Toronto Passions

Goodwill Closing

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
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These types of skills (IMO) are among the most important things kids should be taught in high school. If high school is too early, perhaps every college/university student has to take a course on life skills. All the things you listed are spot on:

- Job skills (resume, interviews, dress)
- Anything to do with budgeting (controlling existing assets)
- Doing taxes effectively
- How to shop around for key stuff like cars, your first home or first rental apartment, insurance, choosing the right bank account, and all that stuff (controlling spending)
- Sounds dumb, but how to compare and shop around for the best financial vehicles like, and the pros and cons about credit cards, line of credit, debit, cash etc.....

I don't understand how in this day and age, kids don't get educated on basic stuff like this, yet students are forced to learn about the 3 types of clouds in the sky.

I was lucky and has always been good at numbers, spending and a family of people who know dollars and sense, but lots of people have no clue how that 22% interest rate on their credit card is going to take 8 years to pay off.
I'd actually put the financial skills at the top of the list and start teaching as soon as kids enter school. No matter what you do for a living be it business, art, history, etc. you need to manage your money to be able to eat, have a roof over your head, get around and hobby of course :D Better hope that lesson is learned before you have kids since it gets even harder.
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
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hornyville
A pet peeve I see is at Walmart. I don't work there, but I see wasted resources. They are all about keeping costs low, making lots of sales etc.... but they waste 4-5 employees per store..... the people who are door greeters (who don't even greet but sit in a chair), the person who stands by the escalator doing basically nothing.

They should axe these people and replace them with more able-bodied people who can stock shelves, clean up messes in aisles, more cashiers etc.... it would make their service a bit better. Heck, make one them an extra shopping cart jockey, since the parking lots can be crammed with random carts all over the place.

I don't see any value in those 4-5 people. Not only is their functional value zero, but they aren't even the "happy greeter" and such. They look miserable.
Isn't the door greeter suppose to be a deterrent to the shoplifter? Facts of life. Can't trust the poor people, (or trust the 1% people if we are to believe the news.)

The escalator person is different. They don't do that at Canadian Tire. Then again maybe the poor and 1% don't shop there.
 

explorerzip

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2006
8,127
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It comes down to what people want.
I think the public education system also needs to be more selective of who gets into such liberal arts programs even if people really want to get into them. I think young kids really need to be given a reality check about programs that don't have an obvious way to a career. Use your own money to finance your drama, English, etc degree.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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That's the parents job
Disagree.

If schools are willing to teach fancy types of math (which most people will never use), economic classes, some business and accounting classes and have kids do home ec classes in jr. high (I remember making food and sewing my own pants in grade 7), then they can surely brush up the curriculum to teach kids proper finances. I remember industrial arts class and I made a crappy cabinet in grade 8. IMO, this stuff is too early to teach 12 and 13 year olds, but hey. If the schools wanted to this, then they can surely find time to teach money skills. Finances is basically just math anyway, but instead of vague mathematical quotations, symbols and formulas, finance involves dollars and cents which applies to everyone.

So instead of teaching Tim what is quadratic coefficient tangent cosign of a kite flying 100 ft in the air eastward at 5 mph, teachers can show Tim what will happen if his debt reaches unsustainable levels given interest rates, his income, his spending etc.... And given various scenarios, what will happen or needs to happen to reach a goal.... let's say save $10,000.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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Isn't the door greeter suppose to be a deterrent to the shoplifter? Facts of life. Can't trust the poor people, (or trust the 1% people if we are to believe the news.)

The escalator person is different. They don't do that at Canadian Tire. Then again maybe the poor and 1% don't shop there.
If the door greeter is a theft deterrent, I highly doubt any crooks are intimidated by a 60 year old lady slouching in a chair, saying nothing, and staring at a wall.
 

peteeey

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2001
1,740
170
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It appears CEO Keiko "Nakamura's salary from Goodwill was $221,774 in 2014. It was reported on Ontario's annual "Sunshine List" because provincial law requires all agencies that receive government funding to report the earnings of everyone paid more than $100,000.

"Nakamura was fired as Toronto Community Housing CEO in 2011, following a city auditor's report that questioned staff spending and how the agency issued tenders for contracts."

But let's blame the union.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/goodwill-employees-live-1.3411717
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,045
3,915
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Disagree.

If schools are willing to teach fancy types of math (which most people will never use), economic classes, some business and accounting classes and have kids do home ec classes in jr. high (I remember making food and sewing my own pants in grade 7), then they can surely brush up the curriculum to teach kids proper finances. I remember industrial arts class and I made a crappy cabinet in grade 8. IMO, this stuff is too early to teach 12 and 13 year olds, but hey. If the schools wanted to this, then they can surely find time to teach money skills. Finances is basically just math anyway, but instead of vague mathematical quotations, symbols and formulas, finance involves dollars and cents which applies to everyone.

So instead of teaching Tim what is quadratic coefficient tangent cosign of a kite flying 100 ft in the air eastward at 5 mph, teachers can show Tim what will happen if his debt reaches unsustainable levels given interest rates, his income, his spending etc.... And given various scenarios, what will happen or needs to happen to reach a goal.... let's say save $10,000.
I infer from your statement that you sucked at math after it went beyond memorising multiplication tables.

When you took a dump this morning and flushed the John and it magically went away, whether you know it or not, it involved a lot of figuring out the value of X.

Same when you got in your car and pushed "start" and lo and behold it started (and stopped) and then you drove over the bridge on your way to work, and then turned on the lights in your office and then flicked on your computer.

Everything you do in your life as you do it is because some guy out there knows how the fuck to solve for X.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
First, if you read posts, you would know that I do not think a minimum wage is a cure-all. On the contrary, try to read my post again:



As you can read, I believe society must provide a living wage for all full time employees, free education to everyone's ability, including re-education for the unemployed, universal healthcare and a general welfare system.

I think we agree on the concept that all children should have fair if not equal opportunities in life. I believe Canada should go much further than it is going today, especially in the educational sector. Higher education is expensive ($35,000 a year for law school) and that seriously limits social mobility. In addition, by not developing its human capital to each persons ability, society in general suffers. There can be no doubt that the most important resource any country has, is its people.

A living wage for all full time employees is an important goal for society. A company that cannot afford to pay its employees a living wage, does not deserve to be in business. There will be others stepping in to supply goods and services. Northern European countries have regulations that ensure living wages for retail employees, and there is no shortage of retail stores in these countries.
The whole question is - what does "a living wage" mean? If it means providing the poor with sufficient money that they don't die, we're already meeting that threshold in Canada, as there is no evidence of a significant death rate among the poor here. I think what people really mean when they use that phrase is "a comfortable life" wage, and by comfortable life they mean middle class life (steady employment, own home/condo, own car, etc.)

While I understand that consumerism requires consumers in order to work, and that you have to have a significant middle class in order to have consumers, the truth is that you don't require everyone to be middle class for the system to work. There will always be poor people. The only difference socialism makes is that in such societies there are an awful lot more poor people (and fewer rich)!

Further, I don't think we need more people attending university. In fact, we already have too many. Our universities are bloated with courses which do not prepare students for productive remunerative employment in our economy (philosophy, sociology, etc.). While I think that universities should be free to offer such courses, I don't think public funding should support them. Let the idle rich study philosophy if they so choose (at the true cost of such studies)!

One of the biggest obstacles to restructuring the labour force (sorry, but there is NO prospect of any return to significant levels of blue collar manufacturing employment in Canada) is how to: a) encourage more young people to learn a trade, and b) remove the obstacles to entering a trade. For reasons that I will never understand, today's 20 year old would rather work part time at the GAP (making minimum wage) than learn to be a plumber or electrician. This is a problem with their perception of the reality of the job market/Canadian economy. The truth is that tradesmen will always be required so long as there are facilities/equipment to install, repair and maintain. This is a captive industry. You can't call a plumber in China to come and fix your sink. As to the obstacles, the primary problem is apprenticeship ratios. They are backwards. Instead of requiring 4 journeyman to one apprentice, the ratio should be 1 journeyman to 4 apprentices. What happens as a result of the current apprenticeship system is that when demand for a trade spikes (like the oil sands boom), employers can't hire new apprentice tradesmen to fill the demand because of apprenticeship ratios. As a result, they end up having to recruit people from distant places (Newfoundland) at much higher costs, or rely on immigration. Meanwhile, able bodied young Canadians sit unemployed at home dreaming of working in the back office of some insurance company (a job vacancy that won't be coming available for quite some time).

As to law school tuition, the truth is that the vast majority of law students are making a poor investment. Only a small percentage of them will ever earn the $350,000 income you reference. An education in the law is not without worth, even if your intended career is in the business world and you never intend to practice law. However, it's grossly overpriced in any context except if you end up being a top earning lawyer. Medical schools are smarter in this respect, keeping a tight rein on class sizes, ensuring that there will be a continuing demand (a shortage, currently) for doctors.

Getting back to the topic at hand, Goodwill is closing stores because they are losing money in those stores. End of story. They provided employment for people at those stores for as long as they could, and now they can't do it anymore. Frankly, if you've ever been in a Goodwill store as well as a Value Village, you would immediately understand why Goodwill would lose to the competition. Did the union contribute to the demise? Partially. They created some costs (mostly relating to staffing rules) that overran the small operating margins of these stores. Has the union held a press conference stating they are prepared to revisit these provisions of the collective agreement in order to save some jobs and keep these stores open? No, of course not! They prefer to propagate the ridiculous assertion that Goodwill is actually making money and that the closures are unnecessary. Ridiculous as that position is, it's what their members (and the media) want to hear, so they continue on with it. However, I think Goodwill was doomed anyway, given that their competition was going to beat them into the dust no matter what (Value Village, because it's better run in every way, and Salvation Army because of their reliance on volunteers (in part))
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
It appears CEO Keiko "Nakamura's salary from Goodwill was $221,774 in 2014. It was reported on Ontario's annual "Sunshine List" because provincial law requires all agencies that receive government funding to report the earnings of everyone paid more than $100,000.

"Nakamura was fired as Toronto Community Housing CEO in 2011, following a city auditor's report that questioned staff spending and how the agency issued tenders for contracts."

But let's blame the union.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/goodwill-employees-live-1.3411717
Barring some evidence that Nakamura was responsible for significant mismanagement, the focus on her (and her management past) seems ridiculous to me. If there's something to blame her for, perhaps it's her agreement to the union contract, assuming that it was foreseeable that the stores could not continue to operate based on those terms. Blaming her for her salary is nothing short of preposterous. If you want to blame anyone for that, blame the Board of Directors who hired her!

Further, the media and union pointing out that "she continues to receive her salary while worker are laid off" is the most ludicrous point of all. Of course she is continuing to receive her salary - because she's continuing to work! Anyone with any business experience knows that there is plenty of work to be done by management even following the closure of business. Inventory has to be liquidated/relocated. Assets have to be sold. Accounts have to be settled. No doubt they will try to sublet some of their leased premises. Outstanding wage and benefit claims have to be settled. This will all take some time. She (or some other CEO, if they dump her) will continue to work on these issues until all of the business is completed.

The media is not doing not anyone any favours by failing to make these obvious points. It sells more papers/ads/etc. to make the story "Serial Incompetent Entitled Elite Strikes Again".
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
Could somebody please explain to me,... just why the fuck does one worker in a unionized facility, have the "right" to make more money,... than one worker in another facility,... in the same fricken company,...???

A 1000 words or less,...please.

FAST
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,709
2,602
113
Barring some evidence that Nakamura was responsible for significant mismanagement, the focus on her (and her management past) seems ridiculous to me. If there's something to blame her for, perhaps it's her agreement to the union contract, assuming that it was foreseeable that the stores could not continue to operate based on those terms. Blaming her for her salary is nothing short of preposterous. If you want to blame anyone for that, blame the Board of Directors who hired her!

Further, the media and union pointing out that "she continues to receive her salary while worker are laid off" is the most ludicrous point of all. Of course she is continuing to receive her salary - because she's continuing to work! Anyone with any business experience knows that there is plenty of work to be done by management even following the closure of business. Inventory has to be liquidated/relocated. Assets have to be sold. Accounts have to be settled. No doubt they will try to sublet some of their leased premises. Outstanding wage and benefit claims have to be settled. This will all take some time. She (or some other CEO, if they dump her) will continue to work on these issues until all of the business is completed.

The media is not doing not anyone any favours by failing to make these obvious points. It sells more papers/ads/etc. to make the story "Serial Incompetent Entitled Elite Strikes Again".
100% ^^^ :thumb:

You said exactly what I was going to say in response to peteeey.
 

peteeey

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2001
1,740
170
63
From CityNews:
"According to the public relations firm Brown & Cohen Communications, Nakamura is also not being paid at this time but she has retained her job as CEO."

Barring some evidence that Nakamura was responsible for significant mismanagement, the focus on her (and her management past) seems ridiculous to me. If there's something to blame her for, perhaps it's her agreement to the union contract, assuming that it was foreseeable that the stores could not continue to operate based on those terms. Blaming her for her salary is nothing short of preposterous. If you want to blame anyone for that, blame the Board of Directors who hired her!

Further, the media and union pointing out that "she continues to receive her salary while worker are laid off" is the most ludicrous point of all. Of course she is continuing to receive her salary - because she's continuing to work! Anyone with any business experience knows that there is plenty of work to be done by management even following the closure of business. Inventory has to be liquidated/relocated. Assets have to be sold. Accounts have to be settled. No doubt they will try to sublet some of their leased premises. Outstanding wage and benefit claims have to be settled. This will all take some time. She (or some other CEO, if they dump her) will continue to work on these issues until all of the business is completed.

The media is not doing not anyone any favours by failing to make these obvious points. It sells more papers/ads/etc. to make the story "Serial Incompetent Entitled Elite Strikes Again".
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
2,928
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I infer from your statement that you sucked at math after it went beyond memorising multiplication tables.

When you took a dump this morning and flushed the John and it magically went away, whether you know it or not, it involved a lot of figuring out the value of X.

Same when you got in your car and pushed "start" and lo and behold it started (and stopped) and then you drove over the bridge on your way to work, and then turned on the lights in your office and then flicked on your computer.

Everything you do in your life as you do it is because some guy out there knows how the fuck to solve for X.
Actually I did well in math. Anything to do with numbers I did great in. And even to this day still do. While some people need to break out a calculator, I just do it in my head.

But hey, nice assumption you had though.

The majority of math taught in high school is pointless as the majority of people don't use it in that way. Specialized formulas should be for dedicated math/science majors in college and university. Teaching grade 9 kids what a quadratic equation is with zero relevance or even effort to spin it into something interesting will make lots of kids eyes glaze over.

On the other hand, everyone lives life using dollars and sense.... which comes from a job and living on your own or with a family. If more people perked up their skills, the whole economy should grow as the labour pool is bigger and brighter. And if they budgeted their money better, you'd have less idiots in debt. I've been laid off like many people. Big deal. If you have savings, you can ride the wave until you get another job. even if i didn't get a sev package, it wouldn't bother me anyway as I had years of savings buffer.

For me, all the money I put into EI and such has been worthless. That's because when I was laid off, I got severance and got a new job a month later. So I didn't even get to collect one EI cheque.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
2,928
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The whole question is - what does "a living wage" mean? If it means providing the poor with sufficient money that they don't die, we're already meeting that threshold in Canada, as there is no evidence of a significant death rate among the poor here. I think what people really mean when they use that phrase is "a comfortable life" wage, and by comfortable life they mean middle class life (steady employment, own home/condo, own car, etc.)

While I understand that consumerism requires consumers in order to work, and that you have to have a significant middle class in order to have consumers, the truth is that you don't require everyone to be middle class for the system to work. There will always be poor people. The only difference socialism makes is that in such societies there are an awful lot more poor people (and fewer rich)!

Further, I don't think we need more people attending university. In fact, we already have too many. Our universities are bloated with courses which do not prepare students for productive remunerative employment in our economy (philosophy, sociology, etc.). While I think that universities should be free to offer such courses, I don't think public funding should support them. Let the idle rich study philosophy if they so choose (at the true cost of such studies)!

One of the biggest obstacles to restructuring the labour force (sorry, but there is NO prospect of any return to significant levels of blue collar manufacturing employment in Canada) is how to: a) encourage more young people to learn a trade, and b) remove the obstacles to entering a trade. For reasons that I will never understand, today's 20 year old would rather work part time at the GAP (making minimum wage) than learn to be a plumber or electrician. This is a problem with their perception of the reality of the job market/Canadian economy. The truth is that tradesmen will always be required so long as there are facilities/equipment to install, repair and maintain. This is a captive industry. You can't call a plumber in China to come and fix your sink. As to the obstacles, the primary problem is apprenticeship ratios. They are backwards. Instead of requiring 4 journeyman to one apprentice, the ratio should be 1 journeyman to 4 apprentices. What happens as a result of the current apprenticeship system is that when demand for a trade spikes (like the oil sands boom), employers can't hire new apprentice tradesmen to fill the demand because of apprenticeship ratios. As a result, they end up having to recruit people from distant places (Newfoundland) at much higher costs, or rely on immigration. Meanwhile, able bodied young Canadians sit unemployed at home dreaming of working in the back office of some insurance company (a job vacancy that won't be coming available for quite some time).

As to law school tuition, the truth is that the vast majority of law students are making a poor investment. Only a small percentage of them will ever earn the $350,000 income you reference. An education in the law is not without worth, even if your intended career is in the business world and you never intend to practice law. However, it's grossly overpriced in any context except if you end up being a top earning lawyer. Medical schools are smarter in this respect, keeping a tight rein on class sizes, ensuring that there will be a continuing demand (a shortage, currently) for doctors.

Getting back to the topic at hand, Goodwill is closing stores because they are losing money in those stores. End of story. They provided employment for people at those stores for as long as they could, and now they can't do it anymore. Frankly, if you've ever been in a Goodwill store as well as a Value Village, you would immediately understand why Goodwill would lose to the competition. Did the union contribute to the demise? Partially. They created some costs (mostly relating to staffing rules) that overran the small operating margins of these stores. Has the union held a press conference stating they are prepared to revisit these provisions of the collective agreement in order to save some jobs and keep these stores open? No, of course not! They prefer to propagate the ridiculous assertion that Goodwill is actually making money and that the closures are unnecessary. Ridiculous as that position is, it's what their members (and the media) want to hear, so they continue on with it. However, I think Goodwill was doomed anyway, given that their competition was going to beat them into the dust no matter what (Value Village, because it's better run in every way, and Salvation Army because of their reliance on volunteers (in part))
I think the reason why the types of out there seems less about blue collar/hands-on and more about white collar is a number of factors:

- Big cities seem to be stressing white collar jobs and condos and such
- White collar jobs and retail seem more fun and social

I think people are smart enough to know that a trademan can make big bucks. But people simply don't want to do it. They rather sit back and do white collar jobs, all this internet stuff, emailing, fancy coffee shops, work from home on a laptop, social stuff, networking and all that. As opposed to doing blue collar type work.

Combine that with the image of condos, hip, young professionals, and I don't see many people now wanting to come home in over-alls and boots.

One thing that will always hurt the image of blue collar roles is that they seem much less friendly. Go to an office, or store or bank and people are very nice and all. Call a plumber, and half the time it's a slobby guy, walks in your home with his dirty boots with no shame, and there's always the potential for getting ripped off or overcharged. Yeah, we understand it's not a job meant for suit and tie clothes, but can you at least act personable? Heck, it's a service job after all isn't it?

The last plumber I called ripped me off too. Had to get hold of my credit card company and overturn his charge. Not only did the ass try to charge me, he also broke a pipe and didn't answer calls back to come back and re-fix it. And the ass still tried to charge my credit card. That's a perfect example of the stigma with guys like plumbers.

So with the world being more interconnected, social ad such, I see people viewing trades jobs as anti-social.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
2,928
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Further, the media and union pointing out that "she continues to receive her salary while worker are laid off" is the most ludicrous point of all. Of course she is continuing to receive her salary - because she's continuing to work! Anyone with any business experience knows that there is plenty of work to be done by management even following the closure of business. Inventory has to be liquidated/relocated. Assets have to be sold. Accounts have to be settled. No doubt they will try to sublet some of their leased premises. Outstanding wage and benefit claims have to be settled. This will all take some time. She (or some other CEO, if they dump her) will continue to work on these issues until all of the business is completed.
Exactly.

What non-management people don't realize is that people with management responsibilities have to do a lot of stuff. Never mind the salaried pay with zero OT wages. I'm just talking about tasks. While Joe Sixpack comes in at 9 and then heads for the hills at 5, the vast majority of them have zero concern or responsibility outside of their hours. Us management have to do all kinds of BS like:

- Handling employees who are poor performers
- Handling employees who are having family troubles
- Trying to smooth out or handle Tom who hates working with Betty. All the while, Jessie is badmouthing everyone, so nobody likes working with her
- Trying to run a dept with people who are chronically sick, or at home due to reason X, Y, Z
- Having to run a dept smoothly even though Marie and Stacey go on mat leave every other year, so someone has to be hired on contract for a year, or we ask Jennifer if she can transfer over and cover for a year. And then when Betty is back, we have to tell Jennifer to go back to her another role because Betty wants her old job back
- Having to make tough business/strategic decisions for the best interest of the company
- Needing to warn or fire someone..... name one sane person who likes going through this duty.... especially if the person getting nailed is a nice warmhearted person
- Being available before work, after work, working weekends
- Being tasked to do last minute things that might not even be your specialty, but for sake of the team you have to do your best and do it using your best judgement
- Having to put up with stonewalling union workers, even though your decision is trying to be best for the company, sales and not pissing off customers
- Urgent business/warehouse/shipping issues crop up and the warehouse guys don't seem to care. They'll come in and do it only if paid more
- Shipment are picked and loaded wrong. The customer comes back and the account manager gets yelled at to ensure orders are correct, even though he's not the one handling the handling/logistics of it. Or the warehouse manager gets lambasted for poorly filled shipments. None of the lower level workers will get that negative communication direct from the customer head office or carrier as they are not the contact person
 

lewd

Member
Aug 29, 2001
950
1
18
Barring some evidence that Nakamura was responsible for significant mismanagement, the focus on her (and her management past) seems ridiculous to me. If there's something to blame her for, perhaps it's her agreement to the union contract, assuming that it was foreseeable that the stores could not continue to operate based on those terms. Blaming her for her salary is nothing short of preposterous. If you want to blame anyone for that, blame the Board of Directors who hired her!

Further, the media and union pointing out that "she continues to receive her salary while worker are laid off" is the most ludicrous point of all. Of course she is continuing to receive her salary - because she's continuing to work! Anyone with any business experience knows that there is plenty of work to be done by management even following the closure of business. Inventory has to be liquidated/relocated. Assets have to be sold. Accounts have to be settled. No doubt they will try to sublet some of their leased premises. Outstanding wage and benefit claims have to be settled. This will all take some time. She (or some other CEO, if they dump her) will continue to work on these issues until all of the business is completed.

The media is not doing not anyone any favours by failing to make these obvious points. It sells more papers/ads/etc. to make the story "Serial Incompetent Entitled Elite Strikes Again".
At the same time, you can't simply absolve Nakamura of any blame. As a CEO, you don't let things get to this point without some level of incompetence. There's a reason CEO's get paid a lot...it's to perform.
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
2,928
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At the same time, you can't simply absolve Nakamura of any blame. As a CEO, you don't let things get to this point without some level of incompetence. There's a reason CEO's get paid a lot...it's to perform.
True.

But it may have been a poor decision to begin with.

Does Nakamura have any experience running a retailer?
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
3,076
58
48
hornyville
One thing that will always hurt the image of blue collar roles is that they seem much less friendly. Go to an office, or store or bank and people are very nice and all.
You're so right about this. Most of these blue collar types have such a fucking attitude, they think they are a lawyers. Even lawyers aren't that bad. Not by a long shot. LOL.
 

benstt

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2004
1,554
426
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Actually I did well in math. Anything to do with numbers I did great in. And even to this day still do. While some people need to break out a calculator, I just do it in my head.

But hey, nice assumption you had though.

The majority of math taught in high school is pointless as the majority of people don't use it in that way. Specialized formulas should be for dedicated math/science majors in college and university. Teaching grade 9 kids what a quadratic equation is with zero relevance or even effort to spin it into something interesting will make lots of kids eyes glaze over.
You're good at arithmetic maybe, but that's not really math. They stop using numbers quickly in real math.

The hard fact is that we need to identify early on those who can handle advanced topics in maths and sciences, and start laying the basic foundations as early as possible. Waiting until university is too late, the amount of material they need to master is too big. We need to develop these people, as they actually can make a huge difference in creating real new economic value.

Everyone should also take a basic business and/or home finance course though. My school had those years ago, along with other great fundamentals. I took shop along with everyone else who was smart enough to make time for it. I can't believe the white collar dudes I know that lack any basic automotive, carpentry, electrical or plumbing skills.

My point is there was enough room in my education for these fundamentals, but also quadratic equations. Leave em both in.
 
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