I'm bumping Oagre's post this is what you should do.
Don't get involved in a mess by attempting "self-help" solutions.
my landlord took my girlfriends money and won't let her move in
- Thread starter boogiewoogie
- Start date
Don't get involved in a mess by attempting "self-help" solutions.
Yeah, I disagree with the police there. Even if what the guy said is true, she paid her rent. He has no right to take her money, then bar her entry. He may have a right to take last month's rent for damages depending on if that was in the tenancy agreement. If not, he has the right to take her to court for damages. But he still shouldn't be able to deny her entry. Which basically makes what he did theft, as he took her money and gave nothing in return.
If she has proof of payment, I really don't see how the landlord could hope to pull this off.
Why would you not sign a lease when you pay first and last WTF. Sadly I think you will find the guy does not even OWN that apt . I think you have been scammed.If you can verify this, then it becomes fraud. So you can engage the cops as well. Do you have any ID etc from this?
WTF?!?!
The ll decided not to rent to her before she moved in. There is no tenancy. If she forcibly moves in, it's B&E and she will do time in jail.
Sure the ll in Small Claims Court.
I'd listen to Wilbur and Oagre here (also assuming we have been provided with all accurate info here).
Also, an E-Mail money transfer includes a comment box, so there may have been a "for 1st and last months' rent" message in that email transfer.
Hopefully, Nottyboi's suspicion that the "landlord" is just a con-artist and not a property owner is just that.
Also, an E-Mail money transfer includes a comment box, so there may have been a "for 1st and last months' rent" message in that email transfer.
Hopefully, Nottyboi's suspicion that the "landlord" is just a con-artist and not a property owner is just that.
Can a lease be revoked before the tenant moves in if it's been signed and the rent has been paid? If he's still in possession of her funds on the day the lease begins I'd think it's her home and she's entitled to call a locksmith to change the locks.
And how exactly did he revoke it? Did he send her a registered letter or serve documents on her? I'm not sure a verbal conversation cuts it particularly if the lease has language in it around what sort of notice is required to terminate it.
However, you can take further legal action to enforce the judgment.
I'm sure you don't mean to imply that actual active judges (not retired judges acting as arbitrators, like your favourate TV program) like being disrespected any more when they are presiding over small claims than they do when they are presiding in other courts.
in Canada collecting judgments can be impossible. this means filling more more forms and pay more fees
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/small-claims-court-codina-attorney-general-naqvi-1.3949649
He took rent money in exchange for providing at least two month's of accommodation in an apartment. Now he won't let her occupy it. That's exactly the sort of thing the Landlord Tenant Tribunal adjudicates. But obviously the girlfriend will have a much stronger case the more paperwork and other evidence she can produce to establish the money was paid for rent. Unlike most tenants, she can't prove tenancy by occupancy.
Based on the dealings my landlording friends have had with the Tribunal, they do not favour diverting rent money to other purposes, no matter how justifiable. But until there's a statement of costs from this neighbour, there's nothing to justify. Recovering costs and damages is entirely separate from rent payment, and if she is prevented from occupying the apartment, she can and should ask the Tribunal to order her money refunded.
If the person is without resources needless to say wherever you are it can be hard to collect. However, in this case he supposedly owns an apartment, and he took the money. If he doesn't actually own the apartment then unless there is some strange twist to this story that is criminal fraud.
In Manitoba they have a Landlord Tenant Board (I think that's what it's called) and they mediate or arbitrate disputes between landlords and tenants. There must something like that here. Back in the day my fridge was making a loud noise when ever the motor switched on. Often disturbing my sleep. After many requests that got me nowhere, I finally said fix it now or I'll send my rent cheque to the Landlord Tenant Board. That got results.
Not legally. But I be thinking that breaking locks and moving in is taking a BIG gamble that there isn't some technicality that you have overlooked. Because if you're wrong, you're doing a couple of months in the slammer and you've got a brand new criminal record.
Sure. If the judgment debtor is impecunious. If he has a job, a salary or owns property, it's a matter of filling in the forms, giving them to the sheriff and waiting for the cheque to arrive. The sheriff will garnish salary or seize and sell property and give you a fat-ass cheque from the proceeds. And the judgment debtor pays all your fees and the sheriff's costs because he caused it all.
IF there was a signed lease, or offer-to-lease, that accompanied the 1st and last months' rent, then yes, it can't be terminated unless one of the lease's covenants or provisions has been breached. In most cases, there would be time allowed to cure the default.
For residential leases, the landlord has less power. I don't think he can oust someone so quickly. Surely a notice period applies.
Canada-Man, I've collected from defaulting tenants, but in a commercial setting.
You can apply to the court on a default or successful judgement, for a writ of seizure and sale, or garnish wages.
I had a writ that was applied to a tenant guarantor's proceeds from the sale of his house.
Success is not the norm. You do need some luck. (I have a settlement out of court made AT the court house, but promised payments ceased and now I have to try to find assets to seize).
If the landlord has a legitimate gripe about the fence, they should deal with that in small claims court. Not by deceiving a prospective tenant into handing over first and last month's rent. Totally out of line.
It's amazing what can be accomplished with a strongly worded letter from a lawyer. Tell your girlfriend she can give me a call or text anytime at 647-360-7182.
It's amazing what can be accomplished with a strongly worded letter from a lawyer. Tell your girlfriend she can give me a call or text anytime at 647-360-7182.
Yeah could definitely be this type of scam, and if so, she's probably out of luck in recovering the funds.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/how-to-avoid-online-rental-scams-1.3474445
Online rental scams: How to avoid being conned out of your cash
'Fraudsters will follow the crowd and prey on people in a pinch,' says sharing economy expert
By Lucas Powers, CBC News Posted: Mar 04, 2016 11:19 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 04, 2016 11:45 AM ET
Kit Pullen was unwittingly pulled into an online rental gone awry after someone put the home he lives in up for rent on Kijiji.
Kit Pullen was unwittingly pulled into an online rental gone awry after someone put the home he lives in up for rent on Kijiji. (Roger Dubois/CBC)
'Career criminal' uses Airbnb listing on Craigslist to scam potential renters
'It's been horrible,' says woman whose belongings left in Ottawa driveway
Mover's load dropped in Ottawa man's driveway overnight
Condo rental scam snares $1,300 from Winnipeg couple
5 Ontarians charged in alleged cottage rental fraud
Winnipeg woman's house sale ad used for online rental scam
Student rentals: how to avoid online scams
Vancouver tenant's Craigslist scam hits prospective renters
External Links
U.S. Federal Trade Commision: Rental listing scams
MoneySense: Rental scams: How to avoid losing money
(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external links.)
Two Ontario strangers made headlines after an online rental went wrong this week. The bizarre incident put a spotlight on what fraud experts say is an "evolving" world of scams in the online economy.
According to Nikki Wilson, the alleged caper began when she tried to rent a house advertised on Kijiji. But it turns out that somebody already lived there — that somebody being Kit Pullen — and the Ottawa house certainly wasn't available for rent.
In the end, Wilson was out $900 and Pullen got a mountainous pile of someone else's stuff dumped on the driveway of his home.
Rental scams aren't new, but as more of these deals move online, would-be renters need to be especially vigilant.
"There's an awful lot of this going on," says Daniel Williams, senior fraud specialist with the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre in Ottawa.
Rental 'scam' led to mover's overnight drop in Ottawa driveway
Woman whose belongings left in Ottawa driveway now 'very untrusting'
Airbnb-Craigslist rental scam dupes Vancouverites out of $1,000
There have been 139 reports of online rental scams to the centre since Jan. 1. That figure likely reflects only a fraction of all the incidents occurring across the country, he adds.
The U.S. Federal Trade Commission calls the use of fraudulent ads for rental properties a "hijacked ad" scam — when a fraudster offers a rental property that, in reality, they have no connection to. The other most common type is "phantom rentals," which as you can probably guess involve a property that doesn't exist.
Kit Pullen driveway house contents missing stuff left Ottawa Parkglen Drive March 2 2016
Nikki Wilson had her belongings delivered to an Ottawa home she thought she would be renting. She says she lost $900 in the ruse. (CBC News)
Most people assume they're immune to the clever con artists peddling sweet deals on rental homes, condos, apartments and vacation spots.
But "scams are evolving," Williams says, especially with the growth of the sharing economy.
So here are a few tips to keep your cash away from crooks.
'Verify, verify, verify'
"Our main mantra here is verify, verify, verify. Really understand who you're dealing with," says Williams.
This might seem like plain ol' common sense, but it can be difficult — especially since it's so easy to fake a sheen of legitimacy online.
The truth is that the only way to have any security when renting a property online is to track down someone who has rented from the same person or company in the past.
"Anything else is a leap of faith, really. There are so many ways a fraudster can present themselves as a property owner," Williams explains.
In some instances, you might want to push the renter to provide contact information for someone they have previously dealt with. This might not always be possible for any number of reasons, but it's worth a shot, he says.
Keep your cash close
Scammers will almost always ask for money up front, like a security deposit or first and last month's rent. If you're not sure about where it's going, don't send it. Money sent via wire service or e-transfers will be as good as gone.
Whenever possible, try to make payments with a credit card. This isn't always realistic, but there are scenarios where it makes sense, like with many vacation rentals.
"Credit card companies have tremendous power to get your money back to you most of the time, which isn't the case for basically every other means of payment," says Williams.
Check the place out — if you can
It's always a good idea to physically see a property before any money changes hands. This isn't always possible, though, and sometimes it's still not enough to know you're being scammed.
Some con artists will go to great lengths to appear legitimate, staging elaborate charades to dupe renters.
CBC's Go Public reported last month on a Vancouver couple who were taken for $1,000 by a career criminal in a ploy that involved both Airbnb and Craigslist.
Play
Airbnb rental scam
JUMP TO BEGINNING OF THE TRACK SKIP BACK 15 SECONDS WATCH SKIP FORWARD 30 SECONDS ADJUST VOLUME 00:00 01:49 SHARE FULLSCREEN
Airbnb rental scam1:49
They aren't alone. Maxim Budnick is a 27-year-old professional model who works all over the world and moves often. He's rented or sublet 26 properties in the last three years, nearly all of them found online.
In other words, he's a seasoned renter with a keen eye for shady offerings.
But during one move from Bushwick to a Lower East Side sublet in New York City last year, he was conned out of $2,100 in a convoluted ruse.
The arrangement was orchestrated by a couple using false identities and a third person posing as a landlord. Then the three people disappeared.
"It really seemed legitimate," he recalls. "I even walked through the apartment a few times with them. I couldn't have imagined they'd go through all that. It's crazy, but honestly I'd bet it happens a lot."
Slow down and know the market
Online rental scams thrive when space is at a premium and people feel pressure to pounce on opportunity — for example in hot real estate markets or in high season at trendy getaway spots.
"That's where you might overlook your gut instincts about an online offer," says Sunil Johal, policy director at the Mowat Centre in Toronto.
"Fraudsters will follow the crowd and prey on people in a pinch."
That's precisely what happened to 31-year-old Diana in Whistler last winter. (She's asked that her surname not be used.)
Two guests had flown across the continent to Vancouver to spend a late-January weekend with her, so they decided to pursue a last-minute rental in the mountain's ski village. The trio turned to Craigslist.
hi-computer-keyboard-abc
The Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre says most online rental scams are perpetrated by organized crime syndicates operating far outside Canada's borders.
"It was a time crunch," she says. "We were weary ... so I called the guy who posted the unit."
They chatted and he provided email addresses for three references. Diana followed up with all three, getting responses from each one.
After mulling it over she sent a $600 Interac e-transfer to him. He provided a "receipt" and instructions on it for when they arrived.
Turns out the building existed but the specific unit she paid for did not. A property manager told her he was aware of the scam and that she was hardly the first to be fooled by it.
"Someone coming from out of town would have been screwed," Diana says. "There was always that little voice in the back of my mind."
On that point, inexplicably cheap digs in super-desirable hoods should be a major red flag.
If a renter "dodges your questions or keeps emphasizing how it's such a good deal and you need to hand over the money ... W-A-L-K away. It's a con," writes Romana King, senior editor of the website MoneySense.
Keep your guard up
As people become more comfortable with online transactions, a "certain degree of complacency" is setting in, according to Johal.
Hence an Ottawa police officer's comment to CBC News that "the internet, for some reason, seems to lull people into some sort of false sense of security."
That's partly due to the rise of the sharing economy and an explosion in online marketplaces — some of which offer financial fallbacks for users, while others "remain a bit of a Wild West," says Johal.
Airbnb, for example, lets users do deals directly on its platform and withholds payment until 24 hours after the person renting a property checks in.
It's not fail safe, but it leaves less room for scammers than Craigslist or Kijjji, which simply connect two people while all the money changes hands outside their respective platforms.
"People have to use common sense and keep their guard up," says Johal.
"And remember, fraudsters are smart, so they'll always be looking for the newest angle."
Online rental scams: How to avoid being conned out of your cash
'Fraudsters will follow the crowd and prey on people in a pinch,' says sharing economy expert
By Lucas Powers, CBC News Posted: Mar 04, 2016 11:19 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 04, 2016 11:45 AM ET
Kit Pullen was unwittingly pulled into an online rental gone awry after someone put the home he lives in up for rent on Kijiji.
Kit Pullen was unwittingly pulled into an online rental gone awry after someone put the home he lives in up for rent on Kijiji. (Roger Dubois/CBC)
'Career criminal' uses Airbnb listing on Craigslist to scam potential renters
'It's been horrible,' says woman whose belongings left in Ottawa driveway
Mover's load dropped in Ottawa man's driveway overnight
Condo rental scam snares $1,300 from Winnipeg couple
5 Ontarians charged in alleged cottage rental fraud
Winnipeg woman's house sale ad used for online rental scam
Student rentals: how to avoid online scams
Vancouver tenant's Craigslist scam hits prospective renters
External Links
U.S. Federal Trade Commision: Rental listing scams
MoneySense: Rental scams: How to avoid losing money
(Note: CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external links.)
Two Ontario strangers made headlines after an online rental went wrong this week. The bizarre incident put a spotlight on what fraud experts say is an "evolving" world of scams in the online economy.
According to Nikki Wilson, the alleged caper began when she tried to rent a house advertised on Kijiji. But it turns out that somebody already lived there — that somebody being Kit Pullen — and the Ottawa house certainly wasn't available for rent.
In the end, Wilson was out $900 and Pullen got a mountainous pile of someone else's stuff dumped on the driveway of his home.
Rental scams aren't new, but as more of these deals move online, would-be renters need to be especially vigilant.
"There's an awful lot of this going on," says Daniel Williams, senior fraud specialist with the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre in Ottawa.
Rental 'scam' led to mover's overnight drop in Ottawa driveway
Woman whose belongings left in Ottawa driveway now 'very untrusting'
Airbnb-Craigslist rental scam dupes Vancouverites out of $1,000
There have been 139 reports of online rental scams to the centre since Jan. 1. That figure likely reflects only a fraction of all the incidents occurring across the country, he adds.
The U.S. Federal Trade Commission calls the use of fraudulent ads for rental properties a "hijacked ad" scam — when a fraudster offers a rental property that, in reality, they have no connection to. The other most common type is "phantom rentals," which as you can probably guess involve a property that doesn't exist.
Kit Pullen driveway house contents missing stuff left Ottawa Parkglen Drive March 2 2016
Nikki Wilson had her belongings delivered to an Ottawa home she thought she would be renting. She says she lost $900 in the ruse. (CBC News)
Most people assume they're immune to the clever con artists peddling sweet deals on rental homes, condos, apartments and vacation spots.
But "scams are evolving," Williams says, especially with the growth of the sharing economy.
So here are a few tips to keep your cash away from crooks.
'Verify, verify, verify'
"Our main mantra here is verify, verify, verify. Really understand who you're dealing with," says Williams.
This might seem like plain ol' common sense, but it can be difficult — especially since it's so easy to fake a sheen of legitimacy online.
The truth is that the only way to have any security when renting a property online is to track down someone who has rented from the same person or company in the past.
"Anything else is a leap of faith, really. There are so many ways a fraudster can present themselves as a property owner," Williams explains.
In some instances, you might want to push the renter to provide contact information for someone they have previously dealt with. This might not always be possible for any number of reasons, but it's worth a shot, he says.
Keep your cash close
Scammers will almost always ask for money up front, like a security deposit or first and last month's rent. If you're not sure about where it's going, don't send it. Money sent via wire service or e-transfers will be as good as gone.
Whenever possible, try to make payments with a credit card. This isn't always realistic, but there are scenarios where it makes sense, like with many vacation rentals.
"Credit card companies have tremendous power to get your money back to you most of the time, which isn't the case for basically every other means of payment," says Williams.
Check the place out — if you can
It's always a good idea to physically see a property before any money changes hands. This isn't always possible, though, and sometimes it's still not enough to know you're being scammed.
Some con artists will go to great lengths to appear legitimate, staging elaborate charades to dupe renters.
CBC's Go Public reported last month on a Vancouver couple who were taken for $1,000 by a career criminal in a ploy that involved both Airbnb and Craigslist.
Play
Airbnb rental scam
JUMP TO BEGINNING OF THE TRACK SKIP BACK 15 SECONDS WATCH SKIP FORWARD 30 SECONDS ADJUST VOLUME 00:00 01:49 SHARE FULLSCREEN
Airbnb rental scam1:49
They aren't alone. Maxim Budnick is a 27-year-old professional model who works all over the world and moves often. He's rented or sublet 26 properties in the last three years, nearly all of them found online.
In other words, he's a seasoned renter with a keen eye for shady offerings.
But during one move from Bushwick to a Lower East Side sublet in New York City last year, he was conned out of $2,100 in a convoluted ruse.
The arrangement was orchestrated by a couple using false identities and a third person posing as a landlord. Then the three people disappeared.
"It really seemed legitimate," he recalls. "I even walked through the apartment a few times with them. I couldn't have imagined they'd go through all that. It's crazy, but honestly I'd bet it happens a lot."
Slow down and know the market
Online rental scams thrive when space is at a premium and people feel pressure to pounce on opportunity — for example in hot real estate markets or in high season at trendy getaway spots.
"That's where you might overlook your gut instincts about an online offer," says Sunil Johal, policy director at the Mowat Centre in Toronto.
"Fraudsters will follow the crowd and prey on people in a pinch."
That's precisely what happened to 31-year-old Diana in Whistler last winter. (She's asked that her surname not be used.)
Two guests had flown across the continent to Vancouver to spend a late-January weekend with her, so they decided to pursue a last-minute rental in the mountain's ski village. The trio turned to Craigslist.
hi-computer-keyboard-abc
The Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre says most online rental scams are perpetrated by organized crime syndicates operating far outside Canada's borders.
"It was a time crunch," she says. "We were weary ... so I called the guy who posted the unit."
They chatted and he provided email addresses for three references. Diana followed up with all three, getting responses from each one.
After mulling it over she sent a $600 Interac e-transfer to him. He provided a "receipt" and instructions on it for when they arrived.
Turns out the building existed but the specific unit she paid for did not. A property manager told her he was aware of the scam and that she was hardly the first to be fooled by it.
"Someone coming from out of town would have been screwed," Diana says. "There was always that little voice in the back of my mind."
On that point, inexplicably cheap digs in super-desirable hoods should be a major red flag.
If a renter "dodges your questions or keeps emphasizing how it's such a good deal and you need to hand over the money ... W-A-L-K away. It's a con," writes Romana King, senior editor of the website MoneySense.
Keep your guard up
As people become more comfortable with online transactions, a "certain degree of complacency" is setting in, according to Johal.
Hence an Ottawa police officer's comment to CBC News that "the internet, for some reason, seems to lull people into some sort of false sense of security."
That's partly due to the rise of the sharing economy and an explosion in online marketplaces — some of which offer financial fallbacks for users, while others "remain a bit of a Wild West," says Johal.
Airbnb, for example, lets users do deals directly on its platform and withholds payment until 24 hours after the person renting a property checks in.
It's not fail safe, but it leaves less room for scammers than Craigslist or Kijjji, which simply connect two people while all the money changes hands outside their respective platforms.
"People have to use common sense and keep their guard up," says Johal.
"And remember, fraudsters are smart, so they'll always be looking for the newest angle."
