 1948. They began with attacks on Jews who were long time residents because other Jews were legal immigrants living on legally purchased land.
And Hamas is a terrorist entity that is completely to blame for their terrorism and they are completely to blame for their refusal to accept a permanent peace.
There are plenty of things to blame Israel for but nowhere near what you like to pretend. Sadly you see the world in black and white. I don`t mean you live by morals but simply believe everything Israel does is evil and everything Palestinians do is good.
Israel has been occupying Palestine for half a century.Bullshit. Even the Palestinian people know Hamas and the PA abuse them more than Israel.
.
That is the reason there is still fighting.
HRW clearly states that Israel commits more war crimes.
Remember the B'teselem numbers, Israel killed 3071 while Palestinians killed 51.
The numbers don't lie.
You do.
Palestinians have been trying to destroy the Jewish presence since at least 1919. The policy of Hamas is no different than the policy of the Palestinians and other Arabs at that time.Israel has been occupying Palestine for half a century.
That is the reason there is still fighting....
At any time the Palestinians can change their objective and Israel will be happy to agree to peace. The horrible part is that if Abbas had accepted Olmert's offer (or even made a counter-offer with a slightly different map) Olmert would be seen as a hero to Israelis while Palestinians would have seen Abbas as a traitor.
p.s. There is nothing illegal about the occupation. Israel signed a peace deal with Jordan (and Egypt) that ceded control of the West Bank and Gaza to Israel until the Palestinians agree to a peace deal. You can argue that settlement activity is illegal but the occupation itself is completely legal.
You know, you really are starting to sound galsegin or one of the other Muslim bashers on this board. For them its Muslim=terrorist, for you its Palestinian=terrorist.Palestinians have been trying to destroy the Jewish presence since at least 1919. The policy of Hamas is no different than the policy of the Palestinians and other Arabs at that time.
Its no different.
Claiming that Palestinians tried to 'destroy' another people is just hate speech. Prior to the zionist movement, which is a colonial movement with the goal of taking over all of historic Palestine, the lands were more multicultural and more peaceful.
And regardless of what you think happened 100 years ago, Israel has been occupying Palestine now for half a century.
The only destroying has been that of the country of Palestine.
Just enter the 21st century and give them equal rights already.
It is historic and modern fact that it's the goal of the Palestinian leadership. The Mufti of Jerusalem preached it in the 20's to 40's and Hamas preaches it today....
Claiming that Palestinians tried to 'destroy' another people is just hate speech....
And yes, Israel has been occupying the West Bank for 50 years, mainly because the Palestinian leadership refuse to accept a permanent peace deal with Israel. Why would they simply give land to the Palestinians when the Palestinian leaders vow to destroy Israel and refer to Israeli towns as Palestinian and occupied?
And speaking of entering the 21st century, you should get over your colonial aspirations of telling the Palestinians what is good for them when they outright reject your idea.
Your team already killed the two state solution, as Germany just announced:It is historic and modern fact that it's the goal of the Palestinian leadership. The Mufti of Jerusalem preached it in the 20's to 40's and Hamas preaches it today.
And yes, Israel has been occupying the West Bank for 50 years, mainly because the Palestinian leadership refuse to accept a permanent peace deal with Israel. Why would they simply give land to the Palestinians when the Palestinian leaders vow to destroy Israel and refer to Israeli towns as Palestinian and occupied?
And speaking of entering the 21st century, you should get over your colonial aspirations of telling the Palestinians what is good for them when they outright reject your idea.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...tlement-expansion-warns-of-one-state-reality/while settlement construction in violation of international law is not the only obstacle to a two‑state solution, each new housing unit cements a one‑state reality in which the Palestinians continue to be denied the full enjoyment of their political rights.
That's what Israelis are saying as well.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/1.814883
I know you're happy with the present one state, apartheid solution, but you are among the few.
It's amazing that Hamas rejects the concept of peace but you look to blame Israel.Your team....
And Hamas has the exact same goal of destroying Israel as the Palestinians who first started terror attacks in 1919.
It doesn't matter what Hamas says, they are locked in the world's largest open air prison and held captive by their apartheid occupiers.It's amazing that Hamas rejects the concept of peace but you look to blame Israel.
And Hamas has the exact same goal of destroying Israel as the Palestinians who first started terror attacks in 1919.
Even saying they will stop terrorism, as they did and have recently, doesn't even change your opinion of them.
So why should it matter what they say?
By the way, I notice there's a good opportunity for you to make edit a documentary on the issues.
You should give it a try.
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/
Oh, and stop supporting those terrorists at the JDL.
Sad that you are okay with Hamas' terrorism and rejectionism. How do you suggest peace be agreed upon is one of the two major Palestinian parties refuses to be involved (or major factions of the other party)?It doesn't matter what Hamas says,
You are a joke. The JDL may have been listed as a terrorist entity in 2001 but they aren't now. they are FORMER terrorists. Hamas is still listed by the US, EU, and Canada. Do you realize how stupid it looks when you claim Hamas aren't terrorists but the JDL are?Oh, and stop supporting those terrorists at the JDL.
Hamas has promised to stop terrorism and has been active as terrorists for a couple of years now.Sad that you are okay with Hamas' terrorism and rejectionism. How do you suggest peace be agreed upon is one of the two major Palestinian parties refuses to be involved (or major factions of the other party)?
See above.You are a joke. The JDL may have been listed as a terrorist entity in 2001 but they aren't now. they are FORMER terrorists. Hamas is still listed by the US, EU, and Canada. Do you realize how stupid it looks when you claim Hamas aren't terrorists but the JDL are?
Hypocrite.
Yes they have been active terrorists in the past couple years and I would be happy if they actually follow through on their promise.Hamas has promised to stop terrorism and has been active as terrorists for a couple of years now.
p.s. The JDL hasn't been active terrorists for a decade or two. If Hamas does that then I will happily call them FORMER terrorists.
Ok, list the last Hamas terrorist action and we can start a clock for you.Yes they have been active terrorists in the past couple years and I would be happy if they actually follow through on their promise.
p.s. The JDL hasn't been active terrorists for a decade or two. If Hamas does that then I will happily call them FORMER terrorists.
