Who are you go to vote for ??
- Thread starter smilybob1
- Start date
I think many people think they are a single issue party. Plus their leader seems to have foot in mouth disease.
I also used to think they were a single party issue. But they're definitely not. I agree I'm not thrilled with Elizabeth May.. Sometimes I think she puts on a bit of a "show" so she can keep her party in people's minds.. Their platform is one of the most agreeable platforms out there if you ask me.
Well, if you're voting based on the economy, the Conservatives are NOT the party to vote for.
The economy has not done well under the conservatives. Growth was anemic. The conservatives only cared about Western Canada and exploiting natural resources. Now the natural resources bubble has burst and oil is falling like a brick thrown out of an airplane, there isn't much left in Canada. Manufacturing and Research and Development have been allowed to wither and die by the Conservatives and even with the dollar at 10 year lows, it's not picking up because there is nothing left to pick up.
We as a nation are now in another recession (the second one since Harper took over) and the dollar is tanking and unemployment is rising and the budget has been balanced all of twice since Harper has been in power.
So it begs the question, if you're basing your vote on the economy, why would you vote for Harper? He has a terrible track record and has been an unmitigated disaster for Ontario.
Because a national child care program could cost up to 15 billion according to some estimates.
Because the strength of the dollar really has less to do with the strength of Canada's economy and more to do with the strength of the American Economy.
Our manufacturing would have been screwed either way. Do you really think we could have competed with China?
Our largest sector in fact remains not the oil patch but the auto industry. The boom delayed and mitigated what could have been a lot worse for us(like the rest of the world).
The price of doing business in Ontario has far more to do with provincial decisions than federal ones. Especially in energy and it's costs. We are not competitive.
Justin knows shit about how to manage the economy and I don't trust the NDP to do right by it either.
That's why unless either of them come up with something concrete and plausible, they won't get my vote.
That has more to do with structural changes in the global economy & Canadian manufactures not maintaining competitiveness., rather than any government policy
China was going to capture those jobs regardless of who was in Ottawa
Not because of Harpers policies, again global demand has slowed right down
The other two will make an even bigger mess & tax us to the max
The provincial liberals are the root of Ontario's woes
They spend & spend , borrow & tax
You want that on a national scale?
It's not the next step to legalization. It was a huge, huge step backwards. The Supreme Court ruling striking down several provisions of the old law was a step forward (arguable, since it was the stimulus for C-36). The Conservatives had the opportunity to take a step forward, but they chose to be regressive. They've confirmed the worst fears about a "hidden agenda".
The law may be struck down, but how many lives will be ruined in the meantime? The Cons don't have a good record when it comes to creating laws that are constitutionally valid, and that is not to their credit. And if it is struck down, and the Conservatives are in power, who's to say they won't come up with another unconstitutional law?
The fact that we're able to "easily circumvent the new law" (paraphrasing) speaks more to police priorities than legislative intent. If police really wanted to, it'd be really, really easy to start charging people. If police were motivated to act, it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel.
You (meaning the Cons) can't call me a "pervert" and then turn around and ask me to vote for you. Fuck you, that's not going to happen.
Based on this poll, being taken by a bunch of guys who, in a social context, are about as far left leaning as possible, the NDP and Liberals are in trouble against the PM. The split vote gives Steven the win.....and that's in a pool of lefties.
WHODATHUNKIT.... At least up to this point.
WHODATHUNKIT.... At least up to this point.
Based on this poll, being taken by a bunch of guys who, in a social context, are about as far left leaning as possible, the NDP and Liberals are in trouble against the PM. The split vote gives Steven the win.....and that's in a pool of lefties, the majority of which come from the vote rich, left leaning, generally more Lberal Toronto TERB board!
WHODATHUNKIT.... At least up to this point.
WHODATHUNKIT.... At least up to this point.
Can't really vote for my CPC MP-the guy is as dumb as a door nob. The Liberal candidate is even worse and Justin's head is so empty it could be used for a dice cup. Being from Toronto, I could never vote for a party of Rae and Layton and Chow. Greens? Nah, May's a classless psycho. I think I'll waste my vote on some independent individual. I will max out my political contribution, however, with the CPC.
Yeah, yet there are those in Ontario who still love him. Don't know why? I am going to vote for a new Prime minister.
The following response is directed at BUTLER and LaRue. I'm not going to bother to quote you because frankly, you're both just full of shit and kicking around anecdotes and your opinions as if they were facts.
So let's look at statistics and numbers shall we (that demonstrate that Harper is an economic buffoon).
Let's compare Harper to his liberal competition on the economy.
Harper - average GDP growth = 1.6 measly percent on average. That's THE WORST of any Prime Minister in 60 years.
Paul Martin = 2.9 percent (with a balanced budget and paying off debt to boot)
Jean Chretien (who owes it all to Paul Martin doesn't he) = 3.5 percent
Brian Mulroney (king of debt) was 2.3 percent
Lester Pearson and Louis St. Laurent = both at an astounding 5.4 percent
In the last 3 years, we have lagged the USA, Britain, Germany, Australia in terms of economic performance.
Canadian GDP has now contracted in the last 5 months straight (another recession, second on Harper's watch, though you can argue you can't blame him for 2008 and I would agree with you.) We are THE ONLY G7 NATION WHOSE ECONOMY IS CONTRACTING AND IN A RECESSION. THE ONLY ONE. I lay that squarely at the feet of Harper and his idiotic handling of the economy and the country.
Unemployment back up to 6.8 percent and climbing. The worst it's been since Mulroney.
Government Spending under Harper is 13.1 percent of GDP. Since Brian Mulroney, it's been at 12.5 to 13.5 percent. (It was actually least under Chretien.)
Budget Deficits = Stephen Harper has given Canada 7 deficit years IN A ROW. Chretien and Martin not only balanced the budget for 10 years in a row, they paid down the debt.
So where is the economic genius boys?
Harper has put all of his government's energy into building a fucking pipeline that the Americans don't want. He's damaged our relations with the USA and their government. He has allowed manufacturing, engineering, research, development in Ontario and the east to wither and die on the vine. You can argue about China this and enevitable that, but that's horseshit. The Germans are an engineering and manufacturing powerhouse and their labour costs are far more than Canadian and they get 12 weeks vacation per year (by the end of their careers). Canadian productivity is terrible and our innovation is terrible because we do not have a government that fosters that kind of development or encourages education or research or start up companies. All the Harper conservatives have cared about is western resources because it was an easy play. Just dig the shit out of the ground and sell it at whatever the world price is. Duh.
The Harper government are a bunch of catatonic zombies when it comes to new ideas, new thinking and encouraging innovation.
There are guys on here who have mentioned C36 and Butler (in particular) scoffs at that. But I don't. C36 demonstrates what really and truly matters to these western based Reformers. Legislating morality. Not only has there been C36, but now C51 (which I hugely oppose) and there has been social legislation against abortion (albeit a private members bill) and the long gun registry and the gutting of environmental law (to help them dig that black goo out of the ground) You add all this up and it shows that the Harper conservatives are very socially conservative and rather than worry about the economy, they worry about legislating sex.
So to sum it all up, I don't give a shit about what either of you say because you're both wrong (about the economy and Harper) and the proof is in the numbers.
I'm far more worried about the economy should Harper be re-elected as opposed to either Justin or Tom Mulcair. This is based on statistical facts. (And I also oppose any kind of national daycare plan either as I figure that I'm willing to pay for a kid's education, but not for baby sitting services.)
So let's look at statistics and numbers shall we (that demonstrate that Harper is an economic buffoon).
Let's compare Harper to his liberal competition on the economy.
Harper - average GDP growth = 1.6 measly percent on average. That's THE WORST of any Prime Minister in 60 years.
Paul Martin = 2.9 percent (with a balanced budget and paying off debt to boot)
Jean Chretien (who owes it all to Paul Martin doesn't he) = 3.5 percent
Brian Mulroney (king of debt) was 2.3 percent
Lester Pearson and Louis St. Laurent = both at an astounding 5.4 percent
In the last 3 years, we have lagged the USA, Britain, Germany, Australia in terms of economic performance.
Canadian GDP has now contracted in the last 5 months straight (another recession, second on Harper's watch, though you can argue you can't blame him for 2008 and I would agree with you.) We are THE ONLY G7 NATION WHOSE ECONOMY IS CONTRACTING AND IN A RECESSION. THE ONLY ONE. I lay that squarely at the feet of Harper and his idiotic handling of the economy and the country.
Unemployment back up to 6.8 percent and climbing. The worst it's been since Mulroney.
Government Spending under Harper is 13.1 percent of GDP. Since Brian Mulroney, it's been at 12.5 to 13.5 percent. (It was actually least under Chretien.)
Budget Deficits = Stephen Harper has given Canada 7 deficit years IN A ROW. Chretien and Martin not only balanced the budget for 10 years in a row, they paid down the debt.
So where is the economic genius boys?
Harper has put all of his government's energy into building a fucking pipeline that the Americans don't want. He's damaged our relations with the USA and their government. He has allowed manufacturing, engineering, research, development in Ontario and the east to wither and die on the vine. You can argue about China this and enevitable that, but that's horseshit. The Germans are an engineering and manufacturing powerhouse and their labour costs are far more than Canadian and they get 12 weeks vacation per year (by the end of their careers). Canadian productivity is terrible and our innovation is terrible because we do not have a government that fosters that kind of development or encourages education or research or start up companies. All the Harper conservatives have cared about is western resources because it was an easy play. Just dig the shit out of the ground and sell it at whatever the world price is. Duh.
The Harper government are a bunch of catatonic zombies when it comes to new ideas, new thinking and encouraging innovation.
There are guys on here who have mentioned C36 and Butler (in particular) scoffs at that. But I don't. C36 demonstrates what really and truly matters to these western based Reformers. Legislating morality. Not only has there been C36, but now C51 (which I hugely oppose) and there has been social legislation against abortion (albeit a private members bill) and the long gun registry and the gutting of environmental law (to help them dig that black goo out of the ground) You add all this up and it shows that the Harper conservatives are very socially conservative and rather than worry about the economy, they worry about legislating sex.
So to sum it all up, I don't give a shit about what either of you say because you're both wrong (about the economy and Harper) and the proof is in the numbers.
I'm far more worried about the economy should Harper be re-elected as opposed to either Justin or Tom Mulcair. This is based on statistical facts. (And I also oppose any kind of national daycare plan either as I figure that I'm willing to pay for a kid's education, but not for baby sitting services.)
And in return I'll say that you are comparing apples and oranges. Or in this can different eras. Seriously.
The deficits run up were at the demand of the opposition parties in 2 minority gov'ts during a downturn. Either that or we end up with an election cycle again and again until a majority is reached.
Many pundits have expressed the fact both here and in the US that is in fact Obama who has been dismissive of Canada as unimportant. And they would be right.
Comparing us to Germany? With unfettered access to trade within the Euro-zone? They are absolutely damn good at what they do but once again it's apples and oranges. In fact the NDP would stifle and block more trade agreements. Think that will help our manufacturing export base?
The world has changed in the last ten years. Drastically.
I'm not voting for Harper because I like him or all of his choices. I'm voting for him because I believe that Justin will be as incompetent as it gets and Munclair will be too beholden to the base not to spend a hell of a lot more than the Tories.
You don't actually think the NDP will balance the budget, do you?
The deficits run up were at the demand of the opposition parties in 2 minority gov'ts during a downturn. Either that or we end up with an election cycle again and again until a majority is reached.
Many pundits have expressed the fact both here and in the US that is in fact Obama who has been dismissive of Canada as unimportant. And they would be right.
Comparing us to Germany? With unfettered access to trade within the Euro-zone? They are absolutely damn good at what they do but once again it's apples and oranges. In fact the NDP would stifle and block more trade agreements. Think that will help our manufacturing export base?
The world has changed in the last ten years. Drastically.
I'm not voting for Harper because I like him or all of his choices. I'm voting for him because I believe that Justin will be as incompetent as it gets and Munclair will be too beholden to the base not to spend a hell of a lot more than the Tories.
You don't actually think the NDP will balance the budget, do you?
Again, you don't have any statistics to back up your position, just hyperbole and anecdotes.
Germany has access to the Eurozone, true. But Canada has access to the Americas and Asia for that matter and NAFTA. I used Germany as an example because they are a very successful country that has not drank the koolaid when it comes to "you need to be cheapest to succeed". Germany has close to the highest labour costs in the world (maybe THEE highest) and yet they are an economic powerhouse. Canada could learn a lot from them, but it would not be easy. I think we need to look at their education system for example. I'm not an expert, but it is my understanding that their education system is very different. From a very young age, children are groomed via their education towards a career where there are jobs based on their abilities. Education is supposed to be about exactly that, education and learning something useful and working towards a successful career. (Not taking yoga classes in high school for example.)
Explain to me exactly how the world has changed "drastically" in the last 10 years. I don't see it. If anything, (and using an anecdote at that), "things change very slowly", or "nothing ever really changes", or how about, "the more things change, the more they stay the same"
And even if they HAVE changed, we need a dynamic government that changes with it. One that adapts. Not one that's stuck in the past.
Either way you look at it, the Harper luddites LOSE. Either they are too stupid to change with the times, or the world hasn't changed and they are too stupid to capitalize on it. Take your pick.
But the fact remains, statistically, that when it comes to the Canadian economy, they are an unmitigated disaster and ESPECIALLY a disaster for Ontario, Toronto, and Eastern Canada. They have put all of Canada's eggs in one natural resources basket and we are going to pay the price as a nation.
I certainly don't describe to Harper's social conservativism, and he's been a disaster on the economy, and he's the worst for Ontario and the east, so why the fuck would I vote for an idiot like him? Why would anyone in the East?
As far as the American's treatment of Canada, I don't think that it's a case of the Obama Gov't not liking Canadians, or being dismissive of Canada. It's a case of them not liking Harper and his band of Canadian Reform Party Conservatives. I don't think they appreciate the moral right wing lecturing, and they especially don't appreciate 7 years of bullshit over a fucking pipeline that they obviously don't want. (And more and more they neither want nor need Keystone. That's their right and no-one likes to hear that "it's a no-brainer". Canada may be the US's largest trading partner and there is no doubt that they are self absorbed, however, the fact of the matter is that we need them a lot more than they need us. We are something like 12 percent of their international trade and they are 85 percent of ours. Hmmm, let's see who is more important in this relationship.
I don't know if Mulcair can balance the budget. But I know Harper cannot.
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