Bibi Wins, Two State Solution Dies?
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You now admit that my claims and views are the same as the White House's."If the new Israeli government is seen as stepping back from its commitment to a two-state solution..."
If.
Its time for you to apologize for calling me a liar.
“Now our ally in these talks has said that they are no longer committed to that solution."
No, Obama has correctly said that Netanyahu supports a Palestinian state, but with conditions that won't be possible for many years.
The Obama quote is more recent than the one you are using and represents the current and most official summary of the whitehouse view.
Actually, the whitehouse corrected their view after Netanyahu gave his extended speech clarifying his position, which you have seen.
The Obama quote is more recent than the one you are using and represents the current and most official summary of the whitehouse view.
Actually, the whitehouse corrected their view after Netanyahu gave his extended speech clarifying his position, which you have seen.
You are still mischaracterizing Obama's statements.No, Obama has correctly said that Netanyahu supports a Palestinian state, but with conditions that won't be possible for many years.
"Netanyahu, in the election run-up, stated that a Palestinian state would not occur while he was prime minister," Obama said. "And I took him at his word that that's what he meant.
"Afterwards, he (Netanyahu) pointed out that he didn't say 'never,' but that there would be a series of conditions in which a Palestinian state could potentially be created," Obama said. "But, of course, the conditions were such that they would be impossible to meet any time soon."
Obama points out that Netanyahu's conditions confirm Netanyahu's pre-election promise to not allow a Palestinian state to be created while he is PM, confirming to Obama that Netanyahu is not supporting the two state solution by actively stating he will not negotiate to a peaceful solution as long as he is in power.
Which is why the Obama government said on Monday:
“We will be watching very closely to see what happens after a new government is formed on this issue of working toward two states living side by side in peace and security,” Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Wendy Sherman told a gathering of Reform Jewish leaders near Washington, DC on Monday.
“If the new Israeli government is seen as stepping back from its commitment to a two-state solution — something that all of you, and a vast majority of American Jews, support — that makes our jobs in the international arena a lot tougher because our ability to push back on efforts to internationalize… Israeli-Palestinian issues has depended on our insistence that the best course in achieving a two-state solution is through direct negotiations between the parties,” she said.
That is a warning to Netanyahu, not a change of opinion.
You owe me an apology, there is nothing left to your accusation that I lied.
And here is the part that summarizes what Netanyahu had actually said:
"Afterwards, he (Netanyahu) pointed out that he didn't say 'never,' but that there would be a series of conditions in which a Palestinian state could potentially be created," Obama said. "But, of course, the conditions were such that they would be impossible to meet any time soon."
"Afterwards, he (Netanyahu) pointed out that he didn't say 'never,' but that there would be a series of conditions in which a Palestinian state could potentially be created," Obama said. "But, of course, the conditions were such that they would be impossible to meet any time soon."
If you insist on repeating the same false claims in two threads I will provide duplicate answers for you.And here is the part that summarizes what Netanyahu had actually said:
"Afterwards, he (Netanyahu) pointed out that he didn't say 'never,' but that there would be a series of conditions in which a Palestinian state could potentially be created," Obama said. "But, of course, the conditions were such that they would be impossible to meet any time soon."
You are still mischaracterizing Obama's statement.
Obama is clearly saying that 'afterwords' Netanyahu tried to back down from his statement by saying he supported the two state solution, but that backdown statement counted for nothing since he added in conditions that 'would be impossible to meet' as long as Netanyahu is in power.
And I note that you failed to prove that Obama publicly stated his White House Spokesman got his facts wrong, as you claimed.
You are wrong, and if I were as low as you I'd accuse you of lying, but I won't, I'll just say you have been proven wrong again.
Cut the crap, you now know for a fact that Netanyahu supports a two state solution, just with conditions that mean it won't be possible for many years.
Netanyahu was elected on a promise not to establish a Palestinian state while he was in office.
“Now our ally in these talks has said that they are no longer committed to that solution.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/top-us-official-intimates-un-veto-policy-could-change/
Promising to not allow a Palestinian state while in power is promising to not support the two state solution as long as he is in office.
Now that you have confirmed what I've said isn't a lie, that it was the same opinions as the White House its time for you to apologize for calling me a liar.He will not establish a Palestinian state while he is in office.
There is nothing left to your accusation.
Apologize for calling me a liar.
What you said was a lie. You did not say only that he wouldn't establish a Palestinian state in the next few years while he is in office.
You lied and said he opposed one, lied and said he would never allow one, and lied and said he would use his time in office to prevent one ever existing.
Also it is curious that you avoid any discussion of Netanyahu's perfectly reasonable conditions, you probably know he is 100% correct.
You lied and said he opposed one, lied and said he would never allow one, and lied and said he would use his time in office to prevent one ever existing.
Also it is curious that you avoid any discussion of Netanyahu's perfectly reasonable conditions, you probably know he is 100% correct.
You said:What you said was a lie. You did not say only that he wouldn't establish a Palestinian state in the next few years while he is in office.
You lied and said he opposed one, lied and said he would never allow one, and lied and said he would use his time in office to prevent one ever existing.
Also it is curious that you avoid any discussion of Netanyahu's perfectly reasonable conditions, you probably know he is 100% correct.
So now the only difference between my position and yours is that you think that Netanyahu might support the two state solution when he's 95 and way out of office or responsibility.20 or 30 years seems to me like a good estimate for how long it might take
For that you call me a liar?
You are a total idiot.
No, today he has promised to not ever allow a Palestinian state to be created while he is in power, and as you say, likely for the next 20 or 30 years.He supports a Palestinian state today, but his conditions haven't been met, and won't be met during the next few years while he is in office.
That is clearly not supporting the two state solution.
You owe me an apology.
Observing that the Palestinians have made peace impossible doesn't mean he doesn't support it. It is just a reality that no Palestinian state is possible now, a reality that is due to their racist aggression.No, today he has promised to not ever allow a Palestinian state to be created while he is in power, and as you say, likely for the next 20 or 30 years.
That is clearly not supporting the two state solution.
It is like saying you support a five year old going to university, but not today, not until they have finished highschool.
Not today doesn't mean never you moron
This is the type of thing I was talking about when I said you are distorting the context of Netanyahu's remarks.No, today he has promised to not ever allow a Palestinian state to be created while he is in power, and as you say, likely for the next 20 or 30 years.
That is clearly not supporting the two state solution.
What Netanyahu actually said -- and he confirmed this in his post-election remarks -- is that, as prime minister, he won't allow a Palestinian state to be established while Israel is threatened by Islamist extremists such as Hamas.
The roadblock is Jew hatred, not the amount of time that Netanyahu serves as PM.
There likely won't be an agreement any time soon to establish a Palestinian state. But that has nothing to do with Netanyahu. The Palestinians were offered statehood three different times and rejected the offers because they couldn't accept the co-existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
Frankly, I think it's optimistic to think the Jew hatred will disappear in the next 20 to 30 years. I hope I'm wrong.
Observing that the Palestinians have made peace impossible doesn't mean he doesn't support it.
That's a personal verdict, not born out by reality.
Talks were fine for the last twenty years, though they went nowhere, nothing has drastically changed in the situation from before the election to after the election.
Its just a cheap excuse for ending the two state solution, there is no real reason for Netanyahu's claim.
You and Netanyahu both don't support the two state solution.
And you still owe me an apology for calling me a liar.
No, you are distorting his statements.This is the type of thing I was talking about when I said you are distorting the context of Netanyahu's remarks.
What Netanyahu actually said -- and he confirmed this in his post-election remarks -- is that, as prime minister, he won't allow a Palestinian state to be established while Israel is threatened by Islamist extremists such as Hamas.
Netanyahu promised he wouldn't allow a Palestinian state while he is PM in order to get himself elected, then afterwards when the rest of the world reacted added the cop out near impossible conditions that even fuji says won't happen for 20 or 30 years.
Nothing had changed in the situation in Israel to warrant this declaration from before the election.
And if you are going to go all racist and accuse an entire people of 'Jew hatred', you had better be prepared to talk equally about racism on both sides of the equations, and you had better be willing to call out in exactly the same terms any findings that are similar on both sides.
If we were to go down that road, and I really don't want to, the only way you come out not smelling like a racist is by objectively comparing racism on both sides of the issue.
And you aren't prepared to do that, are you?
Answer honestly.
The "near impossible conditions" being the threat of Islamist extremists who want to kill as many Jews as they can.No, you are distorting his statements.
Netanyahu promised he wouldn't allow a Palestinian state while he is PM in order to get himself elected, then afterwards when the rest of the world reacted added the cop out near impossible conditions that even fuji says won't happen for 20 or 30 years.
Netanyahu isn't the only one who thinks the Islamist threat is a problem.
It's pretty funny that you challenge me to "answer honestly" in the same post where you use the intellectually dishonest straw man about "an entire people."And if you are going to go all racist and accuse an entire people of 'Jew hatred', you had better be prepared to talk equally about racism on both sides of the equations, and you had better be willing to call out in exactly the same terms any findings that are similar on both sides.
If we were to go down that road, and I really don't want to, the only way you come out not smelling like a racist is by objectively comparing racism on both sides of the issue.
And you aren't prepared to do that, are you?
Answer honestly.
Do all Palestinians hate Jews? Of course not. But the polling indicates that Hamas -- a terrorist group that is driven by its pathological hatred of Jews -- is more popular than the Palestinian Authority.
Since you have falsely accused me of having gone "all racist," you leave me with no alternative but to provide a link to Groggy's favourite CNN interview. Here's Hamas leader Osama Hamden explaining why Jews love to kill Christians:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/...t-history-of-a-dangerous-myth/comment-page-3/
To "honestly" answer your final point -- yes, there are racists on both sides.
But Israel accepted three negotiated agreements to establish an independent Palestinian state. All three offers were rejected by the Palestinians because they couldn't accept the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
Whatever racism may exist among some Israelis has not been a roadblock to peace.
The Jew-hatred among the Palestinians has been the primary roadblock.
That's the difference.
