Why are teachers not allowed to be at a school event on a Saturday?

[hyperdog]

My teacher friend drove by his school and noticed a man letting students in through the gymnasium door. It appeared to be some sort of event. Since he is a teacher at the school, he felt that he could be there to give support, watch, help supervise, etc... When he went into the main entrance, the hall monitor there said "No teachers are allowed into the building during this time!", forcing him to leave.

So what's the big deal? It's as if teachers are viewed as teachers during weekdays, but during the weekend they are viewed as criminals. What's going on here?

 

[FAST]

My teacher friend drove by his school and noticed a man letting students in through the gymnasium door. It appeared to be some sort of event. Since he is a teacher at the school, he felt that he could be there to give support, watch, help supervise, etc... When he went into the main entrance, the hall monitor there said "No teachers are allowed into the building during this time!", forcing him to leave.

So what's the big deal? It's as if teachers are viewed as teachers during weekdays, but during the weekend they are viewed as criminals. What's going on here?

Because it works both ways.

NOBODY is allowed to infringe on what their union considers "union work", so that is the outcome of their actions.

Besides, just because he is a teacher there, does NOT give him the right to trespass.

FAST

 

[hyperdog]

Besides, just because he is a teacher there, does NOT give him the right to trespass.
FAST

If the school is open, and the teacher is willing to help supervise, how is it trespassing?

Like FAST, I would think it is partly due to the teachers' collective bargaining agreement not only because it's a Saturday but also because it is summer break. Unions frown on their members working for free.

Is he sure that it was a school-sanctioned event? It could just be something using the school facility but not necessarily a school event, in which case he wouldn't be any more authorized to be there in a supervisory role than any other random volunteer.

Why is working for free frowned upon? Isn't running extra-curricular activities considered to be working for free too? Besides, it is apparently not the union who is stopping the teacher, but the school's admin team (who were apparently not there) who instructed the hall monitors to not allow teachers in.

The students were all wearing special t-shirts designed by the school, so yes, I would say that it was a school-sanctioned event (that was apparently run by adults that are not teachers).

 

[Occasionally]

Exactly said guys.

If union guys want to be rigid in their processes, workload and hours, then they have to abide by what is considered work-time (allowed) and off-time (prohibited) where management tells you to beat it.

It is not unusual to prohibit employees from entering businesses during non-work hours anyway. This goes for any job.

If you work at a store, you can't just waltz in anytime the doors are locked. I have a key fob for my office. But it is not 24/7. I've tried going to work at weird hours because I had time, but it doesn't work between the hours of 7 pm and 7 am. So I guess I'm locked out if I want to enter too early, or pop in after dinner.

 

[hyperdog]

It is not unusual to prohibit employees from entering businesses during non-work hours anyway. This goes for any job.

Suppose a store owner hires an inventory company to take inventory of his store during closed hours. Then one of his employees volunteered to help by telling the inventory auditors prices of items that have no price tags. The owner would tell him to get lost? I don't think so.

The situation I've discussed is quite specific to teachers, regarding student safety as if teachers are considered pedophiles during weekends.

 

[basketcase]

If the school is open, and the teacher is willing to help supervise, how is it trespassing?...

Severely doubt it has anything to do with unions.

Being a weekend (and summer) it would be a privately permitted event and therefore the teacher has no legitimate reason for being there. For example I've seen signs for a church operating in a school on sunday mornings. I wouldn't be surprised if a teacher could be let in by the caretakers to work in their office/classroom if they asked nicely but a private event is exactly that. If the event organizers don't want him there...

Similar would be a grounds keeper at the Rogers center expecting to walk into a concert for free.

And if I was running a camp or something out of a school I would be extremely uncomfortable allowing unknown people into my business. In fact I would be held completely liable if I allowed some random person saying they are a teacher to interact with my charges.

 

[Occasionally]

Suppose a store owner hires an inventory company to take inventory of his store during closed hours. Then one of his employees volunteered to help by telling the inventory auditors prices of items that have no price tags. The owner would tell him to get lost? I don't think so.

The situation I've discussed is quite specific to teachers, regarding student safety as if teachers are considered pedophiles during weekends.

Who ever said teachers are weekend pedophiles?

It's a case of union protocols. And that weekend event seemed to have nothing to do with teachers, so he's not allowed.

The inventory control issue can go both ways. It depends if the owner feels like having an extra hand. And I doubt a clerk would offer volunteer time to do middle of the night inventory checks.

Also, the owner may say forget it. Companies hire third party help to do a task and often don't want internal employees getting involved. If the need help they will ask for it. For example, when companies hire auditors, nobody is supposed to go over and just offer to help. If you are asked for help that's different. But you don't waltz in and ask them what help I can do for you.

 

[explorerzip]

Might have been a sports club like Toronto Sports and Social Club or Not So Pro holding a team sports event of some sort. They commonly use school gyms after hours (don't know about weekends or the summer) so a custodian would be letting people in and out.

 

[The Options Menu]

It's a case of union protocols. And that weekend event seemed to have nothing to do with teachers, so he's not allowed.

I'm related to, and know, a small army of teachers, and one of them is a local union rep. As near as I can tell many of them spend a large number of their off hours at the school. In fact it's pretty hard to be a teacher and not do that even with no extra curricular activities, especially on the elementary side. So as much fun as the casual union bashing is... At least know the job you're talking about. In the midst of the summer I don't know many teachers that would be caught dead in their schools, but I imagine that many school boards would have a policy that would discourage teachers from coming and going willy nilly during the summer break when they have absolutely no reason to be there. FRANKLY, A GREAT MANY EMPLOYERS WOULDN'T WANT EMPLOYEES COMING AND GOING WHEN THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING AT THE WORKPLACE.

Thoughts on "No teachers are allowed into the building during this time!":
0) It's not like the union rep guards the door of the school in the summer, or the union has summer staff to guard the schools. Could it have been custodial staff that knew the teacher and knew he had no business being there? (Some of the grimier custodial work often gets done over the break, AFAIK.)
1) Given that it's summer break in most places could it be somebody making a joke? (AKA- "Why the hell are you here?")
2) Could have it been some kind of 'summer fun' program that didn't want to be 'uncool' by having a teacher around?
3) Could it be some kind of private function that has no obligation to accept unsolicited offers of help from some random person?
4) Some places may indeed have policies about teachers not being in the school during the middle of summer break. That would be as much board policy as anything else, AFAIK. Teachers usually go back about a week before school starts on the elementary side.
5) I'm not sure, and it may be board and school dependant, if teachers can come and go willy nilly on the weekends during the school year, but I've been with teachers (plural) in schools on the weekends during the school year. I know the elementary side better, but being an 'average' teacher isn't an 8-4 job, and being a 'good' teacher takes considerably more than that, so teachers are often in schools at odd hours even without meetings, events, and extra curricular activities. It's a little easier to have a 'normal day' on the highschool side.

I'll ask the actual union rep when I talk to them, though they're not in the TDSB (but the are in Ontario). As likely as not, it might just have been a custodian following the summer protocol and not somebody who was involved with what was going on at the school (who would have no obligation to oblige the teacher anyway).

 

[bazokajoe]

Does this teacher think their shit doesn't stink? Just because he works at the school doesn't mean they own it. What the school board does with the school after school is out for the summer or on weekends is none of his business. He needs to get off his high horse,and take the rest of the teachers with him.

 

[hyperdog]

As likely as not, it might just have been a custodian following the summer protocol and not somebody who was involved with what was going on at the school (who would have no obligation to oblige the teacher anyway).

Yes, it was a custodian. I was just questioning why the protocol. But I pretty much understand all the answers now, and am glad that it is not teachers specifically being picked on.

However, I do still believe that the presence of many students (minors) in the event made the protocol more strict. If it was an event consisting only of adults, and no students at all, I have a feeling he might have been allowed in even though no one asked him to come.

 

[Occasionally]

Yes, it was a custodian. I was just questioning why the protocol. But I pretty much understand all the answers now, and am glad that it is not teachers specifically being picked on.

However, I do still believe that the presence of many students (minors) in the event made the protocol more strict. If it was an event consisting only of adults, and no students at all, I have a feeling he might have been allowed in even though no one asked him to come.

It's not about teachers being picked on. It's just general practice that if an employee is not expected or asked to be in a particular area he shouldn't be there.... and especially in this example as he was randomly driving by the school on a weekend and decided to impose his assistance.

I work in an office. It would no different than if I drove to the company's warehouse and decided to just walk in for no reason. Or similar to this situation, trying to just walk in on a weekend when there's a skeletal crew prepping for Monday morning and asking them if they need help. There is no reason for me to be there, so even though I'm an employee, the warehouse manager may tell me to leave unless I can tell him a good reason why I'm there. In fact, if I look fishy, he may tell my manager on Monday why "Bob" was trying to come by the warehouse on the weekend for no reason.

 

[FAST]

I'm related to, and know, a small army of teachers, and one of them is a local union rep. As near as I can tell many of them spend a large number of their off hours at the school. In fact it's pretty hard to be a teacher and not do that even with no extra curricular activities, especially on the elementary side. So as much fun as the casual union bashing is... At least know the job you're talking about. In the midst of the summer I don't know many teachers that would be caught dead in their schools, but I imagine that many school boards would have a policy that would discourage teachers from coming and going willy nilly during the summer break when they have absolutely no reason to be there. FRANKLY, A GREAT MANY EMPLOYERS WOULDN'T WANT EMPLOYEES COMING AND GOING WHEN THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING AT THE WORKPLACE.

Thoughts on "No teachers are allowed into the building during this time!":
0) It's not like the union rep guards the door of the school in the summer, or the union has summer staff to guard the schools. Could it have been custodial staff that knew the teacher and knew he had no business being there? (Some of the grimier custodial work often gets done over the break, AFAIK.)
1) Given that it's summer break in most places could it be somebody making a joke? (AKA- "Why the hell are you here?")
2) Could have it been some kind of 'summer fun' program that didn't want to be 'uncool' by having a teacher around?
3) Could it be some kind of private function that has no obligation to accept unsolicited offers of help from some random person?
4) Some places may indeed have policies about teachers not being in the school during the middle of summer break. That would be as much board policy as anything else, AFAIK. Teachers usually go back about a week before school starts on the elementary side.
5) I'm not sure, and it may be board and school dependant, if teachers can come and go willy nilly on the weekends during the school year, but I've been with teachers (plural) in schools on the weekends during the school year. I know the elementary side better, but being an 'average' teacher isn't an 8-4 job, and being a 'good' teacher takes considerably more than that, so teachers are often in schools at odd hours even without meetings, events, and extra curricular activities. It's a little easier to have a 'normal day' on the highschool side.

I'll ask the actual union rep when I talk to them, though they're not in the TDSB (but the are in Ontario). As likely as not, it might just have been a custodian following the summer protocol and not somebody who was involved with what was going on at the school (who would have no obligation to oblige the teacher anyway).

",...but I've been with teachers (plural) in schools on the weekends during the school year."

And just what would you be doing in a school on week ends,...???

FAST

 

[hyperdog]

I just remembered a much related movie scene from Terminator 2. The scientist Dyson brings John, his mother, and Terminator Schwarzeneggar to the research company that he is the leading scientist at (so that they can destroy all the work he has made). He even has the access badge to get in, but the nighttime security guard gives him a very cold looking saying "Look Dyson. You know the rules...". Sorry I cannot find the scene in youtube to show you, but I'm certain some of you know what I'm talking about.

 

[hyperdog]

I just remembered a much related movie scene from Terminator 2. The scientist Dyson brings John, his mother, and Terminator Schwarzeneggar to the research company that he is the leading scientist at (so that they can destroy all the work he has made). He even has the access badge to get in, but the nighttime security guard gives him a very cold looking saying "Look Dyson. You know the rules...". Sorry I cannot find the scene in youtube to show you, but I'm certain some of you know what I'm talking about.

No, no. Wait a sec. From what I remember now, the security guard said "Look Dyson. You know the rules. No visitors allowed during off hours". The problem was him trying to bring his three new friends into the building. Dyson himself was allowed in (even if he just wanted to go in to jerk off).

 

[K Douglas]

The teachers union needs to be disbanded. As do most other public sector unions. Here we have a teacher who wants to do extra work (for no additional pay) and he's not allowed to? Good grief we have lost our way.

 

[The Options Menu]

",...but I've been with teachers (plural) in schools on the weekends during the school year."

And just what would you be doing in a school on week ends,...???

FAST

No banging teacher, in schools anyway. I have immediate family that were / are teachers. I have friends that are teachers. I've dated teachers. When I was a kid it was to keep an eye on me. When I was a little older it was to be put to work (shit doesn't haul itself, and classrooms and events don't decorate themselves). As an adult I've basically carried on with that when asked reasonably by family / friends / GFs. Teachers seem to always have boxes of hilariously heavy paper resources that need moving, bulletin boards that need doing, desks and workstations that need arranging, and no end of stuff like that. I been around that part of things my whole life, so I'm actually pretty useful at it, and mostly don't mind if people are nice about it.

 

[basketcase]

... If it was an event consisting only of adults, and no students at all, I have a feeling he might have been allowed in even though no one asked him to come.

I've rented gyms for sports before an would look unkindly if some random adult (teacher or not) tried to worm their way in to the event we paid for.

 

[basketcase]

The teachers union needs to be disbanded. As do most other public sector unions. Here we have a teacher who wants to do extra work (for no additional pay) and he's not allowed to? Good grief we have lost our way.

Here we have a teacher who felt like he should be allowed in to work a private event.

And as has been posted, ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING to do with unions.

 

[FAST]

Here we have a teacher who felt like he should be allowed in to work a private event.

And as has been posted, ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING to do with unions.

Try to reverse the roll, and have a none teacher try work a "union event".

Like baby sitting children in a public school.

When the Ont Libs tried to introduce this, shot down by the FUCKING unions.

Because,...that's "union work".

FAST