c36

[SchlongConery]

My $0.02

Within a month of coming into effect, York, Peel and Toronto police forces will begin investigations based on the new law.

They will not sit on their hands. It would not be politically acceptable to not take action.

They will bring charges against customers, MP and Escort Agency owners. Not MPA's.

Then those cases will wind through the court system.

During this time, the oldest profession will adapt to the new laws, as it has always done. A new approach will evolve in this perennial underground cat and mouse game just as it has in the US and other jurisdictions where it is illegal.

Whether anyone takes a break while this shakes out is an individual decision on risk versus reward... and as Dirty Harry asked... "Do ya feel lucky?"

 

[Messiahson]

My $0.02

Within a month of coming into effect, York, Peel and Toronto police forces will begin investigations based on the new law.

They will not sit on their hands. It would not be politically acceptable to not take action.

They will bring charges against customers, MP and Escort Agency owners. Not MPA's.

Then those cases will wind through the court system.

During this time, the oldest profession will adapt to the new laws, as it has always done. A new approach will evolve in this perennial underground cat and mouse game just as it has in the US and other jurisdictions where it is illegal.

Whether anyone takes a break while this shakes out is an individual decision on risk versus reward... and as Dirty Harry asked... "Do ya feel lucky?"

You guys blind....check post #29 You're wrong.

 

[bubble pop]

Actually you are quite wrong on this matter. The Conservatives did not consult any of the municipalities and basically all provincial governments except for Manitoba who supported bill C-36. They mainly consulted police forces who could always use more power and obviously endorsed the legislation. In fact, this new law creates a huge headache for municipal governments (check the CBA submission to the senate). How do the cities control escorts now? Under bill C-36 they can technically run brothels wherever they want. In communities, neighborhoods near schools, apartment buildings, storefronts, etc. Normally, the city would license such activities using zoning restrictions but now doing so is kind of a joke. The city can't license a business which is de facto illegal. So we can only see what would happen once the law passes.

Yeah, the whole "prostitution is actually illegal but prostitutes are also 100% indemnified" thing just blows my mind.

*tinfoil hat* I assume this is just a prelude to full criminalization getting rolled out after the Tories renew their majority in 2015. Maybe even in response to another Charter challenge. "Look, the court is tying our hands! These JUDICIAL ACTIVISTS told us that our law was shitty and that we have to change it! Sorry!"

 

[SchlongConery]

You guys blind....check post #29 You're wrong.

Oh so because you weren't arrested in a licensed MP while the law on Bawdy Houses is of no force or effect, you think that is somehow relevant to police not enforcing a new law once it comes into effect?


You might also want to rethink your logic if you remember that most Chiefs of Police specifically called for the new law to criminalize purchasers of sexual services and strengthen their power to act on the sex industry.

 

[stay]

Yup,sounds like a good idea...I'm up for that! Let's hit these MPs like there is no tomorrow! Been saving up 4 a while for this time, hope the MPAs are ready for us...nice to get back to the good ole wild times

I've got the cash, the time. I really need to video tape the sessions because my memory fails me.

 

[pablice]

I am lucky if I can remember my SOs name in the morning...not the first time I called out the wrong name...

I've got the cash, the time. I really need to video tape the sessions because my memory fails me.

 

[MPAsquared]

Good observations Any. In parts of the city, the number of spas out number coffee shops. Local businesses and residents have, for years complained to local politicians, with no results. With the law now passed, mounting public pressure will compel LE to act. The police hate responding to residential noise complaints during summer weekends when people are having outdoor parties, but that doesn't deter them from responding to the complaints. I am familiar with at least one rabbi who will make it his mission to close the body rub parlours in the Bathurst and Wilson area.

There is a difference between body rub parlors & holistic centers. Complaints about the hundreds of holistics operating as bodyrubs has long been an issue. However, there are only 25 body rub parlors in toronto.

My $0.02

Within a month of coming into effect, York, Peel and Toronto police forces will begin investigations based on the new law.

They will not sit on their hands. It would not be politically acceptable to not take action.

They will bring charges against customers, MP and Escort Agency owners. Not MPA's.

Then those cases will wind through the court system.

During this time, the oldest profession will adapt to the new laws, as it has always done. A new approach will evolve in this perennial underground cat and mouse game just as it has in the US and other jurisdictions where it is illegal.

Whether anyone takes a break while this shakes out is an individual decision on risk versus reward... and as Dirty Harry asked... "Do ya feel lucky?"

On who's authority did you hear this or are you quoting? Because my discussions with LE have been the exact opposite of what you posted.

Oh so because you weren't arrested in a licensed MP while the law on Bawdy Houses is of no force or effect, you think that is somehow relevant to police not enforcing a new law once it comes into effect?


You might also want to rethink your logic if you remember that most Chiefs of Police specifically called for the new law to criminalize purchasers of sexual services and strengthen their power to act on the sex industry.

Not in Ontario. In fact, parts of BC & Quebec have already said they won't be enforcing this on anything more than a complaint basis.

I've got the cash, the time. I really need to video tape the sessions because my memory fails me.

Please don't ever do that.

 

[iamstvs]

C36 and sex clubs.

Since the Supreme Court of Canada ruled on December 21, 2005 that it is legal for consenting adults to join social clubs devoted to sexual activities what effect will C36 have on this situation.

And what is to prevent MP from converting to a sex club?

 

[SchlongConery]

On who's authority did you hear this or are you quoting? Because my discussions with LE have been the exact opposite of what you posted.


.

As I said in my first rwo words...it is my two cents of opinion on the matter so it is on nobody's authourity and i am not quoting anyone.

The local D's aren't going to tell you what any plans are, nor do they even know what will priority edict will come down from the Chief. Less than a week ago, the investigative priorities of the police were changed by Jian Ghomeshie's (sp?) actions five years ago.

Who knows what will happen now that there will be a new Chief...and Sgt Blackrock has been put back deep undercover...

But if it were my business I'd be buying lots of money aside and also investing lots of time with a good criminal lawyer or three brainstorming possible defenses and modifying my way of doing business so as to be a more difficult target.

 

[bubble pop]

As I said in my first rwo words...it is my two cents of opinion on the matter so it is on nobody's authourity and i am not quoting anyone.

The local D's aren't going to tell you what any plans are, nor do they even know what will priority edict will come down from the Chief. Less than a week ago, the investigative priorities of the police were changed by Jian Ghomeshie's (sp?) actions five years ago.

Who knows what will happen now that there will be a new Chief...and Sgt Blackrock has been put back deep undercover...

But if it were my business I'd be buying lots of money aside and also investing lots of time with a good criminal lawyer or three brainstorming possible defenses and modifying my way of doing business so as to be a more difficult target.

If it was my business I would be shitting my pants about civil forfeiture. I would be liquidating and putting everything in my mother's name. And I'd get the fuck out! If your lawyers think they can predict this/are telling you not to worry then they are shitty lawyers, sorry.

 

[magnus666]

Not in Ontario. In fact, parts of BC & Quebec have already said they won't be enforcing this on anything more than a complaint basis.

What happens when the MOJ or the Attorney General calls the local constabulary to complain that the law isn't being applied hmmm...? This whole issue was not very high up in the public eye before C36 was drafted, and is messy piece of crap to boot. This smells so much like a personal pet project of Peter MacKay, and once it gets done I doubt he will sit back until he sees some results.

 

[stay]

Please don't ever do that.

Tried the etching in stone thing, doesn't work. The only thing I can remember is when a certain MPA chuckled as I deflated. Months later she was telling me about her bf who was quicker than instant porridge.

 

[stay]

People have POV from both sides but to think that it will be the same, to me is crazy. A MP owner may find themselves facing stiff penalties. Also, even with some challenge, there is no constitional right to purchase sex, so the Johns have no standing.

 

[frankcastle]

Is the only change for johns that we can now be charged criminally?

I have never been clear beforr or now.

Has there been a change in funding for police? How does a police chief justify increasing manpower for this law where le taking away from elsewhere in the police department.

There is a vice squad and will continue with o be one. I would assume they would be focusing on trafficking, under age girls and pimps. That stuff is what people want to see. The police know how to play pr just as well as anyone else.

I am taking a break but that is for personal reasons. ....... want to save money and just losing that thrill...... a break should bring that back.

Someone in another thread mentioned avoiding back page.... how is both more vulnerable with the new laws?

 

[stay]

As I said in my first rwo words...it is my two cents of opinion on the matter so it is on nobody's authourity and i am not quoting anyone.

The local D's aren't going to tell you what any plans are, nor do they even know what will priority edict will come down from the Chief. Less than a week ago, the investigative priorities of the police were changed by Jian Ghomeshie's (sp?) actions five years ago.

Who knows what will happen now that there will be a new Chief...and Sgt Blackrock has been put back deep undercover...

But if it were my business I'd be buying lots of money aside and also investing lots of time with a good criminal lawyer or three brainstorming possible defenses and modifying my way of doing business so as to be a more difficult target.

Agree, no one really knows what THE PLANS are, some people suggest that the government brought in a bill without thinking about it and the police will not be enforcing it. Others think the police are dressed ready to pounce.

Firstly, as a RCMP officer you are obligated to arrest ANY person who is committing a criminal act.
Secondly, it is a new law that may face constitutional challenge, although don't count on the right to pay for sex as being one of them, plus the outcome of said challenge may be worse.
Since a bodyrub is legal, would tipping over and above the rate and receiving over and above service be construed as a criminal act and would both patron and business owner potentially be acting contrary to the law. In other words, if you paid extra and got a hum-zinger, do you need to worry.

NOBODY BUT THE POWERS THAT BE KNOW FOR SURE.

 

[oldjones]

So does this mean the law has passed? Can LE start charging people if I went to an mp today? A little confused on this whole The whole royal assent thingy......does it have to pass the 30 days or does the law come into affect immediately?

The USA version of Royal assent is called Presidential signing. Nothing is a law without that signature, nor can it be enforced until signed. Once the ink's on the page, then the law starts to operate—like folks actually get arrested, police forces ask for bigger budgets, taxes go up etc.—when the words in the law itself says that it starts. Or in the usual administrative time-frame if there are no such words. But once the Big Guy signs it, that is the law, even if it gives us all 30 days before it takes effect, and might affect you personally.

As for LE charging you for going to an MP: The law does not have anything to do with visiting massage parlours, or getting body-rubs, but it will now be a criminal offence to offer to buy sexual services, there or anywhere. So make sure your MPA isn't a cop before you say anything too risqué in that private room.
----------
PS: In Canada entrapment issues aren't as restrictive as in the US, a cop can lie about being one, and even participate in certain crimes to maintain an undercover identity.

 

[lomotil]

You guys blind....check post #29 You're wrong.

Actually, you are incorrect, from the time the old law was struck down, until present the crown in all provinces didn't lay any charges with respect to the old laws unless drugs, prostitution or human trafficking was involved. That will change any day now.

 

[SchlongConery]

If it was my business I would be shitting my pants about civil forfeiture. I would be liquidating and putting everything in my mother's name. And I'd get the fuck out! If your lawyers think they can predict this/are telling you not to worry then they are shitty lawyers, sorry.

Why get anyone's mother involved?

I would suggest ensuring that any MP or Agency owner has plenty of cash on hand somewhere to pay lawyers and live on in case of being charged. (cash that is clean and taxes paid on, just not in a bank account subject to seizure)

No one knows how this will play out.

The best that any lawyer can do is advise a client of any defense they may have available. It is a fine line definition... a lawyer cannot counsel anyone as to techniques as to how to break the law.

 

[bobcat40]

If it was my business I would be shitting my pants about civil forfeiture. I would be liquidating and putting everything in my mother's name. And I'd get the fuck out! If your lawyers think they can predict this/are telling you not to worry then they are shitty lawyers, sorry.

Why stop there? They should relocate to China and wear a tinfoil hat. Good lawyers tell you the most probably outcome and what you should do to prepare for it. It would be stupid to tell you to prepare for the absolute worst case scenario by telling you to sell everything and flee cause the cops are gonna hunt you down.

Owners of escort agencies and massage parlours actually do have a reasonable defense against C-36. The commercial enterprise aspect is actually quite vulnerable to be challenged as it doesn't properly define an area which absolves you from legal risk. A owner of an escort agency could be a "manager" or a "receptionist". At what point would you define something to be a commercial enterprise??

So truthfully, any decent lawyer would actually tell you that there is obviously risk associated with operating a commercial enterprise but they have a solid chance of defending it in court. The decision to continue is up to the client to weigh the cost vs. benefit.

 

[SchlongConery]

Sure, they have a reasonable defense. Even without one, many charges are withdrawn or the charges defended succesfully on many other grounds.

But.. the COST to defend these kind of charges can be very high and are penalty enough.