c36
- Thread starter sockobuw
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Maybe for government administrative deadlines, but don't know about criminal law.
Read the Technical Paper and the Backgrounder.Fingers and toes crossed.
In some respects, the government is contradicting itself with C36 when you read the discussion on the how the SCC ruled in Bedford.
The theme that I interpreted from reading those papers was that the government has empowered sex workers with immunity and exceptions to permit them to conduct their personal affairs as usual, but with the added weight of the law when it comes to abusive or exploitative johns or pimps.
It seems that the focus or priority might be with cases where sex workers or trafficked women complain, and they encourage that they speak up because the concept of immunity has been legislated.
You should all note that there is really no real answer to what will happen once c36 comes into effect.
What I can tell you from firsthand experience is that if LE has a hardon for you they will come on nocking to get you. Think of LE as an elephant that doesn’t forget and if you have insulted their narcissistic ego they will come looking for you.
If they are wrong they are pretty much immune to any prosecution or lawsuit. That means they have access to the best legal defence teams and it won’t cost them a penny.
On the other hand if you are the one that got arrested good luck to you. Now given the fact that you are enjoying a hobby in an industry without any loyalties no one here is going to come to your rescue and tell in open court what a great guy you are. You are on your own to face ridicule and to pay for a very expensive legal bill. Also your name becomes public the minute you get charged and what you been charged for and that never goes away or gets taken back. Once it has been made public it is yours to have and hold explain for the rest of your life.
Now there is the chance that nothing will happen and you get away with it for years. However, all that has to happen is for you to get arrested once for your life to be completely fucked up.
Everyone here now knows what the law is saying and if you choose to engage in the hobby you are doing at your own risk. If things don’t turn out the way you hoped, the only one you will have to blame will be yourself. Because even if you didn’t participate in any sexual service for money, the way this bill is written even a lap dance is a sexual service for money, so good luck with the judge or jury.
So if you want to keep on falsely reassuring yourself you are asking for a world of trouble. It is best you accept the reality of c36 and realise that things will be different once it becomes law and the choice is totally yours to break the law or obey it.
Good luck to all.
What I can tell you from firsthand experience is that if LE has a hardon for you they will come on nocking to get you. Think of LE as an elephant that doesn’t forget and if you have insulted their narcissistic ego they will come looking for you.
If they are wrong they are pretty much immune to any prosecution or lawsuit. That means they have access to the best legal defence teams and it won’t cost them a penny.
On the other hand if you are the one that got arrested good luck to you. Now given the fact that you are enjoying a hobby in an industry without any loyalties no one here is going to come to your rescue and tell in open court what a great guy you are. You are on your own to face ridicule and to pay for a very expensive legal bill. Also your name becomes public the minute you get charged and what you been charged for and that never goes away or gets taken back. Once it has been made public it is yours to have and hold explain for the rest of your life.
Now there is the chance that nothing will happen and you get away with it for years. However, all that has to happen is for you to get arrested once for your life to be completely fucked up.
Everyone here now knows what the law is saying and if you choose to engage in the hobby you are doing at your own risk. If things don’t turn out the way you hoped, the only one you will have to blame will be yourself. Because even if you didn’t participate in any sexual service for money, the way this bill is written even a lap dance is a sexual service for money, so good luck with the judge or jury.
So if you want to keep on falsely reassuring yourself you are asking for a world of trouble. It is best you accept the reality of c36 and realise that things will be different once it becomes law and the choice is totally yours to break the law or obey it.
Good luck to all.
From the guy that actually may know a thing or two about the law.
It is your choice, to drive drunk, to steal, to sell drugs. You are free to make those choices, but there are consequences. Taking advise from person(s) on a public forum ( you have no clue who or what they are ) is certainly not wise.
The lines between SC, MP and SP have become increasingly blurred, I personally am in favour of some enforcement. For those customers and MPA that want to perform and receive they should work/employ an escort.
EXACTLY!! It has ALWAYS been illegal for a Guy to be " Found in a Bawdy House " ALL who have been to an incall could have been arrested . ... AND WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING??? NOTHING!!
L.E. is NOT INTERESTED in going on a crusade ..... But to focus resources were need be .... to important crimes ..... AND to cases of forced prostitution .... Underage & street pro activity negatively affecting the neighbourhood
Actually in Peel massage parlours are legal!! Which means they have been deemed a fit and legal establishememt to offer whole body massages by the city of Peel. The massage attendants are licensed and they pay for that license. I'm guessing the city of Brampton will no longer be issuing licenses coming this new year then??
By the way, LE isn't going to just rush in a licensed massage parlour and start arresting people, they will have to have an undercover investigation and proof that sexual services were payed for!! And how they plan on doing that if the attendant is immune to all charges and the undercover LE being the paying customer is beyond my realm of knoweledge. They can't just rush into places and randomly arrest people for giving and/ or receiving a massage. Come on guys use your noodles.
By the way, LE isn't going to just rush in a licensed massage parlour and start arresting people, they will have to have an undercover investigation and proof that sexual services were payed for!! And how they plan on doing that if the attendant is immune to all charges and the undercover LE being the paying customer is beyond my realm of knoweledge. They can't just rush into places and randomly arrest people for giving and/ or receiving a massage. Come on guys use your noodles.
This is almost verbatim of what the bureaucrat had reportedly said. Essentially, that LE needed a big stick to go after the pimps and street level stuff. That they have neither the resources nor the inclination to pursue the whole gamut of the new law.....but would act on any complaint based on its merit (Jargon i assume). While I reiterate, this is all hearsay, or that they are deliberately playing their cards close to their chest, I does make overall sense.
On a side note, I was in Dubai recently, and much to my amazement there is a thriving "night life" being enjoyed by the expats and affluent locals. When I quizzed my host about the openness and ease of access, he said the LE pretty much looks away, until someone complains. If it can happen in Emirates, it can certainly happen in TO.
Why, because according to the law massage parlours will be illegal coming Dec, no? Isn't that what the law now states?! I'm curious how the city of peel is going to deal with that. Here's the issue, if it is illegal to operate massage parlours now, will the city of Brampton not renew legal massage parlour licenses coming this new year when they have to renew?! And if they do renew the licenses, how then can it be an Illegal establishment? That's like walking into a bar that has been licensed to serve alcohol and then arresting the patrons for drinking!!
Bro, there is no city of peel. Mississauga and Brampton are in the Region of Peel. That is why it is called Peel Police and not Mississauga or Brampton police.
I don't know if massage parlors are going to become illegal. Sexual activities in said parlors will definitely be illegal.
Okay the City of Brampton, municipality of Peel. Is that better?! And I re-iterate massage parlours in Brampton are LEGAL. They may not be in Toronto but they are in Brampton. So if I'm getting a nice full body massage and junior just happens to erupt is that considered a sexual service. I don't think so.
The new law will apply to the whole country. It wont make a difference which "municipality" a spa is in. I will make a difference as to how individual jurisdictions choose to enforce the law. For instance even currently, York/Vaughan region is overzealous in following the law to the letter. Peel/Toronto, not so much.
Vaughan has to follow the law to the T because almost all the massage parlours were shut down in the early 2000's!! Remember Invisible Touch, Hands from Heaven? They were shut down and moved to Brampton and they have been fine since.
Which brings me back to my original question. Okay so globally all massage parlours are illegal how will the city of Brampton deal with the licensing issues? That's going to be interesting!
Well, no city can "license" anything which is deemed to be illegal. So we are back to the interpretation question. Are massage parlors/body rubs harbingers of paid sexual activities? I don't know, I have never indulged in any sexual activity at ant licensed spa .
.Me either! :wink:I don't know, I have never indulged in any sexual activity at ant licensed spa
For the sake of discussion, SP was and will be an illegal activity. So even if a lap dance or a massage were OK, does it mean that a stripper can whip out a menu or a MPA can whisper in your ear extra $$$ for extra service. This is more what may be enforced. Complaints may have been made in the past or may be made in the future by a competitor, a worker, a neighboring business. No one knows for certain.
If you're a MPA or stripper and you want to offer up your full list of services, do take out, Like the old days. BUT don't call yourself a stripper or MPA.
If you're a MPA or stripper and you want to offer up your full list of services, do take out, Like the old days. BUT don't call yourself a stripper or MPA.
Licensed body rub parlors, whether in the Region of Peel or in the City of Toronto, won't be deemed illegal as of December 6th, 2014. (I think you are confusing holistic spas with licensed body rub joints, if the former permit nude bodyslides, etc.).
Neither will strip joints.
HOWEVER, if the government's technical paper is accurately based on previous court cases, then lap dancing is a sexual service as well as masturbation at a spa. http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/protect/p1.html
The following activities have been found to constitute a sexual service or an act of prostitution, if provided in return for some form of consideration: lap-dancing, which involves sitting in the client’s lap and simulating sexual intercourse;[31] masturbation of a client in the context of a massage parlour, whether or not the client climaxes;[32] and, sado-masochistic activities, provided that the acts can be considered to be sexually stimulating/gratifying.[33] However, jurisprudence is clear that neither acts related to the production of pornography,[34] nor stripping[35] meet the test. In most cases, physical contact, or sexual interaction, between the person providing the service and the person receiving it is required; however, acts for which consideration is provided that take place in a private room in a club and that are sexual in nature, but do not involve physical contact between the “client” and “performer”, such as self-masturbation, have been found to constitute prostitution.[36]
SP was NOT an illegal activity. Not in Canada. Certain activities surrounding prostitution were illegal, but not the act itself.
As for lap dance or HJ, it doesn't matter what the provider calls herself, and neither does it matter if it's incall or outcall. A john will break the law if he obtains a sexual service for consideration or just communicates for the purpose while the SP is immune from selling or performing or communicating (except she can't communicate near children or in public view).
