Saudi Arabia financed a dry run of 9/11 in 1999

Frankfooter

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p.s. Do you find it hypocritical that you claim to oppose colonialism but promote the exact same values when saying you know better than the Palestinians?
The two state is impossible now, it may be their preference but the polls show that they know it won't happen either.
The one state solution is already there, but the problem is its apartheid.
Since there is zero chance the two state solution you're stuck with the one state solution.

The status quo is the apartheid one state solution, are you really satisfied with that?
 

basketcase

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Now you take the word of the military on human rights issues?...
Wait. I thought you were the guy who said he reads all sides.

And yes, when I want an expert opinion on military matters, an international panel of generals is a good place to go. You're just upset that they won't applaud Hamas for their terror rockets or hiding in the civilian population.
 

basketcase

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The two state is impossible now, it may be their preference but the polls show that they know it won't happen either.
...
And more of your colonial mentality trying to force the Palestinians into something they detest.

The Two State solution is the only solution supported by the UN, the EU, the US, Canada, and even the Arab League. You quote fringe UN bodies when you like what they say. Why do you disagree with the UN on this? And why are you so afraid to condemn Hamas' policies that favour destruction and war over peace?
 

Frankfooter

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Wait. I thought you were the guy who said he reads all sides.

And yes, when I want an expert opinion on military matters, an international panel of generals is a good place to go. You're just upset that they won't applaud Hamas for their terror rockets or hiding in the civilian population.
Wow, so you really are taking the words of the IDF and their pals over the legit reports from HRW?
Does that earn you the Hasbara Troll t-shirt?
 

Frankfooter

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basketcase

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Wow, so you really are taking the words of the IDF and their pals over the legit reports from HRW?
Does that earn you the Hasbara Troll t-shirt?
You are only rejecting those military experts because they completely undermine your bullshit.

And speaking of troll, how come you continually ignore it when HRW trashes the PA and Hamas?
 

basketcase

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How does that when the nuclear armed power that runs the apartheid occupation/colonization says this:

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-israel-netanyahu-settlements-20170828-story.html
That isn't even English.

Considering Abbas has already agreed in concept to land swaps, the major settlement blocks will become part of Israel. The only question is which ones and what land will be swapped for it.

Amazing how you criticize Israel for their plans of a two state peace yet refuse to criticize Hamas for their outright rejection of permanent peace.
 

Frankfooter

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You are only rejecting those military experts because they completely undermine your bullshit.

And speaking of troll, how come you continually ignore it when HRW trashes the PA and Hamas?
I fully support the HRW criticisms of all sources, they are a trustworthy sources, and I'm glad that you quoted them.
Now the question is why you accept their criticisms of Palestinians but ignore their criticisms of Israelis.

HRW says Israel is likely guilty of multiple war crimes, do you accept this criticism?
And if they are guilty of war crimes, why won't you support both sides being held to the law?
 

Frankfooter

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That isn't even English.

Considering Abbas has already agreed in concept to land swaps, the major settlement blocks will become part of Israel. The only question is which ones and what land will be swapped for it.

Amazing how you criticize Israel for their plans of a two state peace yet refuse to criticize Hamas for their outright rejection of permanent peace.
Can you post where Abbas has stated that Palestinians are willing to give up all settlements and then can you show where on the map they would get equal land?
If you can't, then you have to admit this claim is just more nonsense coming from you.

Your continual blame on Hamas for being occupied is really quite pathetic.
The only side that can end the occupation and apartheid rule is the side with all the guns and nukes.
 

basketcase

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Can you post where Abbas has stated that Palestinians are willing to give up all settlements...
You keep referring to the Palestine Papers. Did you never read them?

And yes, I continue to blame a terrorist government who refuse peace for their terrorism and rejection of peace. Your refusal to do so shows you are a complete fraud.
 

basketcase

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Frankfooter

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Yet you won't listen to what they say here about Hamas or the PA. The most recent:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/08/29/palestine-crackdown-journalists-activists


They detail human rights abuses against Palestinians far worse than anything Israel has done but since they don't help your hateful agenda you pretend they don't exist.
A crackdown on journalists is worse then anything Israel has done?
That's hilarious.

Here's the summary from their periodic review, do you think Palestinian infractions there are really worse then Israel's?
Israel’s abuse of human rights within the Occupied Palestinian Territories further deteriorated since its last Universal Periodic Review in 2012. This submission covers five categories of systematic Israeli violations during this period, many of which have recurred consistently over the past 50 years of prolonged military occupation: (1) unlawful killings and war crimes without accountability; (2) illegal settlements and institutional discrimination; (3) forced displacement; (4) prolonged closure of Gaza and unjustified movement restrictions in the West Bank; and (5) abusive detention. While the submission focuses on violations by Israel, as the state under review, Human Rights Watch has documented severe rights violations by the Palestinian Authority, Hamas and Palestinian armed groups.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/29/submission-universal-periodic-review-israel
 

basketcase

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A crackdown on journalists is worse then anything Israel has done?...
Just the most recent. The fact that they rarely comment on Hamas shows their founder is correct.

And yes, I am willing to side with Canada and the EU who consider Israel a friend and Hamas a terrorist organization.
 

basketcase

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A few other details from HRW's most recent report that you will choose to ignore.

Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and Gaza restricted freedom of expression, tortured and ill-treated detainees, and in Gaza executed at least four people, including one person accused of same-sex relations.

Palestinian armed groups launched 20 rockets indiscriminately into Israel from Hamas-controlled Gaza in 2016 as of October 31, in violation of the laws of war. Hamas authorities have failed to prosecute anyone for alleged serious crimes committed during Israel’s 2014 military campaign in Gaza.

The Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas arrested activists who criticized their leaders, security forces or policies, some of whom alleged torture in detention. The Independent Commission for Human Rights in Palestine, a statutory commission charged with monitoring human rights compliance by the Palestinian authorities, received 150 complaints of torture and ill-treatment by PA security forces and 204 such complaints against Hamas security forces as of October 31.

Hamas and Palestinian Armed Groups

In 2016 Palestinian armed groups launched 20 rockets into Israel from Gaza as of October 31, causing no casualties but generating fear and disruption in affected cities and towns. These rockets cannot be accurately aimed at military objectives and amount to indiscriminate or deliberate attacks on civilians when directed at Israeli population centers, as was the case in many instances. A UN Commission of Inquiry last year found that such attacks are serious violations of the laws of war. Hamas, which has internal control over Gaza, is responsible for policing the border and the territory it controls and acting to ensure that unlawful attacks do not take place.

The Hamas internal security agency and police allegedly tortured or ill-treated 204 people in their custody as of October 31, according to complaints received by the Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR), the statutory Palestinian rights body.

In Gaza, whose laws differ somewhat from the laws in the West Bank, having “unnatural intercourse” of a sexual nature, understood to include same-sex relationships, is a crime punishable by up to 10 years in prison. In February 2016, Hamas’s armed wing executed one of its fighters ostensibly for “behavioral and moral violations,” which Hamas officials acknowledged meant same-sex relations.

In addition, Gaza’s civilian authorities executed three men convicted of murder in May, amid concerns of due process violations.

Palestinian Authority

Complaints of torture and ill-treatment by West Bank Palestinian Authority security services persisted. The ICHR reported 150 complaints in 2016 as of October 31.

PA security services arrested activists for political criticism, and some of those arrested alleged mistreatment in detention. In arresting, abusing, and prosecuting Palestinian journalists and activists engaging in peaceful speech under long-standing laws whose penalties include incarceration, the PA violated its obligations under international treaties, ratified in 2014, respecting free expression and detainee rights.
 

Frankfooter

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A few other details from HRW's most recent report that you will choose to ignore.

Palestinian authorities in the West Bank and Gaza restricted freedom of expression, tortured and ill-treated detainees, and in Gaza executed at least four people, including one person accused of same-sex relations.

Palestinian armed groups launched 20 rockets indiscriminately into Israel from Hamas-controlled Gaza in 2016 as of October 31, in violation of the laws of war. Hamas authorities have failed to prosecute anyone for alleged serious crimes committed during Israel’s 2014 military campaign in Gaza.

The Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas arrested activists who criticized their leaders, security forces or policies, some of whom alleged torture in detention. The Independent Commission for Human Rights in Palestine, a statutory commission charged with monitoring human rights compliance by the Palestinian authorities, received 150 complaints of torture and ill-treatment by PA security forces and 204 such complaints against Hamas security forces as of October 31.

Hamas and Palestinian Armed Groups

In 2016 Palestinian armed groups launched 20 rockets into Israel from Gaza as of October 31, causing no casualties but generating fear and disruption in affected cities and towns. These rockets cannot be accurately aimed at military objectives and amount to indiscriminate or deliberate attacks on civilians when directed at Israeli population centers, as was the case in many instances. A UN Commission of Inquiry last year found that such attacks are serious violations of the laws of war. Hamas, which has internal control over Gaza, is responsible for policing the border and the territory it controls and acting to ensure that unlawful attacks do not take place.

The Hamas internal security agency and police allegedly tortured or ill-treated 204 people in their custody as of October 31, according to complaints received by the Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR), the statutory Palestinian rights body.

In Gaza, whose laws differ somewhat from the laws in the West Bank, having “unnatural intercourse” of a sexual nature, understood to include same-sex relationships, is a crime punishable by up to 10 years in prison. In February 2016, Hamas’s armed wing executed one of its fighters ostensibly for “behavioral and moral violations,” which Hamas officials acknowledged meant same-sex relations.

In addition, Gaza’s civilian authorities executed three men convicted of murder in May, amid concerns of due process violations.

Palestinian Authority

Complaints of torture and ill-treatment by West Bank Palestinian Authority security services persisted. The ICHR reported 150 complaints in 2016 as of October 31.

PA security services arrested activists for political criticism, and some of those arrested alleged mistreatment in detention. In arresting, abusing, and prosecuting Palestinian journalists and activists engaging in peaceful speech under long-standing laws whose penalties include incarceration, the PA violated its obligations under international treaties, ratified in 2014, respecting free expression and detainee rights.
And lets hope that the ICC charges all those who committed war crimes, on both sides.
(A statement which of course you refuse to endorse, don't you?)

And which of those do you think is worse then this?
In the single bloodiest escalation during the review period, Israeli forces killed 1,462 Palestinian civilians in Gaza, including 551 children, in July-August 2014 according to UN figures. Many of these attacks amounted to violations of international humanitarian law, some war crimes, including: the targeting of civilians and apparent civilian structures; indiscriminate attacks on civilians, including the use of weapons with wide area affects; and the failure to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/29/submission-universal-periodic-review-israel

Which of those Palestinian acts do you think are worse then killing 551 children?
 

basketcase

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...

Which of those Palestinian acts do you think are worse then killing 551 children?
You mean other than committing terrorism, starting a war, and hiding deep within the civilian population while doing so, causing the deaths of 551 children?

Hamas realizes they can't win a straight up war with Israel. If they had any semblance of morals they would endorse peace instead of starting wars then hiding behind children.
 

Frankfooter

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You mean other than committing terrorism, starting a war, and hiding deep within the civilian population while doing so, causing the deaths of 551 children?

Hamas realizes they can't win a straight up war with Israel. If they had any semblance of morals they would endorse peace instead of starting wars then hiding behind children.
Israel started that attack.
The worst you can accuse Hamas of is 'hiding'?
And you think because Hamas 'hid' Israel had to kill 551 children?

That is just so ridiculous, I can't believe you even typed it.

This must be what the IDF must have been thinking, according to your claims:
OMG! Hamas is hiding! Quick, kill some children!
 

basketcase

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Israel started that attack....
Gee. I thought it was Hamas that kidnapped three Israeli kids, burnt them, and then started launching hundreds of what HRW describes as weapons of terror when Israel dared try to search for the kids. The whole time that Hamas and their people were launching terror rockets they were doing so from deep withing the civilian population, using churches full of shelter seekers, schools, and hospitals as military infrastructure. If Hamas didn't hide behind civilians, zero civilians would have been killed.

The kidnapping and murder of those kids is 100% Hamas' fault. The launching of terror rockets was 100% the choice of Hamas and the other factions. The decision to use the civilian population as protection was 100% the choice of Hamas. Israel had no choice but to protect their people from terrorism and according to military experts they went far further than any army in modern history to protect the Gaza civilians.

And for a guy who claims to be pro-peace, it is sad that instead of criticizing Hamas for their rejection of permanent peace you sit here justifying their terrorism.
 

Frankfooter

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Gee. I thought it was Hamas that kidnapped three Israeli kids, burnt them, and then started launching hundreds of what HRW describes as weapons of terror when Israel dared try to search for the kids. The whole time that Hamas and their people were launching terror rockets they were doing so from deep withing the civilian population, using churches full of shelter seekers, schools, and hospitals as military infrastructure. If Hamas didn't hide behind civilians, zero civilians would have been killed.

The kidnapping and murder of those kids is 100% Hamas' fault. The launching of terror rockets was 100% the choice of Hamas and the other factions. The decision to use the civilian population as protection was 100% the choice of Hamas. Israel had no choice but to protect their people from terrorism and according to military experts they went far further than any army in modern history to protect the Gaza civilians.

And for a guy who claims to be pro-peace, it is sad that instead of criticizing Hamas for their rejection of permanent peace you sit here justifying their terrorism.
The kidnapping, which didn't happen in Gaza, was no excuse for bombing Gaza and most likely didn't even involve Hamas.
From wiki:
No evidence of Hamas involvement was offered by Israeli authorities at the time.[33][121][139] High-ranking members of Hamas denied the group had any involvement in the incident,[140] and ex-Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin doubted Hamas had any involvement.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel–Gaza_conflict
The ICC is presently investigating the war crimes you celebrate.

Israel chose to bomb Gaza, nobody forced them.
Nobody forced them to kill hundreds of children.

That is just the logical conclusion of the type of racial demonization that you continue to spread here.

By the way, I note that the JDL is labelled as a terrorist organization.
Will you condemn them and all those who support them?
he FBI designated the JDL’s U.S.-based parent a terrorist group in 2001 after violent attacks by members in the United States and abroad.
https://nowtoronto.com/news/jewish-defense-league-canada-member-charged-with-hate-crime/
 
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