Blue Jays: 2015 edition

[toronto life]

It's the pitcher of record at the time the winning team went ahead to stay who is credited with the win. Unless it's a starter. The starter has to go at least 5 innings to get credited with a win.

No, it's not. It just can't be anyone who was pitching BEFORE they took the lead. If the starter doesn't go 5+ IP (with his team retaining the lead), it is awarded to the pitcher judged the most effective and who is in the game after the point at which the winning team takes the lead for good. See 10.17.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

 

[shack]

No, it's not. It just can't be anyone who was pitching BEFORE they took the lead. If the starter doesn't go 5+ IP (with his team retaining the lead), it is awarded to the pitcher judged the most effective and who is in the game after the point at which the winning team takes the lead for good. See 10.17.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp

oagre had the rule correct. You are pointing out a unique situation in which the starter gets knocked out early, and that team makes a comeback to win.

But even in that situation, if the trailing team comes back to tie going into the 9th, and then win in the 9th, whoever pitched the last out of the 8th gets the win regardless of who was most effective. And this fits oagre's definition.

 

[toronto life]

No. The Win does not always go to the pitcher in the game when the winning team takes the lead for good. This kind of thing does not always happen in the 9th. The rule is clearly laid out in the lnk provided. The statement "It's the pitcher of record at the time the winning team went ahead to stay who is credited with the win. Unless it's a starter." is incorrect.

It's not "unique". Starters often leave early. Example: Both starters are out. Reliever for home team pitches 0.1 inning to end top 4. Home team takes the lead in bottom 4, then switches to another reliever for an inning or more. Rules dictate that 0.1 IP reliever should NOT get the win, and it will go to the most effective reliever after that.

 

[shack]

It's not "unique".

It is exactly the unique situation I described. A pitcher leaves early losing and his team comes from behind. That is the only time, which means unique, the "deemed most effective" is used.

 

[toronto life]

Nope. If his team has the lead when the SP leaves, it also applies. Also, if the relief pitcher is broadly ineffective when he comes in while his team takes the lead. My original point stands. The sentence in question was incorrect.
Also, you keep using that word "unique". I do not think it means what you think it means. (There are two exceptions, which makes it demonstrably NOT unique.)

 

[shack]

(There are two exceptions,)

I can live with that.

I think your 2nd exception is much rarer than the 1st.

 

[Insidious Von]

Which I think would be the point of them talking about it. To make fun of Toronto, make it sound like a minor league city.

New Yorkers are much more savvy about Toronto than what Steven A Smith and his ilk would have you believe. That's why they make fun of our city, just like they do with Boston and Philadelphia. And lets not forget that TD did buy a stake in Morgan Stanley to keep them from going the way of Merrill Lynch. MS made out like thieves during the transfer of ownership from The Teachers to Rogers/Bell.

Smith says the Jays do not impress him, he's kept silent the last few days.

 

[AK-47]

Smith says the Jays do not impress him, he's kept silent the last few days

I suspect he might be silent a few more days

 

[mandrill]

No. The Win does not always go to the pitcher in the game when the winning team takes the lead for good. This kind of thing does not always happen in the 9th. The rule is clearly laid out in the lnk provided. The statement "It's the pitcher of record at the time the winning team went ahead to stay who is credited with the win. Unless it's a starter." is incorrect.

It's not "unique". Starters often leave early. Example: Both starters are out. Reliever for home team pitches 0.1 inning to end top 4. Home team takes the lead in bottom 4, then switches to another reliever for an inning or more. Rules dictate that 0.1 IP reliever should NOT get the win, and it will go to the most effective reliever after that.

Whatever the Rule actually says, I have been reading box scores for 20+ years and conventionally the W always goes to the pitcher of Record at the time the winning team went ahead to stay, with the exception of a starter who pitches less than 5 innings.

Otherwise, you get into a very subjective assessment of who was "most effective" of 3 or 4 relievers who each pitched a couple of outs and allowed no runs. I mean, how do you assess "effectiveness" there?!

 

[toronto life]

Over my forty years of reading box scores, I've seen more than a few where the exceptions have been applied. And plenty of what the official scorer does is subjective - error vs. hit, passed ball vs. wild pitch, etc.
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1987/B04180PIT1987.htm
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2010/B09050BAL2010.htm
two I quickly found

 

[mandrill]

LAA loses to O's. We now have the 1st WC position by .5 games.

We have the 4th best record in the AL suddenly. Only 1 game behind the Astros for 3rd best and of course, 2.5 behind the Yanks for 2nd best. The only record which appears out of reach is KC's and that's irrelevant to us anyway.

O's are 2.5 behind us. They are 5.0 behind the Yanks.

 

[Insidious Von]

At this point all doubts about Gibby abilities to manage should be erased. He got Girardi to play his hand in game one and his ejection in game two was purely tactical. We got another infielder in Cliff Pennington, a vast improvement over Kawasaki.

Now that he's given the Yankees a strozzo (choke out) can we start calling David Price, Dr. Phibes. That's what he was to the pinstripers - abominable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiTJU_AX-Ig

 

[SkyRider]

Not only are the Yanks an elite team, but the Jays not have to battle bias/blind umpires too?

Yes. Notice how only Jays get tossed from games and suspended. It would be naive to think that the umps (and the Commissioner) are not biased.

 

[AK-47]

If we can sweep today it will send a serious message to the rest of the baseball world

 

[Nad Smith]

Marc 0 today. The players on this team are managing and coaching themselves. The talent and dedication are shining through. But this does not make Gibbons a good manager or Walker a good pitching coach. It looked kind of odd yesterday when Walker went out to the mound in the seventh. Even Walker knew there was nothing he could say to help DAVID PRICE.

As for Gibbons being ejected in the third inning....that was dumb. Managers bark at umpires from the bench all the time..no need to get thrown out by his slow waddle onto the field. Now De Marlo Hale is handcuffed from saying anything lest he get tossed.

The young players are properly looking to the veterans as their mentors. Guarantee that every young pitcher respects mark Buerhle a lot more than Pete Walker.

This is a great team now....as good as any I have seen. I could probably manage them and not screw it up. Of course, I would bat Revere first and Tulo fifth. Smoak can contribute from sixth.

The umpire conspiracy? thinking about that one. I am concerned but not convinced...lets see how it goes for a few more games.

 

[Nad Smith]

True or False...a pitcher once got credit for a win without throwing a pitch? If so, how could it happen?

 

[gcostanza]

Yes. Notice how only Jays get tossed from games and suspended. It would be naive to think that the umps (and the Commissioner) are not biased.

Bullshit.

24 players have been suspended by MLB in 2015, any guesses on the number of Toronto Blue Jays?




One.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/fines-suspensions/

 

[AK-47]

True or False...a pitcher once got credit for a win without throwing a pitch? If so, how could it happen?

He entered the game with a lead and got ejected before he could throw his first pitch??

 

[gcostanza]

True or False...a pitcher once got credit for a win without throwing a pitch? If so, how could it happen?

I think that could be True.

Pitcher enters game with his team behind/tied.
Picks runner off base before throwing a pitch for final out of inning.
His team bats, takes lead, does not relinquish lead.
Either game is over, or pitcher is replaced for next inning.

 

[Perry Mason]

True or False...a pitcher once got credit for a win without throwing a pitch? If so, how could it happen?

Google is your friend!

"Call Rockies left-hander Alan Embree the winning picker.

"Embree entered Tuesday night's game against the Nationals with two out in the eighth, Austin Kearns the runner on first and the score tied at 4. Seconds later, the reliever was applying a tag to Kearns to end an odd rundown, which started with his pickoff throw.

"The Rockies scored in the bottom of the eighth and won, 5-4, which made Embree the first Major Leaguer in six years -- and the second one in at least 23 years -- to earn a win without throwing a pitch.

Embree, 39, is sixth among active pitchers in appearances and second among left-handers. He is 30th on the all-time list. Yet, when his teammates placed the baseball in a sandwich bag for safe keeping, he could truly say it commemorated a unique experience.

"It was a fun play for me, because I'd never seen it," Embree said.

"Embree joins Jays pitcher B.J. Ryan, who beat the Tigers without throwing a pitch on May 1, 2003, as the only players to accomplish the feat since STATS Inc. began tracking pitches in 1986. As of Tuesday night, no one had dug up an instance in the game's long history in which a pitcher didn't throw a pitch, was credited with a putout and earned a win.

AND...

"Baltimore at Detroit, first game of a double-header.

"In the bottom of the 7th with Detroit leading 2-1, BJ Ryan was brought in to relieve Pat Hentgen with two out and Omar Infante at first.

"Ryan attempted a pick-off throw before throwing a pitch to the batter. Infante took off to second base and was tagged out attempting to steal (1-3-6)

"Baltimore scored three runs in the top of the 8th, making Ryan the pitcher of record for the O's.

"Buddy Groom replaced Ryan to start the bottom of the 8th.

"The O's added an insurance run in the 9th to win 5-2.

"Ryan gained the win without having thrown a pitch."

Perry