Hey brother can you spare a $billion to bailout Bombardier?

[rafterman]

http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/10/30/quebec-to-ask-ottawa-to-match-1b-bombardier-bailout.html

Quebec has just anted up a billion dollars to keep the struggling manufacturer's C- series regional jet development going. Now they're asking for a matching loan(?) from Ottawa. Quebec got a 49.5% interest in the new jet for their contribution if Ottawa wants the same 49.5%, let me see 49.5% x 2 is 99% subtracted from 100% leaves 1% for the company to keep them motivated.

Pouring good money after bad?

 

[GPIDEAL]

Fuck 'em? What do the Feds spend in other provinces? If the Feds can afford to spread the love, then maybe.

 

[james t kirk]

I'm all for helping out Canadian value added manufacturers and high tech companies. The Americans and the Germans have made an art of it. There is no future in digging black goo out of the ground and putting it in a pipe.

That said, the loan, or financial assistance or whatever it is needs to have strings attached.

The first and foremost is the end of the dual class share structure that gives the Beaudoin family complete control over bbd.

No?

Then no money.

 

[GPIDEAL]

I'm all for helping out Canadian value added manufacturers and high tech companies. The Americans and the Germans have made an art of it. There is no future in digging black goo out of the ground and putting it in a pipe.

That said, the loan, or financial assistance or whatever it is needs to have strings attached.

The first and foremost is the end of the dual class share structure that gives the Beaudoin family complete control over bbd.

No?

Then no money.

I could accept those terms. WTF? A billion dollars is a lot of taxpayer money.

 

[onthebottom]

Looks like a shit sandwich http://www.thestar.com/business/201...ograms-quebec-is-investing-1b-in-cseries.html

Quebec gets half the company for $1b while the shareholders write down $3.2b in unrecoverable costs....

 

[nottyboi]

How much did they give to GM and lend to Chrysler. And those are not even Canadian companies. BBD is the ONLY Canadian industrial company of global importance. That is a fact.

 

[onthebottom]

How much did they give to GM and lend to Chrysler. And those are not even Canadian companies. BBD is the ONLY Canadian industrial company of global importance. That is a fact.

And they lost $5b last quarter.... Damning statement on Canada really....

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Pouring good money after bad? :co...ompanies send overseas.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[james t kirk]

And they lost $5b last quarter.... Damning statement on Canada really....

Uh huh

Strip Boeing and Lockheed Martin et al of the trillions the US government has poured into their military RnD divisions and watch what happens.

 

[onthebottom]

Uh huh

Strip Boeing and Lockheed Martin et al of the trillions the US government has poured into their military RnD divisions and watch what happens.

Boeing has a fairly successful commercial airline division, what bombardier is attempting is to enter the 737 market... Not exactly cutting edge. What I though was damning was the comment "only Canadian Industrial company of global importance" the fact that there is only one, and it lost $5b in the last quarter.

 

[james t kirk]

Boeing has a fairly successful commercial airline division, what bombardier is attempting is to enter the 737 market... Not exactly cutting edge. What I though was damning was the comment "only Canadian Industrial company of global importance" the fact that there is only one, and it lost $5b in the last quarter.

True (the bit about the only Canadian industrial company of global importance).

There used to be more (Nortel and Blackberry come to mind) as well as Alcan, Inco, Stelco, Dofasco.

This is why I say it is important for the government to help BBD be successful, but only after they get rid of that idiotic dual class share.

As far as Boeing is concerned, Airbus has been bitching forever that Boeing uses its military wing RnD in its commercial wing (and it's probably true.) But so what as far as I'm concerned.

As to losing 5b last quarter, you know as well as I do that companies give themselves an enema of all the bad bad debt that they have been carrying over the years when times are bad because that's the time to do it. Plus, who knows what the truth is. When it comes to accountants being truthful, well, you know the old joke.....ask an accountant "what's 2 + 2?" and a good accountant will always answer, "whatever you want it to be"

The problem is, a billion dollars isn't enough. It will disappear into the ether in about a week. BBD is going to need billions. Plural.

 

[onthebottom]

True (the bit about the only Canadian industrial company of global importance).

There used to be more (Nortel and Blackberry come to mind) as well as Alcan, Inco, Stelco, Dofasco.

This is why I say it is important for the government to help BBD be successful, but only after they get rid of that idiotic dual class share.

As far as Boeing is concerned, Airbus has been bitching forever that Boeing uses its military wing RnD in its commercial wing (and it's probably true.) But so what as far as I'm concerned.

As to losing 5b last quarter, you know as well as I do that companies give themselves an enema of all the bad bad debt that they have been carrying over the years when times are bad because that's the time to do it. Plus, who knows what the truth is. When it comes to accountants being truthful, well, you know the old joke.....ask an accountant "what's 2 + 2?" and a good accountant will always answer, "whatever you want it to be"

The problem is, a billion dollars isn't enough. It will disappear into the ether in about a week. BBD is going to need billions. Plural.

How can you be a serious G7 country with only one industrial company - that's crazy. I think Canada has been lulled into a false sense of prosperity by its commodity, housing and banking industries, all three will be hit hard in the near future IMHO.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

This is why I say it is important for the government to help BBD be successful, but only after they get rid of that idiotic dual class share.

When the PQ was in power, they would back Bombardier down to the last gasp and then attempt CPR on the dead body. Bombardier is the epitome of Quebec industry. The Liberal government in power is no less committed to the Bomber, but the times where Bomber can go to the Quebec government and say " Bombardiers says, gimme money " is over. The get out of trouble free card is a lot less powerful now especially in times of austerity.

As far as the dual class shares at Bombardier, I doubt it will happen soon, but never say never. Personally, the Bomber is not a company that I would expect to make money on when it has to go hat in hand to the Prov/Fed governments all the time.

 

[nottyboi]

And they lost $5b last quarter.... Damning statement on Canada really....

It was all a non-cash write off. If you understood corporate finance, it would make sense to you.

 

[GPIDEAL]

How can you be a serious G7 country with only one industrial company - that's crazy. I think Canada has been lulled into a false sense of prosperity by its commodity, housing and banking industries, all three will be hit hard in the near future IMHO.

I hope you're wrong but that may be the truth.

 

[nottyboi]

Boeing has a fairly successful commercial airline division, what bombardier is attempting is to enter the 737 market... Not exactly cutting edge. What I though was damning was the comment "only Canadian Industrial company of global importance" the fact that there is only one, and it lost $5b in the last quarter.

Do some googling under Boeing and program accounting, then get back to us.

 

[GPIDEAL]

It was all a non-cash write off. If you understood corporate finance, it would make sense to you.

A "write-off" means a dead asset with no hope for recovery or payback. It's a real loss that's finally being recognized on paper.

 

[nottyboi]

True (the bit about the only Canadian industrial company of global importance).

There used to be more (Nortel and Blackberry come to mind) as well as Alcan, Inco, Stelco, Dofasco.

This is why I say it is important for the government to help BBD be successful, but only after they get rid of that idiotic dual class share.

As far as Boeing is concerned, Airbus has been bitching forever that Boeing uses its military wing RnD in its commercial wing (and it's probably true.) But so what as far as I'm concerned.

As to losing 5b last quarter, you know as well as I do that companies give themselves an enema of all the bad bad debt that they have been carrying over the years when times are bad because that's the time to do it. Plus, who knows what the truth is. When it comes to accountants being truthful, well, you know the old joke.....ask an accountant "what's 2 + 2?" and a good accountant will always answer, "whatever you want it to be"

The problem is, a billion dollars isn't enough. It will disappear into the ether in about a week. BBD is going to need billions. Plural.

I don't agree, they need about 2B tops. The loan by the Quebec govt was more to instill customer confidence in BBDs solidity then to actually finance them. They do have enough liquidity to complete the Cseries without the govt. BUT with all the negative press they needed the Quebec govt to declare to the world that BBD is too big to fail and WILL NOT BE ALLOWED to fail. That is the kind or confidence you need to sell airliners. Nothing less will suffice.

 

[onthebottom]

It was all a non-cash write off. If you understood corporate finance, it would make sense to you.

I do understand corporate finance, they booked $3.2b in R&D against a commercial aircraft development program that they need to write off as a loss (they booked it as an asset). Which is why they are hat-in-hand to the taxpayer looking for funds to finish the program and why they gave Quebec 50% of the program for $1b (which roughly translates to a market value of $2b AFTER the $3.2b write off)

 

[GPIDEAL]

It is a drop in the bucket if the Bomber goes down the toilet. Tax revenues, spin off and trickle down spending will have a profound effect on the economy. There is also the economic benefit derived from international sales that offset the spending Canadian companies send overseas.

Cat, but it's throwing good money after bad.

We could use that money for infrastructure. OTOH, maybe it might mean we also get a billion dollars more in Ontario if we cry harder to Justin assuming he gives in to Bombardier/Quebec?