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Poll - who has won the global warming bet

Who has won the global warming bet

  • Moviefan-2

    Votes: 15 62.5%
  • Frankfooter

    Votes: 9 37.5%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
The full terms of the bet (including the parts that Frankfooter keeps deleting) and a detailed analysis of the results were posted on Dec. 20:

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...e-bet-on-global-warming&p=5429544#post5429544

Frankfooter lost.

---

If someone other than Frankfooter offers to defend Frankfooter's position, I will be happy to debate that person.

Otherwise, I leave Frankfooter to his fairy-tale world and his fairy-tale beliefs.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,202
113
The full terms of the bet (including the parts that Frankfooter keeps deleting) and a detailed analysis of the results were posted on Dec. 20:

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...e-bet-on-global-warming&p=5429544#post5429544

Frankfooter lost.

Nope.

That page includes bullshit excuses on why you thought normal NASA methods were fraud so you therefore didn't have to include 2015's numbers on a bet on the 2015 temperature anomaly. Links and explanations showing the data remains untouched, or unaltered, available in this post:
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-warming-bet&p=5447249&viewfull=1#post5447249
The bet was:
We might get a bet, once you agree to use one chart for recording the results.

For example, your NASA chart that shows 1995 at 0.43 degrees Celsius put 2014 at 0.68 degrees in 2014: http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

If that's the chart you're saying will hit 0.83 at the end of 2015, we definitely have a bet.

That NASA link is still live to the chart they are still updating and which includes data showing that I won the bet.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt

You have tried to cheat by arguing:
1) Normal NASA methods were 'enron-style fraud' and therefore you shouldn't include 2015's numbers when they showed you losing
2) The bet should have been retroactively changed to 0.86ºC after you started losing
3) The bet should be retroactively changed to 0.89ºC after 0.86ºC started losing


You tried to cheat, but have failed.
You lost the bet.

Time to pay up loser.
 
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AK-47

Armed to the tits
Mar 6, 2009
6,697
1
0
In the 6
Its pretty fucking cold tonight. Can we please have some more El Nino or global warming???

Thanks in advance :)
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,202
113
Yup.

I'm going to wait until NASA updates the chart the bet was made on:
We might get a bet, once you agree to use one chart for recording the results.

For example, your NASA chart that shows 1995 at 0.43 degrees Celsius put 2014 at 0.68 degrees in 2014: http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

If that's the chart you're saying will hit 0.83 at the end of 2015, we definitely have a bet.
But the final numbers are out and moviefan lost the bet, over and over again.
He lost the actual bet of 0.83ºC.
The final numbers beat moviefan's 'adjusted' numbers, when he first tried to retroactively change the bet.
They also beat the 0.2ºC per decade, IPCC projection that the bet was based on.
(1995 @ 0.46ºC to 2015 @ 0.86ºC)
http://climate.nasa.gov/system/inte...original/647_Global_Temperature_Data_File.txt
And according to the MET and NOAA (though not NASA) it even beat moviefan's retroactive claim that the bet was made on a year over year change of 0.15ºC. (when the bet was made on a fixed number, not on moveable targets).

I'm sure moviefan will show up and whine about how NASA updated their weighting, which they do regularly and state on their FAQ page that their adjustments sometimes go up and sometimes go down, but that its a normal part of improving their work. And I'm sure he'll whine that its a different chart, though the link in the original bet is still active and still goes to the same NASA chart (and again, it hasn't been updated with 2015's final numbers yet). And I'm sure he'll also try to say that NASA changed the data, which of course they didn't do.

The problem is that moviefan is a denier, and as such can't admit that he was wrong, nor will he man up and pay up.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
http://climate.nasa.gov/system/inte...original/647_Global_Temperature_Data_File.txt
And according to the MET and NOAA (though not NASA) it even beat moviefan's retroactive claim that the bet was made on a year over year change of 0.15ºC. (when the bet was made on a fixed number, not on moveable targets).
How predictable.

One month after we settled, Frankfooter tries to rewrite the outcome by switching to NOAA and Met Office numbers -- even though the bet was explicitly based on NASA's data -- and mixes in some bullshit about a "retroactive" change to the size of the bet.

In fact, the size of the bet was clearly described in the original terms. Working from the data that NASA was using at the time (May 2015), we bet on a year-over-year increase in the anomaly from 0.68ºC in 2014 to 0.83ºC in 2015. There's nothing "retroactive" about the size of that increase -- it was 0.15ºC in May 2015 and it remains 0.15ºC today.

We might get a bet, once you agree to use one chart for recording the results.

For example, your NASA chart that shows 1995 at 0.43 degrees Celsius put 2014 at 0.68 degrees in 2014: http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

If that's the chart you're saying will hit 0.83 at the end of 2015, we definitely have a bet.
Ok bets on.
Using that NASA figure of 0.43ºC anomaly for 1995 and waiting for the 2015 NASA anomaly figures to come out.
Frankfooter knows all too well that the difference between the two years was 0.15ºC. He admitted as much just 10 days ago.

It was a year-over-year increase of 0.15ºC of the 2014 anomaly from the time of the bet.
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-warming-bet&p=5445145&viewfull=1#post5445145

Indeed, it was.

And what did NASA actually report? Here's the money quote that comes directly from NASA's news release.

NASA said:
Globally-averaged temperatures in 2015 shattered the previous mark set in 2014 by 0.23 degrees Fahrenheit (0.13 Celsius).
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/...d-shattering-global-warm-temperatures-in-2015

Last time I checked, 0.13ºC was less than 0.15ºC. Putting aside that Frankfooter has broken his pledge to settle up last month based on the numbers that existed at that time, the final numbers reaffirm that Frankfooter lost the bet.

More importantly, the numbers -- which came at the end of a super El Nino year -- reaffirm that the IPCC's predictions have been consistently and spectacularly wrong.

(For the record, he isn't calculating the increase to the 1995 anomaly in a way that is legitimately comparable to the new NASA numbers. But I won't bore everyone with the details unless there is actually someone foolish enough to think that NASA waved a magic wand and made the past temperatures cooler or warmer).
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
Nothing new,...

Agreed, it's easy to be a denier when your house is a few hundred feet above sea level but I wonder how many deniers there are in the Maldives?

http://ecowatch.com/2015/05/22/maldives-underwater-climate-change/
Here's the problem,...NASA and the other UNEMPLOYABLE CLUBS have been preaching this bull shit to the stupid masses.

But,...as this NASA graph shows,...the oceans have been rising from at least 1880, and if research is done, the oceans have been rising from recorded time,...which obviously proves,... NOT mans doing.

http://climate.nasa.gov/system/resources/detail_files/125_3-sea-level-rise-infographic-full.jpg

One of many bull shit proclamations that these tax leaching clubs put out.

And another example is,...in their own words, food creation for the population of the whole world, is by far the biggest contributor to the POSSIBILITY of man actually having ANY effect on the earths global temp.

And what really pisses me off,...they treat the general public like fools.

Just confirms once again, what ass hats these people are.

Don't be influenced by a certain poster here, who constantly screams on about how heating your house,...and putting food on your table is going to destroy the planet.
He is hopping for one thing only,...the overthrow of the the free market/capitalism system of economics by socialism/communism.
He does NOT give a shit about the environment,...could care less.


FAST
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Do the NOAA numbers show the stagnation claim that you keep parroting?
I haven't had any reason to examine the NOAA's numbers, but if you mean NASA's numbers, the data prior to the super El Nino year clearly show the answer is yes.

I'm sure you wouldn't want to make an argument based solely on a super El Nino year. After all, the believers in AGW say that would be "cherry picking." :Eek:
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,454
6,700
113
I haven't had any reason to examine the NOAA's numbers
You mean other than defending your claims of your beliefs being based on evidence.

And I called you out on your wanting to ignore any years that don't support your claims. By the way, this current super nino event is seen as comparable to 1998. The anomaly in 1998 was 0.63 C. I wouldn't call a 30% increase between the two years stagnant. Maybe you have a different definition of the word stagnant though.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
You mean other than defending your claims of your beliefs being based on evidence.

And I called you out on your wanting to ignore any years that don't support your claims. By the way, this current super nino event is seen as comparable to 1998. The anomaly in 1998 was 0.63 C. I wouldn't call a 30% increase between the two years stagnant. Maybe you have a different definition of the word stagnant though.
But I'm sure you would call the period in the 21st century prior to 2015 "stagnant," which is what I said. I'm certain you recall that I made that statement well before the super El Nino had ever been confirmed (and I wasn't using the previous El Nino as my starting point).

And let's not forget that the satellite data show that 1998 was still the warmest year on record.

http://www.reportingclimatescience....-warmest-december-and-third-warmest-year.html

http://www.reportingclimatescience....es-with-rss-data-2015-third-warmest-year.html

I'm sure you would also agree that if you compare the NASA numbers with the IPCC's predicted increases in 2001 of about 0.35ºC per decade -- or about 0.6ºC over the 17-year time period you're using -- you would agree that NASA's reported increase of 0.24ºC is barely more than one-third of the prediction (and that's after the NOAA/NASA "adjustments").

You don't need me to remind you what that tells us about the IPCC's predictions.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,454
6,700
113
But I'm sure you would call the period in the 21st century prior to 2015 "stagnant," which is what I said. I'm certain you recall that I made that statement well before the super El Nino had ever been confirmed (and I wasn't using the previous El Nino as my starting point).

And let's not forget that the satellite data show that 1998 was still the warmest year on record.....
Umm. NOAA just declared 2015 by far the warmest year on record, the anomaly 30% higher than 1998. Just because you don't like what the data says is no excuse to pretend it doesn't exist.

2015 is warmest year on record, NOAA and NASA say
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/20/us/noaa-2015-warmest-year/

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/summary-info/global/201512

And no, the temperature wasn't stagnant as clearly shown by actual data, the data fits within the IPCC predictions, and there is no scientific conspiracy to lie to the public. All your beliefs are based solely on your refusal to look at any data you don't like.

p.s. El Nino would have had little to do with global weather in the first half of the year. Yet despite this, January, February, and March 2015 all had anomalies above 0.8 C and 15 of the 20 hottest months have occurred since 2014.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,202
113
How predictable.

One month after we settled, Frankfooter tries to rewrite the outcome by switching to NOAA and Met Office numbers -- even though the bet was explicitly based on NASA's data -- and mixes in some bullshit about a "retroactive" change to the size of the bet.
False.
I quoted NASA's numbers and noted that NOAA and MET numbers beat even your ridiculous claim that the bet was a year over year bet, and not a bet on a fixed number.

In fact, the size of the bet was clearly described in the original terms. Working from the data that NASA was using at the time (May 2015), we bet on a year-over-year increase in the anomaly from 0.68ºC in 2014 to 0.83ºC in 2015. There's nothing "retroactive" about the size of that increase -- it was 0.15ºC in May 2015 and it remains 0.15ºC today.

False, we didn't bet on a year over year number. That is you trying to retroactively change the terms after you lost. Twice.
The bet was based on the decadal projections of 0.2ºC from the IPCC, based on the published 0.43ºC NASA number at the time. We used that to get the number we bet on, 0.83 (0.43 + [2x 0.2] = 0.83).
Nowhere in the bet or IPCC projections is there mention of a 0.15º year over year change.
Pure nonsense.


Frankfooter knows all too well that the difference between the two years was 0.15ºC. He admitted as much just 10 days ago.
Again, that is your note after the fact. It wasn't part of the bet or part of any IPCC projection, which was the basis for the bet.




And what did NASA actually report? Here's the money quote that comes directly from NASA's news release.
NASA has updated the chart, the number they published is 0.87ºC.
http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/
Same chart from the bet, now updated with 2015's numbers.
And they show I won the bet.

Last time I checked, 0.13ºC was less than 0.15ºC. Putting aside that Frankfooter has broken his pledge to settle up last month based on the numbers that existed at that time, the final numbers reaffirm that Frankfooter lost the bet.
The bet was not on 0.15ºC.
This was the bet:
We might get a bet, once you agree to use one chart for recording the results.

For example, your NASA chart that shows 1995 at 0.43 degrees Celsius put 2014 at 0.68 degrees in 2014: http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

If that's the chart you're saying will hit 0.83 at the end of 2015, we definitely have a bet.
Note that the same chart is now updated, showing 0.87ºC.
Way over the terms of the bet.

More importantly, the numbers -- which came at the end of a super El Nino year -- reaffirm that the IPCC's predictions have been consistently and spectacularly wrong.
Nope. The bet was based of IPCC projections of 0.2ºC per decade. Even with the updated earlier numbers the IPCC is deadly accurate. The updated 1995 numbers show 0.47ºC, and two decades later its 0.8675ºC which is pretty much spot on @ 0.2ºC per decade.
Deadly accurate.


(For the record, he isn't calculating the increase to the 1995 anomaly in a way that is legitimately comparable to the new NASA numbers. But I won't bore everyone with the details unless there is actually someone foolish enough to think that NASA waved a magic wand and made the past temperatures cooler or warmer).
For the record, the bet is won on the original numbers and the updated numbers with your 'adjusted' claim as well.
I won the bet we made and the IPCC projections are also shown to be accurate with the final published NASA numbers.


Moviefan lost.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,202
113
But I'm sure you would call the period in the 21st century prior to 2015 "stagnant," which is what I said. I'm certain you recall that I made that statement well before the super El Nino had ever been confirmed (and I wasn't using the previous El Nino as my starting point).
Stagnant?
You really can't read a chart, can you?
Still making the same claims years after they've been blown out the water.
Look at the chart we bet on and honestly tell me that its a flat line in the 21st century.
http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

And let's not forget that the satellite data show that 1998 was still the warmest year on record.
Oh god.
We live on the surface of the planet, not in the clouds.
Using satellite records of the lower troposphere in an argument about surface temperatures is really, really stupid.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,202
113
And finally.

The bet:
We might get a bet, once you agree to use one chart for recording the results.

For example, your NASA chart that shows 1995 at 0.43 degrees Celsius put 2014 at 0.68 degrees in 2014: http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

If that's the chart you're saying will hit 0.83 at the end of 2015, we definitely have a bet
.
The NASA chart in the bet is now updated with 2015 numbers.
0.87ºC
http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

Moviefan, you lost the bet.
As loser you must buy these two books, read them and review them here:
http://www.amazon.ca/The-Hockey-Stick-Climate-Wars/dp/0231152558
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/05...=as2&tag=grlasbl0a-20&linkId=F7NQQFQ4THAO2JDE
 

nobody123

serial onanist
Feb 1, 2012
3,567
5
38
nowhere
With all due respect, why do you keep fucking that chicken, Frank? This guy has obviously got his fingers so deep in his ears shouting LALALALALACAN'THEARYOOOOOOOO that the tips are meeting. Some people never will join the reality-based community, no matter what happens.
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
17,887
243
63
Does it matter who is right?

Either way, thehe way in which we neglect the planet is going to kill us.

Will it be food shortage, running out of natural resources, destruction of ecosystems, pollution reaching a critical point?

Or we might kill ourselves off with war before it gets tp thst point.

So i say fuck it and book another session.
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
17,887
243
63
I didnt vote because i don't know which person supports which stance.

But you have to be pretty foolish to think that human activity in the last century is not having an adverse effect oncthe planet.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
And no, the temperature wasn't stagnant as clearly shown by actual data, the data fits within the IPCC predictions....
The numbers you cited show the temperature increase was just a little more than one-third of what the IPCC predicted. That means the predictions were spectacularly wrong, according to your numbers.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Nope. The bet was based of IPCC projections of 0.2ºC per decade. Even with the updated earlier numbers the IPCC is deadly accurate. The updated 1995 numbers show 0.47ºC, and two decades later its 0.8675ºC which is pretty much spot on @ 0.2ºC per decade.
Bullshit. You don't know how to do the math to properly adjust the data for the new data set.

The bet was based on the IPCC's predictions of temperature increases of 0.2ºC per decade, not numerical changes produced retroactively through changes in methodology.

If you do the math properly, you get the same adjusted bet using either 1995 or 2014 as your starting point, and it works out to 0.89ºC.

I don't have time to explain it to you now. I'll show you how the math actually works this evening.

Suffice to say, 0.87ºC on your new NASA data set is less than 0.89ºC. You lost.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
With all due respect, why do you keep fucking that chicken, Frank? This guy has obviously got his fingers so deep in his ears shouting LALALALALACAN'THEARYOOOOOOOO that the tips are meeting. Some people never will join the reality-based community, no matter what happens.
Frankfooter has argued that 83 km per hour and 83 mph are the exact same speed because they both have the number 83 in them. That's not the "reality" on the highways that I travel on.

He has also spent weeks arguing that a change from 0.68ºC to 0.83ºC isn't an increase of 0.15ºC. So much for his "reality." :biggrin1:
 
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