Hey brother can you spare a $billion to bailout Bombardier?

[nottyboi]

A "write-off" means a dead asset with no hope for recovery or payback. It's a real loss that's finally being recognized on paper.

Not at all, it was a Write down on Cseries, Lear 85 was a write off. A write down aligns book value to the value derived within a relevant accounting period. It will take BBD about 6-8 years to make back the money they sunk into Cseries that is in excess of reasonable by GAAP standards, so they have the leeway to take the write down. When new management joins, you take EVERY writedown you can. It can only make you look better and your bonuses bigger down the road.

 

[nottyboi]

Cat, but it's throwing good money after bad.

We could use that money for infrastructure. OTOH, maybe it might mean we also get a billion dollars more in Ontario if we cry harder to Justin assuming he gives in to Bombardier/Quebec?

And how do you know that for sure?

 

[nottyboi]

A "write-off" means a dead asset with no hope for recovery or payback. It's a real loss that's finally being recognized on paper.

No does not mean that at all. In regard to C it was a write down not a write off, and a write off does not mean the asset has not value, but that its value is difficult to gauge or may take a great deal of time to be realized, or cannot be obtained on the open market.. many reasons.

 

[james t kirk]

. I think Canada has been lulled into a false sense of prosperity by its commodity, housing and banking industries, all three will be hit hard in the near future IMHO.

Maybe.

Maybe not. You know what they say, "even a broken clock is right twice a day."

I wouldn't be so keen to write Canada off if I were you. (Despite your somewhat wishful thinking.)

BTW, the commodity market has been in the dumper for about 5 years now. So that's nothing new.

 

[james t kirk]

When the PQ was in power, they would back Bombardier down to the last gasp and then attempt CPR on the dead body. Bombardier is the epitome of Quebec industry. The Liberal government in power is no less committed to the Bomber, but the times where Bomber can go to the Quebec government and say " Bombardiers says, gimme money " is over. The get out of trouble free card is a lot less powerful now especially in times of austerity.

Fucking hell, you couldn't be more incorrect if you tried.

BBD and the PQ were always at war. BBD is a staunch federalist company. Always has been. Both old man Bombardier and Laurent Beaudoin were known to "have the talk" with their employees and tell them that a separate Quebec would mean BBD moving down the 401 to Toronto. Drove the PQ'ists crazy.

You really should learn or at least read a bit before you spout off at the mouth.

Here, read.....

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...aders_sound_warning_on_pq_values_charter.html

 

[SkyRider]

As far as Boeing is concerned, Airbus has been bitching forever that Boeing uses its military wing RnD in its commercial wing (and it's probably true.)

The Americans support Boeing. The Europeans support Airbus. The Brazilians support Embraer. Canada/Quebec is late to the airplane manufacturer support party. After all, we killed the Arrow.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Not at all, it was a Write down on Cseries, Lear 85 was a write off. A write down aligns book value to the value derived within a relevant accounting period. It will take BBD about 6-8 years to make back the money they sunk into Cseries that is in excess of reasonable by GAAP standards, so they have the leeway to take the write down. When new management joins, you take EVERY writedown you can. It can only make you look better and your bonuses bigger down the road.

You originally said 'write-off' NB, not 'write-down'. The latter is an adjustment to the recorded book value but the former is the elimination of the entire recorded amount.

 

[james t kirk]

The Americans support Boeing. The Europeans support Airbus. The Brazilians support Embraer. Canada/Quebec is late to the airplane manufacturer support party. After all, we killed the Arrow.

Correct.

Canada as a country needs to step up to the plate and help the bomber sort out. (Once bbd is just bbd and not bbd.b)

I'm a bit of a dreamer and I figure for the kind of money Harper was talking about giving to the Americans for their fucking useless piece of junk F-35, we should be re-establishing the Arrow program. Everyone knows it's going to be a boondoggle, but at least it will be our boondoggle and the money will be staying in Canada.

For that to happen, there's only BBD.

 

[SkyRider]

I'm all for helping out Canadian value added manufacturers and high tech companies.

One thing that pissed me off was the Harperites lack of support for Canadian companies. They did nothing for Nortel nor Blackberry (nee RIM). On top of that they tried to destroy the indigenous Canadian telecom companies by shutting them out of wireless auctions and favoring foreign telecom companies.

 

[james t kirk]

One thing that pissed me off was the Harperites lack of support for Canadian companies. They did nothing for Nortel nor Blackberry (nee RIM). On top of that they tried to destroy the indigenous Canadian telecom companies by shutting them out of wireless auctions and favoring foreign telecom companies.

Correct.

Harper was a Canadian Neo-con who despised Ontario and Quebec.

Nortel was fucked up, but it was THEE leading telecommunications company in the world at one time. It could have been re-organized, and restructured and made a viable company going forward. But that would have taken a lot of effort, skill, and money. It was a whole hell of a lot easier just to dig black goo out of the ground in Alberta. Harper was just pandering to his base.

 

[SkyRider]

When it comes to accountants being truthful, well, you know the old joke.....ask an accountant "what's 2 + 2?" and a good accountant will always answer, "whatever you want it to be"

Ask 10 accountants to calculate the "cost" of making a product and you get 11 different answers. Ever ask a banker: "what is her cost of funds?"?

 

[GPIDEAL]

No does not mean that at all. In regard to C it was a write down not a write off, and a write off does not mean the asset has not value, but that its value is difficult to gauge or may take a great deal of time to be realized, or cannot be obtained on the open market.. many reasons.

I guess I'm speaking generally for small enterprises.

You sound more like a business man or stock promoter than a conservative accountant. Okay, then salvage value lol.

What are we talking about? A discontinued operation? Do they keep the plant in suspended animation or mothball it?

 

[GPIDEAL]

And how do you know that for sure?

'Maybe'.

What is the long term historical success record for Bombardier?

 

[GPIDEAL]

Ask 10 accountants to calculate the "cost" of making a product and you get 11 different answers. Ever ask a banker: "what is her cost of funds?"?

Maybe but they shouldn't be far off.

There's less creative accounting in this day and age then there used to be in the days of Enron and World Com with the fall of Arthur Andersen, etc. etc.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Correct.

Harper was a Canadian Neo-con who despised Ontario and Quebec.

Nortel was fucked up, but it was THEE leading telecommunications company in the world at one time. It could have been re-organized, and restructured and made a viable company going forward. But that would have taken a lot of effort, skill, and money. It was a whole hell of a lot easier just to dig black goo out of the ground in Alberta. Harper was just pandering to his base.

True true.

Like Diefenbaker scrubbing the Arrow and supporting arms purchases from the Americans.

 

[SkyRider]

Here is another Bombardier fcuk up.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...om-line-is-anything-the-ttc-should-care-about

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Fucking hell, you couldn't be more incorrect if you tried. Tell me exactly how I was incorrect.

BBD and the PQ were always at war. BBD is a staunch federalist company. Always has been. Both old man Bombardier and Laurent Beaudoin were known to "have the talk" with their employees and tell them that a separate Quebec would mean BBD moving down the 401 to Toronto. Drove the PQ'ists crazy. Bombardier was always able to get what they want out of the Quebec government

You really should learn or at least read a bit before you spout off at the mouth.
Maybe it is you that has spouted off at the mouth, show me where I am wrong.

Here, read.....Your article tells of how Bombardier could call the shots and get what they want. ( proving my point ) That is what I said be it PQ or Liberal governments. I added that in these times of austerity it may be a little more difficult. ( but still doable )

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...aders_sound_warning_on_pq_values_charter.html

All you say may be true, even though the PQ and Bomber were not good friends it is still the fiduciary responsibility of the owner and officers of Bombardier to seek and secure financial help from wherever they can. Be it from PQ or Liberal governments. Bombardier is the jewel in the crown of industry in Quebec. For any government to loose it would mean loss of confidence of the people.

Your bias shows through - often. Your article flies off on a tangent and does not prove or disprove my point.

 

[james t kirk]

^^^ If you had a clue of what you're braying on about I might take you seriously, however, you are posting complete nonsense when you state that the PQ and the bomber are in bed together, or ever were.

You don't know what you're talking about, I called you on your ignorance, and rather than just say, "whoops", you dig yourself into a deeper hole.

Do your own Google search for christ's sake.

Try "laurent Beaudoin federalist" to start.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

^^^ If you had a clue of what you're braying on about I might take you seriously, however, you are posting complete nonsense when you state that the PQ and the bomber are in bed together,I never said that or ever were.

You don't know what you're talking about, I called you on your ignorance Please show me., and rather than just say, "whoops", you dig yourself into a deeper hole.

Do your own Google search for christ's sake.

Try "laurent Beaudoin federalist" to start.I never said that he was or was not.

We are going sideways again. Your argument is hollow.

You have the unique ability to disagree with me without disagreeing with me.

............."whoops".

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Cat, but it's throwing good money after bad.

We could use that money for infrastructure. OTOH, maybe it might mean we also get a billion dollars more in Ontario if we cry harder to Justin assuming he gives in to Bombardier/Quebec?

It is the old GM/Chrysler deal. The Gov made the deal expecting to recoup the money one day, just like they expect to get the money back from Bomber.( one day )