Atheist fired for refusing to enter AA program
- Thread starter canada-man
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer
There is a religious elements.
Pretty sure the group counseling is still helpful even if you aren't religious.
There is a religious elements.
Pretty sure the group counseling is still helpful even if you aren't religious.
God as we understood him, that doesn't mean Jesus Christ, Allah, it could mean Nature... Energy or Pussy.
The origins of Alcoholics Anonymous can be traced to the Oxford Group, a religious movement popular in the United States and Europe in the early 20th century. Members of the Oxford Group practiced a formula of self-improvement by performing self-inventory, admitting wrongs, making amends, using prayer and meditation, and carrying the message to others.
http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/aa-timeline
http://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/aa-timeline
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-121_en.pdf
Read the 12 steps many of thems say God or him in reference to God.
When God is capitalized I'm pretty sure it means we are talking about Christian God. Rather than greek gods like Zeus.
Read the 12 steps many of thems say God or him in reference to God.
When God is capitalized I'm pretty sure it means we are talking about Christian God. Rather than greek gods like Zeus.
Yes it says god, does that dosen't mean its related to religion, church or a christian god.
When it says: Step three: “a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.” its not saying Jesus or any other religious God it says God as you understand God.
AA evolved over the years and it may of been started with principles of the Oxford group but they understood that religion was a turn off for many, that's why AA doesn't align with church. If you think God means church, whatever.
There is a massive difference between God vs god. That is not an opinion.
http://grammarist.com/style/god-capitalization/
For example, God is capitalized in these sentences because it names the Judeo-Christian god (note the lack of definite or indefinite article):
The notion that you believe in God has become synonymous with the notion that you hold things with a rigid, possibly violent, certainty. [Guardian]
He says God has planned a holocaust of judgment for America worse than any WMD. [Salon]
I was against abortion, divorce and homosexuality because God’s word said they were wrong. [Denver Post]
I do agree that the religious over or under tones of AA has been toned down. But I don't think it is fair to say that it doesn't have a religious element to it.
That said I think it is stupid because the person in the original story should have just found a different support group.
Also, look at the use of "Him" in the various 12 steps. It too is capitalized because it is in reference to God.
I do acknowledge that AA welcomes all people and they will say they are spiritual not religious but part if they wanted to remove God from the 12 steps they could.
But they choose not to. That's not an accident.
But they choose not to. That's not an accident.
re·li·gious
rəˈlijəs/
adjective
1.
relating to or believing in a religion.
"both men were deeply religious, intelligent, and moralistic"
The way I see it religion is church, such as Christianity, Islam or Judaism. There is no mention of Religion in AA.
Um.... I just want to point out a couple of things.
1. He is atheist. He does not believe in God so he can't exactly turn his will over to Him.
2. He did make suggestions for other counselling and treatment. He was basically denied these other options as valid types of treatment based on the doctors opinion.
1. He is atheist. He does not believe in God so he can't exactly turn his will over to Him.
2. He did make suggestions for other counselling and treatment. He was basically denied these other options as valid types of treatment based on the doctors opinion.
I didn't see the whole thing, he should have been given the choice of treatment. (depends who's paying) Let him sue them.
He's a nurse and he didn't want to give out urine samples to prove that he's clean. In a job like that you need to prove you're clean.
If the word God bothered him, there is AA for atheist and agnostics.
I don't think that's what Fuji is saying. The comments he and I have been making are in direct reference to the use of the words God/Him in the 12 steps of AA. More specifically another poster suggested that one of the phrases could be interpreted to be any sort of higher being. My point was that capital G and H for God and Him usually means reference to Christian god. Fuji's point was that using the singular form of God doesn't speak to people who don't believe in a god or people who have religions with many gods.
In the case of the preamble of the Canadian Charter I think it just means to say that the following stuff is based on Christian beliefs. Which is true. Our laws and views have a lot of roots with the Christian way of thinking. But it is in no way invalidating someone else's beliefs. Especially if you read on. At best you are taking an out of context statement to try and prove a point.
Here's the part that addresses religion
Fundamental Freedoms
Marginal note:Fundamental freedoms
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
Canada was "founded" quite a while back, something like 150 years back, and at that point in time, the vast majority of Canadians were religious.
Don't think we should rewrite history.
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