ACTUAL SCIENTIST: "Climate Change is a Scam!"

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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What I'm clearly saying, if English weren't a challenge for you, is that 100% of scientists who are credible enough to be published in the top journals support global warming.
"Keith [Briffa] didn't mention in his Science piece but both of us think that you're on very dodgy ground with this long-term decline in temperatures on the thousand year timescale."

- Email from Phil Jones at the University of East Anglia to Michael Mann, May 6, 1999.

https://junkscience.com/2011/11/climategate-2-0-jones-briffa-say-mann-hokey-stick-on-dodgy-ground/
 

fuji

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"Keith [Briffa] didn't mention in his Science piece but both of us think that you're on very dodgy ground with this long-term decline in temperatures on the thousand year timescale."

- Email from Phil Jones at the University of East Anglia to Michael Mann, May 6, 1999.

https://junkscience.com/2011/11/climategate-2-0-jones-briffa-say-mann-hokey-stick-on-dodgy-ground/
Show me an article that passed muster with peer reviews at the top journals. You can't. Then you insist your own dodgy sources are better but the prediction made by YOU and your dodgy sources was SPECTACULARLY WRONG. Several years ago you predicted temperatures had plateaued and would decline but instead they blew past all the records. You were spectacularly wrong.

Having been so wrong in your own prediction you have no place whatsoever to claim you have a better grip on things than the science that is published in the top journals.
 

PornAddict

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Fine. Based on currently available evidence, 99.9%

Ask whatever questions you want but the scientific community has looked at them and taken them into account. They still see human sourced CO2 a a major factor in current climactic changes. The rest of you post is no different from 9/11 conspiracy theorists trying to create doubt with common people despite the well educated experts already having the vast majority of answers.


We need to remember what science is it is not a compilation of facts. Rather it is a set of processes used to gather relatively reliable information about the world we live in, our societies and ourselves. It is the formality of these processes that gives science its privilege and validity over other claims to knowledge about our world that can only come from belief, received wisdom, or anecdote. When this formality is broken whether by unsupported claims , hidden biases , lack of reproducibility , and inadequate peer review public trust in science is harmed and its privilege is undermined.

PROFESSOR SIR PETER GLUCKMAN, ONZ, KNZM, FRS, FMEDSCI, FRSNZ ARTHUR E MILLS MEMORIAL ORATION TO THE ROYAL AUSTRALASIAN COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS, MAY 18TH 2014 P ETER GLUCKMAN is the Chief Scientific Advisor to the Government of New Zealand, and broadly supportive of the general line on "climate change”. His emphasis on the formality of scientific processes is not contentious, and his list of breaches in that formality and their harm to public trust is worth considering with respect to Michael E Mann and his work:

1) Unsupported claims In the Summary for Policy Makers of its Third Assessment Review, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change made the single most dramatic assertion in the history of the global-warming movement: The increase in temperature in the 20th century is likely to have been the largest of any century during the past 1,000 years. It is also likely that, in the Northern Hemisphere, the 1990s was the warmest decade and 1998 the warmest year. The only evidence offered in support of this statement was Michael Mann’s hockey stick. Does it, indeed, support such a claim? Not according to many of the scientists in these pages. The Danish climatologist Bo Christiansen examined nine Mann “hockey sticks” and says it is “almost impossible to conclude” from any of them that “the present period is warmer than any period in the reconstructed period”. Professor David Legates writes that “one can have no confidence in the claim that the 1990s are the warmest decade of the last two millennia” (by then Mann had extended his flexi-shaft back another millennium.) Almost every other serious reconstruction shows much greater natural climate variability, and the 1990s within the bounds of that. And, as Professors McShane and Wyner point out, most of these reconstructions look nothing like hockey sticks. Indeed, it remains an open question whether what his oeuvre purports to divine a “global temperature” is in a scientific sense “supportable”. In the absence of reliable tropical data, says Dr David Rind, “we have no way of knowing how cold (or warm) the globe actually got”. So unsupported claims: yes.

2) Hidden biases
Later in this book, Nobel Prize winner Ivar Giaever reminds us that “in pseudoscience you begin with a hypothesis which is very appealing to you, and then you only look for things which confirm the hypothesis”. Mann began with a hypothesis that the global temperature record had been pretty stable for 900 years and then in the 20th century it soared up and out the roof. And so he looked for “things which confirm the hypothesis”: As Mann put it, “one set of tree-ring records” was “of critical importance” in conjuring his stick .So his hypothesis that it looks like a hockey stick is confirmed only because a tree ring that produces a hockey-stick shape is given 390 times the weight of a tree ring that does not. That tells you nothing about what the temperature was in the 15th century, but a lot about Mann’s biases. He chose a statistical method that, as the US National Research Council noted rather primly, “tends to bias the shape of the reconstructions”. Furthermore, the scientists who actually collected the tree-ring data that Mann cannibalized insist they’re primarily an indicator of CO 2 fertilization, not temperature. At the IPCC level, he maintained his bias against anything that contradicted his hypothesis. As Professor John Christy testified to Congress, Mann “misrepresented the temperature record of the past thousand years by (a) promoting his own result as the best estimate, (b) neglecting studies that contradicted his, and (c) amputating another’s result so as to eliminate conflicting data”. Hidden biases: yes.

3) Lack of reproducibility Is Mann’s work “reproducible”? They gave it a go in Berlin. “She came to the conclusion that she cannot reproduce his diagram,” says Professor Ulrich Cubasch. “The real problem in this case, in my view, is that Michael Mann does not disclose his data.” Except for a small trusted coterie, Mann declined for years to release the elements needed to reproduce his stick. In evidence before the House of Commons in London, Professor Darrel Ince noted Mann’s refusal to cough up his computer code, and said that he would “regard any papers based on the software as null and void”. His stick could be neither proved nor disproved and, as Professor Vincent Courtillot reminded European climatologists, if “it’s not falsifiable, it’s not science”. Lack of reproducibility: yup. So three strikes, he’s out. No, wait, that’s another sport entirely.

For hockey, you need four.

4) Inadequate peer review “The hockey stick is an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence,” wrote Oxford physicist Jonathan Jones. Nature never asked for any and, when it fell to others to demonstrate the flaws of the stick, the journal declined to share their findings with its readers. Mann and a few close allies controlled the fora that mattered, and banished any dissidents. “It’s a completely rigged peer-review system,” concluded CalTech’s Dr David Rutledge. Fourth strike. The unsupported claims, hidden biases, lack of reproducibility and inadequate peer review of Mann have surely harmed “public trust in science”. What follows is one scientist and his science, by those who know both the work and the man.
 

fuji

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^^^^ bull shit

You can't find any CREDIBLE scientist who says that. You don't have a single reference to a credible journal with strict peer review. When credible scientists review your claims they as REJECT them.
 

PornAddict

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FAST

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^^^^ bull shit

You can't find any CREDIBLE scientist who says that. You don't have a single reference to a credible journal with strict peer review. When credible scientists review your claims they as REJECT them.
"So you are saying that Mann was/is NOT credible,...???

And all of the publications that published him,...are/were not credible,...???"

I'll make it real easy for ya,...

A,...Your reply could be yes,...all of the publications that published Mann were credible,...

OR

B,...Your reply could be no,...all of the publications that published Mann were not credible,...

Pick one,...A or B

Come on fuji,...you can do it,...
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Show me an article that passed muster with peer reviews at the top journals. You can't. Then you insist your own dodgy sources are better but the prediction made by YOU and your dodgy sources was SPECTACULARLY WRONG. Several years ago you predicted temperatures had plateaued and would decline but instead they blew past all the records. You were spectacularly wrong.

Having been so wrong in your own prediction you have no place whatsoever to claim you have a better grip on things than the science that is published in the top journals.
LMFAO!

You should have checked the previous page in this thread before you posted your nonsense. As PornAddict has already noted, I did post an article from Nature that confirmed there has been a "mismatch" between the annual temperature anomalies in the 21st century and what was predicted.

Here it is again:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncl...LtBN-t9BE3fu&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com

“There is this mismatch between what the climate models are producing and what the observations are showing,” says lead author John Fyfe, a climate modeller at the Canadian Centre for Climate Modelling and Analysis in Victoria, British Columbia. “We can’t ignore it.”
http://www.nature.com/news/global-warming-hiatus-debate-flares-up-again-1.19414

Added bonus: That paper in Nature refutes the sea-surface adjustments that are the source of your "thirty year average."

You insist that you accept everything that appears in the peer-reviewed journals as gospel. That means you're conceding that your numbers are a crock.

Well played, Fuji.

(And for the record, Mr. Make Believe, I never "predicted" temperatures had "plateaued." I said the temperature anomalies in the 21st century have been "stagnant" and that the predictions of skyrocketing temperatures have been consistently and spectacularly wrong.)
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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We need to remember what science is it is not a compilation of facts. Rather it is a set of processes used to gather relatively reliable information about the world we live in, our societies and ourselves. It is the formality of these processes that gives science its privilege and validity over other claims to knowledge about our world that can only come from belief, received wisdom, or anecdote. When this formality is broken whether by unsupported claims , hidden biases , lack of reproducibility , and inadequate peer review public trust in science is harmed and its privilege is undermined. ....
And through those processes the vast majority of the scientific community understand that human produced CO2 plays a significant role in current climactic changes. Even the article you kept spamming about naturally produced aerosols stated that human have equalled the naturally produced amount, doubling the amount in the atmosphere.
 

canada-man

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And through those processes the vast majority of the scientific community understand that human produced CO2 plays a significant role in current climactic changes. Even the article you kept spamming about naturally produced aerosols stated that human have equalled the naturally produced amount, doubling the amount in the atmosphere.
appeal to authority is a logical fallacy
 

fuji

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LMFAO!

You should have checked the previous page in this thread before you posted your nonsense. As PornAddict has already noted, I did post an article from Nature that confirmed there has been a "mismatch" between the annual temperature anomalies in the 21st century and what was predicted.

Here it is again:

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncl...LtBN-t9BE3fu&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com



http://www.nature.com/news/global-warming-hiatus-debate-flares-up-again-1.19414

Added bonus: That paper in Nature refutes the sea-surface adjustments that are the source of your "thirty year average."

You insist that you accept everything that appears in the peer-reviewed journals as gospel. That means you're conceding that your numbers are a crock.

Well played, Fuji.

(And for the record, Mr. Make Believe, I never "predicted" temperatures had "plateaued." I said the temperature anomalies in the 21st century have been "stagnant" and that the predictions of skyrocketing temperatures have been consistently and spectacularly wrong.)
The article says warming slowed and that's true. It didn't stop as you predicted. And it's clearly due to human CO2 emissions.

Thanks for providing good materials though.

Here's a quote from your link:

Fyfe uses the term “slowdown” rather than “hiatus” and stresses that it does not in any way undermine global-warming theory.,

Tough one for you to swallow... Here's an even tougher one:

Fyfe says that his calculations show that the planet warmed at 0.170 °C per decade from 1972 to 2001, which is significantly higher than the warming of 0.113 °C per decade he calculates for 2000–14.

And then there's this knock out punch:

Gavin Schmidt, director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, is tired of the entire discussion, which he says comes down to definitions and academic bickering. There is no evidence for a change in the long-term warming trend, he says, and there are always a host of reasons why a short-term trend might diverge — and why the climate models might not capture that divergence.

You and PA can cry now.
 

FAST

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fuji approved,...

This guy is a Noble Laureate (in Physics no less) who casts some doubt on the absolute argument
He presents himself well and comes across as very credible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXxHfb66ZgM
Nobel Laureate in Physics; "Global Warming is Pseudoscience"
Don't you understand what qualifies any scientist,...

If he didn't publish in one of fuji's magazines,...he's not credible,...
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Don't you understand what qualifies any scientist,...

If he didn't publish in one of fuji's magazines,...he's not credible,...
Fuji does not read those scientific journals
He would be lost by the third paragraph of the first article
 

fuji

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This guy is a Noble Laureate (in Physics no less) who casts some doubt on the absolute argument
He presents himself well and comes across as very credible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXxHfb66ZgM
Nobel Laureate in Physics; "Global Warming is Pseudoscience"
Why can't he get that opinion published?

Maybe because his Nobel isn't related to this area and he doesn't know what he's talking about?

FAST is right, if it isn't in a top journal then a layman shouldn't trust it.
 

basketcase

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This guy is a Noble Laureate (in Physics no less) who casts some doubt on the absolute argument
He presents himself well and comes across as very credible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXxHfb66ZgM
Nobel Laureate in Physics; "Global Warming is Pseudoscience"
This guy has been discussed repeatedly. Having a 1973 Nobel prize for electron tunneling in semiconductors in no way makes him an expert in climate change (any more than Noam Chomsky's work in linguistics makes him knowledgeable in international relations). He may come across well but so do many snake oil salesmen.

The simple question is why does the vast majority of the scientific community disagree with him?
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
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Why can't he get that opinion published?

Maybe because his Nobel isn't related to this area and he doesn't know what he's talking about?

FAST is right, if it isn't in a top journal then a layman shouldn't trust it.
Because the process is controlled and corrupted by a cabal of influential 'scientists' who have political (U.N.) connections.
There are so many dissenting studies that refute the theory of AGW. http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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The article says warming slowed and that's true. It didn't stop as you predicted.
Nice try. Unfortunately, Mr. Make Believe, we live in the real world. And in the real world, I made no such prediction.

What I did state was that the IPCC's predictions have been consistently and spectacularly wrong. The peer-reviewed paper in Nature shows there is a clear "mismatch" between the predictions and the observed data.

And as I said, the added bonus is that the published, peer-reviewed paper disputes the findings about sea-surface temperatures in the Karl paper that were the source of your 30-year average. You now have a published paper in one of your preferred journals that says your numbers are a crock.

You lose, Fuji.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Because the process is controlled and corrupted by a cabal of influential 'scientists' who have political (U.N.) connections.
There are so many dissenting studies that refute the theory of AGW. http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
Peer review and the scientific journals ain't what they used to be.

https://www.theguardian.com/higher-...cademic-journals-to-tell-the-scientific-truth

http://business.financialpost.com/o...-about-the-reliability-of-science-think-again
 
Ashley Madison
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