Iran nukes

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Considering your obsession with nukes, why don't you care about Saudi Arabia's attempts to buy nukes?
The problem is Iran's obsession with nukes. Saudi is only interested in nukes because they expect Iran to complete their project (just like India and Pakistan have them because the other has them).

And the reason I don't worry about Israel is they have had nukes since before the NPT existed so would have been exempted as an existing power if they signed, they have proven they won't use them even when Syrian tanks were close to rolling on Tel Aviv, and they are a functioning democracy.
 

basketcase

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Didn't you get the whole "trust but verify" memo? Of course the west is suspicious. But the cold hard facts are, once you master the nuclear fuel cycle, then building a fission bomb is not that hard. Heck, if someone gave me a chunk of HE uranium and internet access I might be able to build one. Many, many countries have the capability to build a nuclear bomb. Let me list some of them for you:

Canada, Mexico, Brazil, S. Africa, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Australia, NZ, Ukraine, several Stans, most western European nations, Turkey, Poland, Czech Republic, Solvenia, Bulgaria, Hungary etc etc etc etc....
Again, you are justifying protections being forced on Iran (as long as they choose to remain in the NPT).


p.s. The many of those other countries you listed (including Canada) do not have enrichment capabilities.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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The problem is Iran's obsession with nukes. Saudi is only interested in nukes because they expect Iran to complete their project (just like India and Pakistan have them because the other has them).
What obsession with nukes?
The have reactors and may have had a program when the US/Israel were threatening to attack but are now NPT signatories, unlike Israel, and abiding by the treaty.
You are the one with the obsession about Iranians.

And the reason I don't worry about Israel is they have had nukes since before the NPT existed so would have been exempted as an existing power if they signed, they have proven they won't use them even when Syrian tanks were close to rolling on Tel Aviv, and they are a functioning democracy.
1) Israel stole nuclear material from the US
2) Israel stole nuclear tech from the US
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/15/truth-israels-secret-nuclear-arsenal
3) Israel considered nuking Egypt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...etonate-nuclear-bomb-egypt-risked-losing-six/
4) Israel tried to sell nukes to apartheid South Africa
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

They've only proven they aren't trustworthy as an ally.
 

basketcase

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...

They've only proven they aren't trustworthy as an ally.
50+ years with nukes and never even hinted at using them.

And considering the UN is the organization constantly monitoring Iran's nuclear capabilities, I guess you consider them obsessed as well.
 

Frankfooter

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50+ years with nukes and never even hinted at using them.

And considering the UN is the organization constantly monitoring Iran's nuclear capabilities, I guess you consider them obsessed as well.
And Iran?
50 years without nukes, threatening anyone with nukes, stealing nukes, trying to sell nukes to apartheid countries or starting a single war.
And they are NPT signatories and abiding by the treaty.

Sounds like Iran is way more trustworthy then Israel.
 

basketcase

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And Iran?....
Easy one. They are developing a nuclear program that worries the UN, their pseudo-parliament chants about death to other countries, they openly support terror groups, and their government is a totalitarian religious oligarchy. No comparison.
 

Frankfooter

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Easy one. They are developing a nuclear program that worries the UN,
No, they have been repeatedly reported as abiding by the strenuous treaty the UN helped put in place.


their pseudo-parliament chants about death to other countries,
More complaining about evil countries that talk the nasty talk.
'Cuz really, what's worse, apartheid or 'chanting'.
 

basketcase

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Sadly you realize the IAEA imposed regulations because they are worried about Iran's actions but you can't find yourself being in any way critical.

And yes, when a totalitarian religious oligarchy promises to destroy other countries while arming terrorists and developing a suspicious nuclear program it is worth complaining (unless you have a victorian/frankfooter view that Muslims aren't capable of moral behaviour).
 

Frankfooter

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Sadly you realize the IAEA imposed regulations because they are worried about Iran's actions but you can't find yourself being in any way critical.
Why be critical when they signed the NPT and are holding to it?
When will Israel sign onto the NPT, why are Israel and North Korea the only real holdouts right now?

And yes, when a totalitarian religious oligarchy promises to destroy other countries
And yet you have no problems with Trump threatening to nuke North Korea, nor for Netanyahu to attack Iran.
 

basketcase

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Why be critical when they signed the NPT and are holding to it?
Hmm. The UN enforced additional obligations because of their suspicions; they are the ones being critical. Iran has also been ruled non-compliant by the UN/IAEA on several occasions. They might be complying right now after being subject to significant international sanctions but that's not what their history shows.


When will Israel sign onto the NPT, why are Israel and North Korea the only real holdouts right now?....
Are you saying India and Pakistan are NPT signatories? And I know details aren't your thing but North Korea was a signatory. If Israel chooses to sign the NPT they will do so as existing nuclear powers as they have been since before the NPT existed.
 

basketcase

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...
And yet you have no problems with Trump threatening to nuke North Korea, nor for Netanyahu to attack Iran.
Why do you insist on making up complete crap? Are you incapable of honest discussion or is it you know your causes are that indefensible?



p.s. You are an absolute hypocrite because you were just saying that threats from Iran towards the US and Israel don't count because they are just talk but somehow you think American and Israeli talk is horrible.
 

Frankfooter

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Hmm. The UN enforced additional obligations because of their suspicions; they are the ones being critical. Iran has also been ruled non-compliant by the UN/IAEA on several occasions. They might be complying right now after being subject to significant international sanctions but that's not what their history shows.
The additional protocols were voluntary, not enforced. Iran cancelled them after the US didn't hold their side of the bargain the first time, then the US tried to claim the additional protocols were mandatory.




Are you saying India and Pakistan are NPT signatories? And I know details aren't your thing but North Korea was a signatory. If Israel chooses to sign the NPT they will do so as existing nuclear powers as they have been since before the NPT existed.
You're right, my bad. Israel is aligned with India, Pakistan, North Korea and Sudan as non-NPT countries. Quite a dignified crowd to hang out with.
And of those Israel is probably closest in attitude to Pakistan, since they've also tried to sell the bomb.

Which puts Iran one step morally ahead, as a non-nuclear state abiding by the NPT.
Thanks for making that clear.
 

Frankfooter

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Why do you insist on making up complete crap? Are you incapable of honest discussion or is it you know your causes are that indefensible?
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/trump-threatens-destroy-north-korea-170919140528723.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/07/2013714214528446397.html

There you go, reports backing my statements.
Why do you have no problem with Israel and Trump threatening wars?


p.s. You are an absolute hypocrite because you were just saying that threats from Iran towards the US and Israel don't count because they are just talk but somehow you think American and Israeli talk is horrible.
What threats?
Iran has never directly threatened the US or Israel to my knowledge/
The closest Iran came is when they said that Israel would be 'wiped off the map', but they didn't say they were going to do it.
And before you look, yes, that is the more correct translation of the statement.

You, on the other hand, have been caught here lying twice now.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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Then why did the international community demand a massive reduction in centrifuges? I guess you know better than the IAEA though.

To extend the time it would take to make HE uranium geez. :frusty: The more centrifuges you have the faster you can enrich uranium.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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Again, you are justifying protections being forced on Iran (as long as they choose to remain in the NPT).


p.s. The many of those other countries you listed (including Canada) do not have enrichment capabilities.

How do you know that??, you are certainly wrong about Canada :

https://cna.ca/technology/energy/uranium-processing/

WRONG AGAIN!!!

I don't mind the conditions on Iran, I think they are a bit onerous, but they should be forced to prove themselves over time, and give the opportunity to do so.
 

basketcase

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To extend the time it would take to make HE uranium geez. :frusty: The more centrifuges you have the faster you can enrich uranium.
I find it amazing that you keep arguing in support on the IAEA restrictions on Iran.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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Thank you for admitting that the world sees Iran's nuclear program as a thinly veiled attempt at nuclear weapons.
No if they did not have any belief in their willingness to abide, then they would not have signed the deal. But they do not discount the possibility that a fanatical regime could take control and resume the program which is why they want some reaction time.
 
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