my landlord took my girlfriends money and won't let her move in

[boogiewoogie]

my girlfriend went to see an apartment last week and agreed to take the place.
she then gave the landlord her first and last months rent on saturday.
today she was informed that she's not allowed to move in and that according to the landlord, damaged the neighbours fence with her car and took out the electrical wires causing the neighbour to be out of power for two days. thus he's taking her money to the neighbour and not letting her move in.
he refuses to give the number of the neighbour and hasn't produced an invoice either.
he knowingly took her money that he was not going to let her move in.
the police say its a tenant issue, but we think its theft.
she said she didn't damage anything. i went by the house looking fr anyone and no answer at door. i can't see damage anywhere and there isn't a fence i can see.
what should we do?

 

[shack]

Did she get a receipt from the landlord for the 1st and last months' rent?

 

[boogiewoogie]

Did she get a receipt from the landlord for the 1st and last months' rent?

it was an email money transfer

 

[black booty lover]

Over the next week if the landlord doesn't show any proof damage and can verify the story, (which I'm obviously sounds like BS because I think your GF would know if she hit a pole or something like that) I'd breaking door down to the apartment and move myself in for two months.

 

[Samranchoi]

And you currently rent from this guy? I would not pay your rent and show proof of the email transfers confirming payment of your rent. If you give cheques stop payment on your cheques. Not the best solution but if your story is 100% true and your GF caused no damage, he is a dick and deserves to be treated like one. You have already gone to the police and they will not do anything. What I have suggested is what I would do but then again, I have been a landlord and a tenant and have never encountered something like this

 

[wilbur]

Over the next week if the landlord doesn't show any proof damage and can verify the story, (which I'm obviously sounds like BS because I think your GF would know if she hit a pole or something like that) I'd breaking door down to the apartment and move myself in for two months.

Don't do that. They will use the full force of the law to screw you/her (will call the police and have you/her charged with break and enter); she will then have no case.

An e-mail transfer is evidence as there is a record. File papers at small claims court and include exemplary damages. They will have to show up in court or they lose automatically. They will also have to produce evidence to defend themselves. There are paralegals out there who can help her with the paperwork and the proceedings, and it won't cost her an arm and a leg. A summons to appear in court is usually sufficient for the defendant to quickly settle. This is a civil case, and the judge weights the preponderance of the evidence. Nothing has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[HOLLYWOODG]

It is a civil matter. The reason the cops will not prosecute on fraud is that it is one of the most difficult criminal offences to prove.

Fraud requires the accused having the intent to hold onto your girlfriend's money from the beginning.

In order to proceed with charges, police need proof.

The difficulty here is to prove that the landlord had that plan. Though what you believe to be fraud is precisely what has occured in reality, the cops have much difficulty to prove it and that's essentially what inhibits them from getting involved.

This landlord is a terrific con artist...

What's even worse here is that the way the current law reads the cops know full well that they cannot even have previous behaviour of someone accused of fraud taken into account in courts.

The fundamental tenet here is that a jury may be swayed to assume that since the person did it in the past, they must be guilty this time. Obviously, the problem which arises is that instead of examining the evidence for the allegation a jury may conveniently jump to a conclusion from past wrongdoing. Consequently, there's a danger that people could be wrongfully convicted.

 

[HOLLYWOODG]

You may also provide information in writing and under oath before a Justice of the Peace in the absence of the police bringing charges.

More information is afforded here:

https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/private_prosecution.php

 

[black booty lover]

Don't do that. They will use the full force of the law to screw you/her (will call the police and have you/her charged with break and enter); she will then have no case.

An e-mail transfer is evidence as there is a record. File papers at small claims court and include exemplary damages. They will have to show up in court or they lose automatically. They will also have to produce evidence to defend themselves. There are paralegals out there who can help her with the paperwork and the proceedings, and it won't cost her an arm and a leg. A summons to appear in court is usually sufficient for the defendant to quickly settle. This is a civil case, and the judge weights the preponderance of the evidence. Nothing has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

If she signed an tenant agreement, she can't be charged with break and enter.

 

[HOLLYWOODG]

If she signed an tenant agreement, she can't be charged with break and enter.

Good point. But the question then is whether she is willing to risk endangering herself.

 

[TeeJay]

today she was informed that she's not allowed to move in and that according to the landlord, damaged the neighbours fence with her car and took out the electrical wires causing the neighbour to be out of power for two days. thus he's taking her money to the neighbour and not letting her move in.

He can't actually take her money on behalf of neighbour (even if neighbour is also his tenant)

he refuses to give the number of the neighbour and hasn't produced an invoice either.

He never needs to ID the neighbour to you/her, even if story and reason for keeping money is true

he knowingly took her money that he was not going to let her move in.

Not only can you not prove this comment, I am curious as to how you came to it?

the police say its a tenant issue, but we think its theft.
she said she didn't damage anything. i went by the house looking fr anyone and no answer at door. i can't see damage anywhere and there isn't a fence i can see.
what should we do?

It sounds like a tenant issue per se but damage itself does not need to be obvious (esp if they fixed it)

The only thing I can think of is neighbour knew your gf from before, but then still its tough to actually prove it

You would need to discuss with a lawyer whether she ever was a tenant though
Did she ever occupy premises? Did he ever give her a key?
Simply taking a deposit does not actually create a contract (esp if you are correct his sole purpose was to defraud her on behalf of the neighbour)

 

[Samranchoi]

Hopefully Caryma Sa'd can chime in with her thoughts

 

[mandrill]

my girlfriend went to see an apartment last week and agreed to take the place.
she then gave the landlord her first and last months rent on saturday.
today she was informed that she's not allowed to move in and that according to the landlord, damaged the neighbours fence with her car and took out the electrical wires causing the neighbour to be out of power for two days. thus he's taking her money to the neighbour and not letting her move in.
he refuses to give the number of the neighbour and hasn't produced an invoice either.
he knowingly took her money that he was not going to let her move in.
the police say its a tenant issue, but we think its theft.
she said she didn't damage anything. i went by the house looking fr anyone and no answer at door. i can't see damage anywhere and there isn't a fence i can see.
what should we do?

Go to Small Claims Court at 47 Sheppard East and file a claim for the money back. If the court says it's in the jurisdiction of the Landlord Tenant Board, that tribunal is also in the same building. If the landlord is bs-ing, he will have to prove that she damaged the fence and wires.

 

[fuji]

If she signed an tenant agreement, she can't be charged with break and enter.

Did she sign one? In that case take that to a locksmith and get the locks changed and move in. If she DIDN'T sign one it's tougher.

Don't break the door down. Get a locksmith to do it, and then post a copy of the lease on the door and keep a copy with you, to show the police if they come.

Is there is no lease then I don't know, can you prove the money transfer was for rent? It becomes he said, she said.

 

[wilbur]

Your only course of action at the moment is to contact or visit "The Landlords and Tenants Tribunal", they enforce the "Landlords and Tenants Act". There they will give you a date of when to appear at a Tribunal Court, bring all evidence. Sadly this is all you can do right now. With what you have shared, Police will not get involved as it is "out of their hands". Even if you break the door down and attempt to move in for two months, as one suggested, the Police will charge you and will not deal with the money for rent issues.

WIR

If she didn't sign a lease, then I don't think that this tribunal has any jurisdiction as she is not a tenant. I think it's a simple case of fraud.

 

[wilbur]

Is there is no lease then I don't know, can you prove the money transfer was for rent? It becomes he said, she said.

Common sense dictates that money is not transfered for no reason. In small claims court, as any civil case, the judge rules on the side he believes the most.

 

[wazup]

Try your luck with the rcmp, http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/scams-fraudes/rep-sig-eng.htm I think the rcmp investigate things regular police forces don't, not sure though.

You could also call the cra informants line and see if it is grounds for tax evasion, tell them what happened, explain that if he is scamming people is he reporting it as income. They absolutely love getting tips. Might be a stretch but you never know. You do have proof of money changing hands, I belive they just need an email address and a name and they can figure it out from there. This won't get your money back though.

Make as many calls as you can before you spend more money on court costs etc.

 

[massman]

A letter from your lawyer often scares some sense into idiots like this.

 

[Smallcock]

If she signed a lease, the landlord cannot stop her from moving in.

Any third party property damage, real or imagined, is a separate matter.

 

[black booty lover]

A letter from your lawyer often scares some sense into idiots like this.

I was just thinking this. A little visit from police and a letter from a lawyer probably make the person think the 2G's (or whatever the amount is) isn't worth it.