New Staircase in Etobicoke

[SkyRider]

I can sort of understand the City's position.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/etobicoke-park-stairs-1.4213586

Edit: Typo correction

 

[Mr Bret]

Like you, I "sort of" understand the city's position.
However, this is another perfect example of how public money gets wasted.
Their estimates were outlandish, especially when we see what one guy was able to do with a helper and how much it cost.

 

[Aardvark154]

Sorry not a great deal of sympathy for the City.

 

[K Douglas]

All it takes for the city to do is inspect the stairs, make sure they are safe. If not fix them to code. Done in a day. Cost to taxpayer maybe $1500.
My goodness can we not get some common sense in government anymore.

 

[james t kirk]

All it takes for the city to do is inspect the stairs, make sure they are safe. If not fix them to code. Done in a day. Cost to taxpayer maybe $1500.
My goodness can we not get some common sense in government anymore.

LOL.

$1,500.00 won't even pay for the Contractor's insurance.

 

[james t kirk]

Anyone who thinks those stairs are OK, or even 1 percent of OK, or that "it's just a set of stairs" is kidding themselves.

Laughable.

I can see just looking at the photo that what is there is a joke. While I admire the old boy's ambition, the fact of the matter is what he has built is so substandard, even dangerous, it's not fucking funny. All it will take is some chubby soccer mom walking down there with a couple of kids for the stairs to collapse and then the lawsuits will start flying.

So tell me Ardie, you're the lawyer here. Say chubby soccer mom and her kiddies go for a tumble and little junior breaks his neck. Who do they sue? The old boy doesn't have insurance to be doing this sort of thing. The City didn't design or build them. So who is at fault?

If I was the City, I'd send a City crew over there tonight and tear those stairs out and add it to the old boy's property tax bill to deter his stupidity in the future.

Everyone thinks, "it's just a set of stairs". Uh huh. About as smart as operating on yourself by following the manual.

I think the cost will be a lot closer to the City's estimate than most of you could ever fathom. The slope needs to be surveyed, you may need to consider drainage, geotechnical issues, do you need lights?, you need an engineer's signed and sealed design, you need a slew of permits from the various departments at the City of Toronto, the thing has to go out to public tender, maybe somebody feels the need to have a public meeting about the stairs, and then it has to be built properly and inspected during construction. And let's not forget that any construction done for the City of Toronto has to be done by unionized contractors. So right there, you're at about $80.00 per hour per man base rate.

If you think you can do all that for $500.00 or $1,500.00 or even $50,000.00, I've got a bridge for sale over the Don Valley I'd like you to look at.

 

[Aardvark154]

LOL.

$1,500.00 won't even pay for the Contractor's insurance.

All I can say is wow are prices inflated in Toronto!

Further, the City can improve said stairs for less than a thousand dollars!

 

[james t kirk]

All I can say is wow are prices inflated in Toronto!

Further, the City can't improve said stairs for less that a thousand dollars!

No, it's simpler than that.

You just don't know the cost of things.

But you never answered my question.....

So the stairs collapse and a kid breaks his neck, who is liable for damages?

 

[FAST]

The current stairs are safer than what was there before.

The city knows it would cost more than $65,000 to replace them,...because of Millar's closed union crap,... for city work.

Anybody with a minimum of intelligence knows that those stairs could be replaced for $10,000 max,...if a private contractor was "allowed" to do the work.

 

[Aardvark154]

No, it's simpler than that.

You just don't know the cost of things.

But you never answered my question.....

So the stairs collapse and a kid breaks his neck, who is liable for damages?

Huge sign: "Use at your own risk, the City of Toronto assumes no liability - Sovereign Immunity applies."

 

[Samranchoi]

Huge sign: "Use at your own risk, the City of Toronto assumes no liability - Sovereign Immunity applies."

Similar to driving on an "unassumed" road. The municipality absolves itself from liability by posting such signs

 

[SkyRider]

The old man meant well but you can't build a structure on property not your own without permission from the legal owner.

 

[GPIDEAL]

LOL.

$1,500.00 won't even pay for the Contractor's insurance.

The contractor's insurance probably costs more but it's a fixed annual cost.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Anyone who thinks those stairs are OK, or even 1 percent of OK, or that "it's just a set of stairs" is kidding themselves.

Laughable.

I can see just looking at the photo that what is there is a joke. While I admire the old boy's ambition, the fact of the matter is what he has built is so substandard, even dangerous, it's not fucking funny. All it will take is some chubby soccer mom walking down there with a couple of kids for the stairs to collapse and then the lawsuits will start flying.

So tell me Ardie, you're the lawyer here. Say chubby soccer mom and her kiddies go for a tumble and little junior breaks his neck. Who do they sue? The old boy doesn't have insurance to be doing this sort of thing. The City didn't design or build them. So who is at fault?

If I was the City, I'd send a City crew over there tonight and tear those stairs out and add it to the old boy's property tax bill to deter his stupidity in the future.

Everyone thinks, "it's just a set of stairs". Uh huh. About as smart as operating on yourself by following the manual.

I think the cost will be a lot closer to the City's estimate than most of you could ever fathom. The slope needs to be surveyed, you may need to consider drainage, geotechnical issues, do you need lights?, you need an engineer's signed and sealed design, you need a slew of permits from the various departments at the City of Toronto, the thing has to go out to public tender, maybe somebody feels the need to have a public meeting about the stairs, and then it has to be built properly and inspected during construction. And let's not forget that any construction done for the City of Toronto has to be done by unionized contractors. So right there, you're at about $80.00 per hour per man base rate.

If you think you can do all that for $500.00 or $1,500.00 or even $50,000.00, I've got a bridge for sale over the Don Valley I'd like you to look at.

You're absolutely right James, they are shoddy. I can see someone trip right now. The cost of a Local 506 cement finisher is a little over $60 per REGULAR hour but that's COST. So yeah, it would be $80 or more per hour to price this out. Carpenters cost more. I still don't know about $50,000 if it's just a proper, concreted version of the citizen's form work, but if you must include walkways, lighting, etc. etc., sure, it can add up. I agree that they should dismantle it, and charge the citizen's tax bill for such cost.

 

[AJstar]

The old man meant well but you can't build a structure on property not your own without permission from the legal owner.

Seems simple enough that you can't touch/alter public property.
Liability X's infinity. Can we say 'Slip n Fall'
With a slippery hill, well you're just an idiot if you fall for trying to go down it in the 1st place.
With stairs ,its an open invitation to use & safe & made to building codes, even with the top fence still blocking access. It screams of an accident in progress.
Not to mention that even if it was left to stand, it looks too weak to last a year even if it isn't stressed.
1 or 2 winters & its toast.
Also too many uneven,unsupported, & unstable surfaces that are all subject to shifting &/collapse. Oh yeah & tripping over causing serious injuries.
So then who pays to fix/tear it down then?
Nope,you can't allow it.
We do need ,however to reign in ridiculous gov't expenditures. That is out of control.

 

[Smallcock]

The old man meant well but you can't build a structure on property not your own without permission from the legal owner.

Yeah this sets a very bad precedent. The stairs have to go for all the reasons James mentioned.

 

[MattRoxx]

Good on the citizen for making a point but those steps aren't anchored and won't last long.
It's too bad the city's solution is going to be ugly concrete stairs

With all the ongoing projects would it really be that much harder and more expensive to have a bit of design or something that fits the surroundings a little better than ug grey poured concrete.

 

[dirkd101]

Anyone who thinks those stairs are OK, or even 1 percent of OK, or that "it's just a set of stairs" is kidding themselves.

Laughable.

I can see just looking at the photo that what is there is a joke. While I admire the old boy's ambition, the fact of the matter is what he has built is so substandard, even dangerous, it's not fucking funny. All it will take is some chubby soccer mom walking down there with a couple of kids for the stairs to collapse and then the lawsuits will start flying.

So tell me Ardie, you're the lawyer here. Say chubby soccer mom and her kiddies go for a tumble and little junior breaks his neck. Who do they sue? The old boy doesn't have insurance to be doing this sort of thing. The City didn't design or build them. So who is at fault?

If I was the City, I'd send a City crew over there tonight and tear those stairs out and add it to the old boy's property tax bill to deter his stupidity in the future.

Everyone thinks, "it's just a set of stairs". Uh huh. About as smart as operating on yourself by following the manual.

I think the cost will be a lot closer to the City's estimate than most of you could ever fathom. The slope needs to be surveyed, you may need to consider drainage, geotechnical issues, do you need lights?, you need an engineer's signed and sealed design, you need a slew of permits from the various departments at the City of Toronto, the thing has to go out to public tender, maybe somebody feels the need to have a public meeting about the stairs, and then it has to be built properly and inspected during construction. And let's not forget that any construction done for the City of Toronto has to be done by unionized contractors. So right there, you're at about $80.00 per hour per man base rate.

If you think you can do all that for $500.00 or $1,500.00 or even $50,000.00, I've got a bridge for sale over the Don Valley I'd like you to look at.

You left out the environmental assessment. God forbid we disrupt some snail, ant or worm that has it's habitat destroyed.

 

[jcpro]

Well, his solution was garbage and it's already gone, but he moved the government, got himself a lot of attention and really shined a huge spotlight on the way Toronto does business. Great job!

 

[Butler1000]

I installed about 1200 square feet of patio with cedar deck and stone work. All done by a professional carpenter and landscaper. As well as 70 feet of new fencing. Lighting by electrician and two gas lines.

All in about 32,000.

And they want double for this? Bullshit. It's a gouge. I don't care what you say Kirk. It's a gouge. It should be tendered out to contractors with reasonable pricing.

This should not cost what you said. I did all of that for my patio. Leveled, proper footing driven into the ground, proper screening, lights, safety rails, all of it. For something about 40 times the size of this.

It's bullshit.