Most recent articles on prostitution related laws, opinions, comments

[GPIDEAL]

Purchasing sexual services is illegal under c36, visiting a bodyrub is not illegal.



Thank you! She read it when I sent it to her in Sept. We've been in contact ever since. I'm not sure how the community feels.

I will agree with your rhetorical reply for now.

However, if the government relies on the court's definition of sexual services and aligns enforcement with their backgrounder paper, which includes BR and Strip joints, then provided they have proof that I got a HJ or was sexually-aroused, or had a lap dance, then I can be arrested.

I will quote an applicable section of the technical paper:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/protect/p1.html

To determine whether a particular act constitutes a “sexual service for consideration” or “prostitution”, the court will consider whether the service is sexual in nature and whether the purpose of providing the service is to sexually gratify the person who receives it. Specifically, a contract or agreement, whether express or implied, for a specific sexual service in return for some form of consideration is required.[25] In particular, the consideration must be contingent on the provision of a particular sexual service and the contract or agreement must be entered into before the sexual service is provided.[26] Sexual activity involving no expectation of getting paid for the services provided does not meet the test.[27] Sexual activity in the context of ongoing relationships also fails to meet the test, unless the evidence shows that the alleged consideration was contingent on the provision of a particular sexual service.[28] In one case, gifts given to the complainant were not viewed as consideration for sexual favours rendered, but rather as gifts given “dans le cadre plus large de la relation affective entre l’accusé et le plaignant”.[29] Another case held that the phrase “sexual services for consideration” is not intended to apply to consensual actions between those having an affinity towards one another.[30]

The following activities have been found to constitute a sexual service or an act of prostitution, if provided in return for some form of consideration: lap-dancing, which involves sitting in the client’s lap and simulating sexual intercourse;[31] masturbation of a client in the context of a massage parlour, whether or not the client climaxes;[32] and, sado-masochistic activities, provided that the acts can be considered to be sexually stimulating/gratifying.[33] However, jurisprudence is clear that neither acts related to the production of pornography,[34] nor stripping[35] meet the test. In most cases, physical contact, or sexual interaction, between the person providing the service and the person receiving it is required; however, acts for which consideration is provided that take place in a private room in a club and that are sexual in nature, but do not involve physical contact between the “client” and “performer”, such as self-masturbation, have been found to constitute prostitution.[36]


Addendum: I will quote the late Jack Layton in my defense. "I only went for a back massage".

 

[GPIDEAL]

Yes, excellent letter. Of course it had no effect on this gov't but it might down the road. You have to keep in mind that for most of these Cons they would be very uncomfortable with you success story. They would rather you were a drugged out addict looking for your latest trick to supply your drug habit. It fits in with their scenario that only bad girls and "fallen women" on the margins of society take part in the sex trade, and that you should be punished for what you are doing. Of course they are wrong, and you've shown them up for that. Hypocrites!
Liars!!

Conservative MP Stella Ambler chastised such a success story as someone describing a sitcom.

How arrogant and judgmental!

 

[GPIDEAL]

Bylaw might see things differently, but what's the difference as it relates to the new federal laws?

That's the $64,000 question.

TP said the City can't license an illegal activity IF C-36 interprets licensed BR parlors as illegal, however, the City never licensed these establishments as providers of a sexual service, so I can't see LE automatically shutting these down, unless they have conducted undercover investigations without crossing the line, which is tricky in the 1st place.

 

[canada-man]

there is talk on twitter under the #c-36 hashtag saying the bill will recieve royal accent tommorow


naomi retweeted
Chanelle ‏@femmeifest 7h7 hours ago
Heartbreaking week. Dangerous, misguided bill #c36 to become law thursday. Stay safe #sexworkers. This isnt over by a long shot #cdnpoli
0 replies 28 retweets 4 favorites
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[MPAsquared]

Bylaw might see things differently, but what's the difference as it relates to the new federal laws?

We are a bodyrub parlor. We sell bodyrubs.

On behalf of community members - I want you to know we are PROUD of you and extremely grateful for your hard work and commitment.

Our industry needs heroes, and role models to break the old stereotypes and create a new image that reflects reality.

Thank you! :clap2:

Thank you Sarah!!

Bodyrubs are specifically prohibited in Barrie by the city's zoning bylaws both in retail locations and as a home based business.

Yes, I have read the Barrie bylaws, their zoning is weird. In toronto, our zoning is more strict than c36!

Have any amendments been made to the bill or is it going through as it was originally proposed?

Amendments were rejected. It stays as-is.

Yes, excellent letter. Of course it had no effect on this gov't but it might down the road. You have to keep in mind that for most of these Cons they would be very uncomfortable with you success story. They would rather you were a drugged out addict looking for your latest trick to supply your drug habit. It fits in with their scenario that only bad girls and "fallen women" on the margins of society take part in the sex trade, and that you should be punished for what you are doing. Of course they are wrong, and you've shown them up for that. Hypocrites!
Liars!!

Thanks!! I agree!

I will agree with your rhetorical reply for now.

However, if the government relies on the court's definition of sexual services and aligns enforcement with their backgrounder paper, which includes BR and Strip joints, then provided they have proof that I got a HJ or was sexually-aroused, or had a lap dance, then I can be arrested.

I will quote an applicable section of the technical paper:

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/protect/p1.html

To determine whether a particular act constitutes a “sexual service for consideration” or “prostitution”, the court will consider whether the service is sexual in nature and whether the purpose of providing the service is to sexually gratify the person who receives it. Specifically, a contract or agreement, whether express or implied, for a specific sexual service in return for some form of consideration is required.[25] In particular, the consideration must be contingent on the provision of a particular sexual service and the contract or agreement must be entered into before the sexual service is provided.[26] Sexual activity involving no expectation of getting paid for the services provided does not meet the test.[27] Sexual activity in the context of ongoing relationships also fails to meet the test, unless the evidence shows that the alleged consideration was contingent on the provision of a particular sexual service.[28] In one case, gifts given to the complainant were not viewed as consideration for sexual favours rendered, but rather as gifts given “dans le cadre plus large de la relation affective entre l’accusé et le plaignant”.[29] Another case held that the phrase “sexual services for consideration” is not intended to apply to consensual actions between those having an affinity towards one another.[30]

The following activities have been found to constitute a sexual service or an act of prostitution, if provided in return for some form of consideration: lap-dancing, which involves sitting in the client’s lap and simulating sexual intercourse;[31] masturbation of a client in the context of a massage parlour, whether or not the client climaxes;[32] and, sado-masochistic activities, provided that the acts can be considered to be sexually stimulating/gratifying.[33] However, jurisprudence is clear that neither acts related to the production of pornography,[34] nor stripping[35] meet the test. In most cases, physical contact, or sexual interaction, between the person providing the service and the person receiving it is required; however, acts for which consideration is provided that take place in a private room in a club and that are sexual in nature, but do not involve physical contact between the “client” and “performer”, such as self-masturbation, have been found to constitute prostitution.[36]


Addendum: I will quote the late Jack Layton in my defense. "I only went for a back massage".

Yes I know massage parlors are mentioned in the backgrounder. However, after speaking with LE, there is a big difference between a "massage parlor" and a licensed bodyrub parlor. I can only disclose so much.

Conservative MP Stella Ambler chastised such a success story as someone describing a sitcom.

How arrogant and judgmental!

That & Ms Frum's statement about not hearing any "uplifting" sex work stories caused me to jump into action! I sent them over 100 "uplifting" stories from sex workers and clients! I'm sure she barfed when she read them.

That's the $64,000 question.

TP said the City can't license an illegal activity IF C-36 interprets licensed BR parlors as illegal, however, the City never licensed these establishments as providers of a sexual service, so I can't see LE automatically shutting these down, unless they have conducted undercover investigations without crossing the line, which is tricky in the 1st place.

Which would apply if toronto had brothel licenses. Our licenses are not going away.

You guys are forgetting the process of the law. Investigation must occur. Proof must occur. Inside a treatment room is no different than a hotel room. No one can arrest u for just being there. Or being nekkid. We aren't licensed brothels. We sell bodyrubs.

 

[GPIDEAL]

We are a bodyrub parlor. We sell bodyrubs.



Thank you Sarah!!



Yes, I have read the Barrie bylaws, their zoning is weird. In toronto, our zoning is more strict than c36!



Amendments were rejected. It stays as-is.




Thanks!! I agree!




Yes I know massage parlors are mentioned in the backgrounder. However, after speaking with LE, there is a big difference between a "massage parlor" and a licensed bodyrub parlor. I can only disclose so much.



That & Ms Frum's statement about not hearing any "uplifting" sex work stories caused me to jump into action! I sent them over 100 "uplifting" stories from sex workers and clients! I'm sure she barfed when she read them.



Which would apply if toronto had brothel licenses. Our licenses are not going away.

You guys are forgetting the process of the law. Investigation must occur. Proof must occur. Inside a treatment room is no different than a hotel room. No one can arrest u for just being there. Or being nekkid. We aren't licensed brothels. We sell bodyrubs.

I agree with everything you've said, and I'm not surprised that your license terms are stricter than C-36.

If that's the case, then there's no reason to deem a BR spa as an illegal establishment.

Nobody should say they have cummed or were aroused if talking to LE or by-law (as is the case now). I think reviews need to be more discreet.

 

[DigitallyYours]

Regarding that government backgrounder, yes it says that strip clubs and massage parlors aren't exempt.

Try this exercise. Go to wikipedia. Look up massage parlour. Here's what is says "A massage parlor (American English) or massage parlour (British English) is the term commonly used as a euphemism for a brothel, an establishment that is actually a front for prostitution."

This is the public perception we're dealing with. And yes, there's a huge difference between a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution and one that isn't.

 

[canada-man]

https://www.facebook.com/maggies.to/posts/597110867082961

Canada Weeps - Mourning the ascension of Bill C36
Thursday, November 6 at 7:00pm in EST
Queens Park in Toronto, Ontario
11 people are going

 

[GPIDEAL]

Regarding that government backgrounder, yes it says that strip clubs and massage parlors aren't exempt.

Try this exercise. Go to wikipedia. Look up massage parlour. Here's what is says "A massage parlor (American English) or massage parlour (British English) is the term commonly used as a euphemism for a brothel, an establishment that is actually a front for prostitution."

This is the public perception we're dealing with. And yes, there's a huge difference between a massage parlor that is a front for prostitution and one that isn't.

'Body-rub' parlor or joint doesn't sound any better, however, they are licensed and regulated, so that makes a difference.

 

[MPAsquared]

https://www.facebook.com/maggies.to/posts/597110867082961

Canada Weeps - Mourning the ascension of Bill C36
Thursday, November 6 at 7:00pm in EST
Queens Park in Toronto, Ontario
11 people are going

Plenty more are going. Its all over twitter. Most pple wouldn't post on fb that they r going. Wear a mask if u want, just get out to this event!

 

[Siocnarf]

Why did he resign?

Five ministers resigned at the same time, because they didn't get along with the Manitoba Premier. I don't really know more details because I don't care that much about Manitoba politics.

The most difficult challenge will be the aspect where it makes it illegal to purchase sex.

And it is also the most important. It doesn't help if all the rest get thrown out; so long as clients are afraid to buy openly it will be dangerous for the workers.

There is plenty of evidence worldwide that any form of criminalization increases danger for workers (including a recent research in Vancouver.) That is why the UN and World Health Org. advocate decriminalization. That is why the French Senate rejected that kind of law. But of course, no actual data yet of what happens in the context of this specific law so it may not be enough to convince a court that this specific law does more harm than good.

I therefore submit that receiving a material benefit is no less different than the previous, incriminating laws surrounding the act of selling, and can be challenged on the grounds that sex workers are forced to work in unsafe conditions to ensure they get paid.

That's true. It's not illegal to do that job. Only to collect the money.

I beg to differ MPAsquared. They mentioned going after massage parlours about 5 times including yesterday.

To be more specific, they talk about targetting massage only if they act as front for sexual service. Just getting an erotic massage or strip tease with no sexual contact is still legal. Also don't forget that this government talks a lot of garbage. It will be up to every city and law enforcement to decide what they consider a ''sexual service'' for the purpose of enforcement. They don't have any reason to change the standard they have already set in the past. Plain massage and companion services will continue to be licensed. You cannot just outlaw a kind of business because it has the possibility of being a front for something illegal. We would close just about any business in the world.

 

[Brick Top]

I believe the provisions of the bill that most here would be concerned about comes into force, or becomes law in plain language, 30 days after Royal Assent.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Five ministers resigned at the same time, because they didn't get along with the Manitoba Premier. I don't really know more details because I don't care that much about Manitoba politics.


And it is also the most important. It doesn't help if all the rest get thrown out; so long as clients are afraid to buy openly it will be dangerous for the workers.

There is plenty of evidence worldwide that any form of criminalization increases danger for workers (including a recent research in Vancouver.) That is why the UN and World Health Org. advocate decriminalization. That is why the French Senate rejected that kind of law. But of course, no actual data yet of what happens in the context of this specific law so it may not be enough to convince a court that this specific law does more harm than good.


That's true. It's not illegal to do that job. Only to collect the money.


To be more specific, they talk about targetting massage only if they act as front for sexual service. Just getting an erotic massage or strip tease with no sexual contact is still legal. Also don't forget that this government talks a lot of garbage. It will be up to every city and law enforcement to decide what they consider a ''sexual service'' for the purpose of enforcement. They don't have any reason to change the standard they have already set in the past. Plain massage and companion services will continue to be licensed. You cannot just outlaw a kind of business because it has the possibility of being a front for something illegal. We would close just about any business in the world.

Thanks for agreeing with my earlier comment about material benefit, however, what 'companion services' are licensed?

 

[Metalknight]

Not after Royal Assent, but IMHO and personal opinion, enforcement won't happen that fast, if it ever does.

Now I'm reading it'll get Royal Assent tomorrow. Is it 30 days or effective immediately? I did some research online about laws after assent. The way I read it is they set a date or it goes into effect right after assent. Everyone is telling me December. Is that because the old laws expire then?

 

[GPIDEAL]

Now I'm reading it'll get Royal Assent tomorrow. Is it 30 days or effective immediately? I did some research online about laws after assent. The way I read it is they set a date or it goes into effect right after assent. Everyone is telling me December. Is that because the old laws expire then?

People have written that usually, laws take effect 30 days after Royal Assent.

 

[Siocnarf]

Thanks for agreeing with my earlier comment about material benefit, however, what 'companion services' are licensed?

Escorts are licensed in some cities, like Edmonton. In Montreal and Toronto they may not require a special license but they are legitimate business. It's not impossible that more cities will create licensing of escort to put a tighter control on ''human traficking''.

 

[Metalknight]

People have written that usually, laws take effect 30 days after Royal Assent.

Thanks. I saw tweets from the supporters of this bill that it becomes law tomorrow. Reading about this online with effective dates is starting get as bad as looking up health symptoms & every article says it's cancer.

 

[MPAsquared]

Thanks. I saw tweets from the supporters of this bill that it becomes law tomorrow. Reading about this online with effective dates is starting get as bad as looking up health symptoms & every article says it's cancer.

Look up info on gov websites, not journalists. Its in the preamble or amendments or backgrounder, I forget which, but it's in there. Peter MacKay said it as well in the HoC.

 

[Brick Top]

Read the bill. Section 49 I think.

 

[canada-man]

http://mybitchacademy.tumblr.com/post/101930859342/bill-c36-gets-signed-by-the-royal-assent-today

Bill #C36 gets signed by the royal assent today, so now it is the 30 day countdown until the enforcement of the new Canadian sex work laws begins. Which police forces in Canada are going to aggressively enforce these new laws, and which police forces will decide to focus on actual crime?

Which third party advertisers are going to get charged first? Which clients are going to be targeted and arrested? Which street-based workers will get fined or charged for being near a park or school? Which escort agencies or dungeon Headmistresses will get arrested for gaining material benefit from their employees? We all have 30 days to figure out what we are going to do, and have to try and read into the future in terms of how this is going to play out.

As a consenting independent adult who has worked in the adult entertainment industry for well over a decade now, I cannot believe that these religious based, conservative moralist government officials, along with anti-sex work radical feminists, have taken a part of My life which I love, away from Me. And why? Because they want to force their belief systems onto My life and make My job impossible to do without entrapping My clients and coworkers, through the systemic violence of criminalization.

What a bunch of bullies! I am sure they are all rejoicing in their comfy white privileged, upper middle classed homes, patting themselves on the back for their success in their attempts to end sex work.